Probably both. I absolutely believe the numbers being quoted by Troy and others from the 80's and early 90's. I hunted as a guest on a club just west of Macintosh which adjoined the Boykin's private place back in the late 80's. It was on the dmap and there were several really big fields 400x200 (15 acre type stuff) that would always have 75-150 deer come into them pretty much every afternoon. It was actually hard hunting. There were so many deer coming and going that a good one could slip in without you catching him. Dont know how many times I'd be glassing and a buck would have somehow made it out into the middle of the field and be mixed in with 50-60 other deer without me even knowing he was there. It's hard to believe but you really can have too many deer in a field at one time.