This is a follow up to the other thread about "Kids suffering and a Just God". This is long, but it has to be because at the heart of it is something precious and Worthy--Jesus Christ.

Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?
Why Do Children Suffer?
How does a Loving God allow all kinds of Tragedy?

These are some of the toughest questions than men wrestle with. How do we wrap our heads around this…a great, mighty and loving God allowing or maybe even seemingly directing death, disease, suffering and tragedy all around us? All men struggle (have, do and will) with this at some point whether they are believers or unbelievers. In my opinion, the answers to the “why” and “how” we come up with really depend on three CRITICAL views we hold or adopt:

1. What is our view on God…who is He? What are His attributes?
2. Why were we created by God…for what purpose?
3. Do we believe that Satan is the great deceiver and is hell-bent (literally) on waging a spiritual war against all mankind as to keep us from the Truth of God?

How we answer these in our heart of hearts will most likely have the most direct bearing on how we answer the original premise question: Why does God allow bad things to happen to (Fill in the blank)?

Worldview

All of us answer questions in life based on presuppositions which ultimately create within us what is called a “worldview”. Our worldview and understanding direct the answers we find. The three questions above are no exception.

How do we know which world view are we using? A Biblical worldview is 100% based on the Bible and the moving and prompting of the Holy Spirit of God? A secular worldview is based on mankind’s human reasoning, various ideals or philosophies that men have created to explain our existence and our future. Often some people hold a compromised combination of the two—a part that is Biblical meshed with a part of the World. An Atheist for example would view anything Biblical as myth, legend and not derive any value from Scripture. They might say there is some good parts concerning morality, but as a whole the bible isn’t a trusted source of truth. A true Christian on the other hand would hold the view that the Bible is the ultimate source of Truth for all things in life and would base their views and ideas along the lines that God gave to them in Scripture.

To get the true answers to 1-3 we have to go to God and His Word…the foundational source of all Truth. This is the first test in our worldview by default. If we take as truth that the Word of God, known as the Bible, is literally the very Word of God then we will know and understand the TRUE nature of God. If, however, we refuse to acknowledge that the Bible is the actual Word of God, then what it tells us about the very nature of God cannot be seen as leading to Truth. You can’t go any further until this is resolved in your heart.

The rest of what I write will be based from a Biblical Worldview:

Who Do I think God is? What is He like?

Creator: The Bible tells the creation story just how God wanted it told. Do we believe that? If we do then we know that God has Almighty power just in his word alone. We know that Christ was the creator, because Christ was in fact The Word. We also know that everything God created was very good—without blemish—perfect. Genesis 1:31. Today we know that our creation is full of death, disease, suffering, human tragedy, crime, predators, slavery and all kinds of evil.

Holy: The Bible tells us that God is Holy and cannot be in the presence of sin. Do we believe that? If we do, then we know that God is righteous, full of perfection, cannot lie, and cannot have ungodliness in his sight. We’d understand the rebellion of Lucifer and his angels and the impact on the entire course of world history as seen in Genesis. We’d understand that Adam & Eve were in the perfect place in the presence of God in Eden…and they were tempted by Lucifer as the serpent and broke God’s instructions. This introduced sin into the world. Sin that still shapes the world today. From this moment on a Holy God who is the Creator was in the presence of sin which could not continue, so all of mankind fell and a curse was given to all of creation. Which matches his divine holy nature…God cannot be in the presence of sin. Genesis 2 and 3 tells the story. God himself made the first kill in our creation...he killed an animal to cover the naked and ashamed first couple. Hebrews 9:22 tells us that the remission of sin requires a blood sacrifice. God did that first and that is the example and directive for the Jewish sacrifices and for Christ Himself on the cross…sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

God is Omnipotent and Has all Authority: As Creator and Ultimately Holy, God has all power and authority. He spoke our world into existence. Just think about that for a moment. He SPOKE it and it happened. Genesis 1. If God made the world and if God is holy, then isn’t God the ultimate authority over creation and mankind? To this day, God still upholds the earth with the power of his word.

God is Just: God told Adam & Eve that if they ate of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, then they would know death. Genesis 2:17. God made them perfect but gave them consequences if they chose to disobey. A Just God is truthful and God in fact stood by what he said. They sinned they experienced the curse and death as a result. From that original sin, as we are all related to Adam through Noah and his descendants, we too have on us a sin nature. We all sin and fall short of God’s Glory (Romans 3:23, 5:12). Romans 8:22 tells us the whole universe is under the fall. We can see in history and present day, all of the death and calamity. Sin had consequences…death, disease, suffering, strife, emotional and physical illness, fear, evil acts, etc… God set up a perfect world but through sin that perfection became corrupted. Do we recognize the sin in our own lives and hearts? Do we recognize that even our children have a sin nature and are separated from God by this sinful state? Do we trust the Bible when it talks about these things? If we are a sinful people, how can we expect not to be under the curse and fall of creation? If we believe the Bible and God, then we know and we understand…our faith is built up on that because God is more than just… Just.

God is Loving, Merciful and full of Grace: From Genesis to Revelation the very nature and attributes of God are revealed to us as men and women. Even His creation itself tells us of the Divine Nature of God (Romans 1). Do we believe that? Or do we see it as fiction? Time after time throughout history we see God show up and pour out blessings, mercy and grace among the people who are seeking Him, trusting Him, loving Him. Even when they sin and fall short. Mankind rebelled against God. We, today, rebel against God. Just look at our own lives. Broken commandments left and right. If we believe that God is Holy then we know that we have no place with him because we are a broken sinful people. Enter John 3:16—God so loved us sinful people that he sent His son to live as a man, suffer as a man, die an ugly death where the full sin of the entire world (past, present and future) was put onto his shoulders so he could shed his own blood—Holy, Righteous, All Mighty blood—once and for all as the ultimate sacrifice for sin. Talk about Love! Not only that but God gives us this great gift in that process of the cross—salvation through faith by way of grace. There is not just due punishment for sin, there is hope and a future in eternity with Christ—if we truly believe. True belief isn’t about words or deeds, it is about the heart of men—hearts that reflect that Christ lives within them and are obedient to His calling.

God is Trustworthy: The events of the Bible happened as they were written and is evidence by a great physical and human cloud of evidence. We don’t know all things that God knows, but everything that we do know is proven as truthful. Now do we really believe that? Or have we managed to dab a little Bible here and a little secular there—forming our own manmade worldview? Sure is easier that way because of how it makes us feel. Feeling…at the root of it all. Some say God isn’t powerful enough to stop all the bad things. Some say God doesn’t really care or love us. But is that in harmony with Scripture?? The answer is NO! God does allow bad things to happen and God has sent his wrath among people over history. Isn’t that his right as Holy, all Powerful, Mighty Creator to do as He wishes? At the same time, isn’t God being true to his Word that he will remind us that sin has consequences? Time after Time He tells us that if we seek Him and live a life that is pleasing and acceptable to Him then we need not fear the things of this world, for there is True Hope. There are some things we should know for sure. Death of Christ defeated Satan and sin once and for all. 1 Cor 15:54-55 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” Do we trust that Christ was fully god, was alive, died for us and defeated death and rose again? Do we????? If we do then we know that we CAN be reconciled to God through Christ. That this world is but a temporary home…that we can trust in a perfect place with God.

God is Wise and has an Eternal Plan: The Bible tells us that God has ultimate wisdom and a purpose and plan for all things. Do we trust that? Christ is WISDOM according to Proverbs 8. We also read that Christ is the fulfillment of ALL plans. Christ dying on the cross was not a plan B or a reaction by God after sin in the Garden. God had a purpose in place—THE GLORY OF CHRIST. Look at who Christ really is:
• John 1:1-5--In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
• John 1: 14--14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
• John 14:6 where Christ said himself “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.”
• Colossians 1:15-20 (Read this Closely!!!)-- 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
• Colossians 2: 2b-3--to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
• Acts 2: 22-24--22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.

We know that He plans to fully restore the heavens and the earth and the ultimate defeat of death. “God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:4).


Why were we Created…for what purpose?

Oh the mystery! Well ,not really if you have a Biblical worldview in which to answer the question. God isn’t just winging it…he is All-Knowing, the Alpha and Omega. God first loved us and his ultimate desire is for us to Love Him and Worship him. That is the purpose for mankind…that is why we were created…to love and worship our Creator God!
Revelation 4:11 sums it up quite well
“Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”
If that is our purpose, then why do we SO question why the world is how it is? Why do we try to define who God SHOULD be and what he SHOULD be doing? Why do we try and try to paint God into a corner with ideas like “If God was so good, then why did all this bad stuff have to happen?” God is God…The Most High and He created us in HIS IMAGE for one purpose only---to love him and worship Him. Period.

What we try to do is to put our human sin nature influenced understanding on an Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Holy, Righteous, Perfect, True, Just-Loving-Merciful-Gracious God! We declare how we WANT God to be and then argue, fuss, complain, get angry, rebuke, turn away and rebel, scoff, mock, refuse to acknowledge, and harden our hearts. We do that because we do not fully understand who God is. We use our developed worldviews with all kinds of ungodly influences to define God and our existence…and by doing this we fail to hold true to a Biblical Worldview.

Romans 14:17: 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

What happens here today is temporary and not eternal. When we dwell on the fallen-ness of creation we are missing out on the peace, joy, goodness, love and beauty of God.

The only way to correctly understand human suffering and death is to understand two key things: 1. Who God REALLY Is 2. What Is Our Purpose. We can try to do it in other ways and what we get is a humanistic secular view of the world where it is just survival of the fittest. That is not what God created. But what do we believe? How do we act on our belief? The results are very telling. But to really have a deep understanding of the how’s and why’s we have to understand a great interfering influence in our lives.

Satan, The Great Deceiver

Satan first shows up in Genesis where he rebels from God, and tempts Eve and by default Adam. God has just created perfection and Satan was there to try to mess it up. If we believe the Bible of God’s attributes then we know that god created Lucifer and all the fallen angels as well as the “good” angels. He had the power to create and to destroy, as we can see from various ways God shows both. God allowed Satan to do his work. But why? Why would God let his perfection become blemished? This gets deep.

If God is all powerful then he could have made a bunch of puppets that just did whatever he said, right? Billions of creatures in perfect reverence and worship of God. But God chose, from the very beginning a different path…it was his creation so within his right—if we believe his attributes and nature. He gave mankind a sense of freewill (various ideas on this, but let’s just go with the concept in general) so that their hearts would want-desire-wish to love the Lord God and Worship Him. I understand that as a parent myself: I’d rather have my children have a heart of love and obedience than merely just see them do it out of obligation or out of fear or without any choice…I don’t want puppet children. I suspect that God doesn’t either.

But God had a plan: Genesis 3:15 tells us that because of the serpent and Eve that there would be enmity (battle) between Satan and mankind. Not just between man and snakes, but between man and the devil himself. The serpent was embodied by Satan. To this day there is a battle between good and evil.

The goal of Satan, the Devil, is to separate man from God in a futile effort to prevail. He wants us to not trust the Lord…seems kind of similar to what he did with Adam & Eve. Our ultimate sin nature is this sense of self…we trust ourselves more than God, we know things better than God, we have it all figured out! Oh my, how we all struggle with this. The premise of what bad things happen to good people is directly related to our feelings and how we view OUR PLACE in life. Satan has tempted us….confused us…mislead us (so very cunning is he) to the point where WE question GOD! Let that sink in a moment.

For a non-believer who does not think that God is real or one who doesn’t want anything to do with God,---AND EVEN THE PROFESSED CHRISTIAN--- Satan has already most likely gotten his hooks in you on this concept. Satan whispering in your ear…your soul…”If God was so great, why did that sweet, precious, perfect little girl have to be abused by her horrible parents and have to come live at your house? Answer than one for me Mike…your God of Love lets that happen all the time…Why do you still trust him like you do…so weak and pathetic minded….etc….” I’ve been there! “Mike…your son has a kidney disease and will have complications and a transplant later on most likely…your other son has a hearing loss which affects his speech and self worth….Your God works all things out for good does he? How is that going? Bwaaahaaahaaaa”

That is how Satan roles…he aims to deceive. He works us over to think that we are OWED a perfect life and that we should be somehow insulated and protected from all manner of strife, evil, harm or calamity. We think we DESERVE that. So we build our worldview around that and question God.

Oh but how we so often fail to understand….truly understand the real nature of God. We only focus on the parts that serve us well. We only like the good gifts…the easy road. We do not want to be confronted with our own sin nature because it hurts and makes us have to change our ways. We only want to see God as Loving and Protector (which he is)…but that is not all He is.

Our worldview is the filter in which we see the world around us. Will we look through the lens of the Bible or the lens of Satan’s secular world? How we view God—How we view our own Sin—How we view our purpose in life—How we view Satan as an enemy….these will directly impact how we can answer those heart string questions of why bad things happen to kids or good people.

I leave you with this on suffering and the Glory that is to come to those who truly believe.

Romans 8:12-30

12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

We did a study several years ago in our Sunday School class on the book, Why Bad Things Happen to Good People. We concluded that no one can know why God allows anything that we consider bad to happen to anyone and that regardless of who is or is not affected by actions or events that we, as humans, consider bad, at some point in the process sin was involved and God, being Holy and Just, put his Word into action and let the "chips fall where they may", as it were. But we also discovered that without our free will as followers of Christ, there would be no Grace from the Father, no consequences for our actions and therefore, no need for salvation or resurrection.

You fail to comprehend because you fail to see the distinction between the first covenant and the new covenant in the way that God deals with us. You cannot mix the two and have any understanding. I failed in this area for many years.

I recently taught a lesson dealing with this issue. The answer is really simple. However, you must know and understand the Word of God to comprehend this answer.
1) For the glory of God. John11:4
2) So that unbelievers may believe. John 11:15
3) So that we may have a testimony. John 9:4
4) To increase/ purify the faith of believers. 1 Peter 1:6-7, James 1:2-4

GOD LOVES US!


BTW,
Straycat, I really enjoy your Biblical post. I also appreciate that you back your statements with scripture instead of just spouting opinions. The Word is the only truth and every statement must be measured by it.

God makes people sick so that he can get the credit for healing them or so that they can tell people how wonderful he is.

With believers so messed up, there is no wonder atheists want no part of God.

Who are you disagreeing with?

Anyone who thinks God is the one making then sick or that somehow sickness is God's will for them.

Ok, I was getting confused by this: "God makes people sick so that ..."

My attempt at sarcasm.

My attempt of not getting it at all, lol. I see it now, if that helps.

LOL, You must be a lot like me. I'm usually the one that needs the explanation.

Sickness isn't part of God's will?

So when God sent the bears down to kill the 42 boys for calling Elisha "baldhead", did it help Elisha's testimony or help non-believers to believe? I wouldn't think it increased His glory, but it may have purified some believers faith?


I have all kinds of questions. When I was young, people told me to study the Bible and all the answers were in there, but I think it was a cop out, and I got more questions and not so many answers.

You have to be able to rightly divide the word of truth. I believe the major part of that is understanding the differences and dividing the old covenant from the new covenant.

Under old testament law, man had a part and God had a part, when man sinned they suffered the curse. Even then God made a way through sacrifice to protect men from sin( the breaking of the law).

Under the new covenant, the only part man plays is faith. This new covenant is not between us and God. It is between Jesus and God. We are just adopted in through grace, by faith to be joint heirs with Christ.

There is no longer any curse to suffer because of sin. God is not holding our trespasses against us any longer because Jesus has paid the price for them all.

The Bible tells us a lot about the true nature of God. Lots of great examples in its pages. But there are also many mysteries and many questions we might have without any real answers.

For me one of the most important aspects is to realize, understand and accept that God is SOVEREIGN. What does sovereignty look like?

Psalms 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Isaiah 46:10
‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

Daniel 4: 34-35
for his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
and his kingdom endures from generation to generation;
35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
and he does according to his will among the host of heaven
and among the inhabitants of the earth;
and none can stay his hand
or say to him, “What have you done?”

We can trust that God is in control and that He has a purpose in everything that He directs to happens or will use the things that He allows to happen to advance His purposes.

Scripture tells us that God sometimes used death or sickness or some event as punishment or lesson, as a warning, for refining, or for opening the eyes of people. Scripture also tells us that the result of sin is our fallen world that is full of death, disease, suffering, crime, etc... Scripture shows where God allows that to happen according to His will. Yet He is in control as He wishes. We as humans are not capable of that full understanding.

Yet we have hope because God also shows us His great love, mercy and grace. He promises us that he will work out all things for good for those that love Him. That doesn't mean we will not get sick or not die, it means that God in His Wisdom will work it out for good according to His Purpose. We always must remember that God loved us first...so much that He sent His son to die for us. We as sinful fallen creatures have a great gift offered to us by a loving Father...salvation. Yes, God will judge and God will work things out as He wishes...but we can always know that God loves us.

If we really look closely we will see that Christ is the center. His death paid the price for all the sin. The creation still groans and the curse still exists as we can see in the fact that we get sick, people die and thee is evil in the world. But Christ overcame death and through that we are no longer slaves to sin...we who truly believe are forgiven and justified...children of the Most High God.

It is hard to understand the complexity sometimes. I like to think I have some of it figured out but there are many times where all I have is a long list of questions. But God knows our hearts and minds...He knows we have questions. And He gives us the perfect plan to handle that...meditation and prayer and Scripture and the Holy Spirit.

Romans 3: 21-26
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

What I think He really wants from us is for us to surrender to Him---Love Him, Worship Him, Seek Him and let his presence in our lives flow over into others so that they may come to know him by knowing us. When we can do that, his peace and his understanding makes things right within us so we don't have to worry or fret over those complex issues.

Philippians 4:4-9
4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand; 6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. 9 What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me—practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

You all are right on. This is been one of the best explanation.
I have never thought about dividing the covenant that is so true. Blessing to all

While I will agree that I will never know all things about God, I do not like to take the attitude that whatever happens is because God wanted it to happen and he had some grand purpose in it that I just can't understand.

I do know God's will in many areas simply because he has told me in his word. Some things happen because we live in a fallen world and men have free will and make bad choices.

I do believe that God will try to bring about good from any bad situation but that doesn't mean that he orchestrated things so that the bad situation would happen.

Where is the chapter about dividing the covenant?

I don't think that God wants evil to happen, for people to sin or for bad things to happen. He does love us greatly after all. But I know that he allows evil to exist...he allows people to sin...he allows bad things to happen. The All Knowing, all Mighty, All Powerful, Ever Present nature of God tells me he could stop whatever he wanted to stop. He is Sovereign! He Is Purposeful and Perfect! But these things still occur.

Many get hung up on this and try to figure it out. I spent a number of years approaching it like that. This is where deep Bible study will reveal to us what we NEED to know about the nature of God, His covenants, and many of His purposes. We will gain understanding, gain wisdom, gain insight that we can apply to our lives and impart to others. But we cannot know in entirety.

1 Corinthians 13:12
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

So I have to let go of my own marginal understanding (lean not) and just trust God. Trust Him in His promises.

Hebrews chapters 8,9 for one place. Look particularly at Heb.8:7 and 13.

I can find more later if you like, my kids want to make brownies right now.