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Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF #612977
06/21/13 01:13 PM
06/21/13 01:13 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
Florence, AL
Jack Fate Offline OP
4 point
Jack Fate  Offline OP
4 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
Florence, AL
I just received my July issue of AON magazine. I thumb through and what do I find? Beginning on page 28, there is an article describing how employees of the WFF are hunting and killing does at night, with the aid of spotlights. There is even a picture of this occuring in the magazine. They are doing this in the name of finding out when the does have been bred in a n effort to extend deer seasons in more counties.

Is this legal?

Section 9-11-231 allows for the collection of protected wild animals for scientific purposes by obtaining a permit from the Commisioner, but it doesn't say that the other game laws may be broken to do this.


I Have Stood Next To Death, and People Liked Him Better



Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #612978
06/21/13 01:22 PM
06/21/13 01:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,816
Hampton Cove
foldemup Online content
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foldemup  Online Content
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Hampton Cove
I'm sure it's okay, because they only shot does mad

Last edited by foldemup; 06/21/13 01:22 PM.

If you want to always win, never play anyone better than you!
Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #612983
06/21/13 01:50 PM
06/21/13 01:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 32,627
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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2Dogs  Offline
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Boxes Cove
People would be shocked at how many were killed by hired guns last Summer at Bellefonte Nuclear Plant. Won't let them be hunted in season, but will hire gunslingers to shoot them in summer. These deer were killed for crowd control, not fetal studies.

Last edited by 2Dogs; 06/21/13 02:41 PM.


"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #612984
06/21/13 02:05 PM
06/21/13 02:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,420
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
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alabama
USDA holds "Scientific collection" permits that they use to shoot deer at night to reduce population numbers on specific properties. They do this without notifing the Montgomery DCNR office or the local GWs. Since when does population reduction and scientific collection mean the same thing??? Since when do we allow the Federal government (USDA) to kill Alabama resident game (DEER) at the request of private enterprises with the knowledge of DCNR???


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

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Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #612986
06/21/13 02:07 PM
06/21/13 02:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 345
Dothan, AL
REALTREEZ71 Offline
mature 4 point
REALTREEZ71  Offline
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Dothan, AL
Game Warden and biologist have been doing this around here on private farms that are on state regulated management programs for a while around here. I know of them doing at least 10-15 years ago.


Life is Simple:
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Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: BhamFred] #612991
06/21/13 02:19 PM
06/21/13 02:19 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
Florence, AL
Jack Fate Offline OP
4 point
Jack Fate  Offline OP
4 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
Florence, AL
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
USDA holds "Scientific collection" permits that they use to shoot deer at night to reduce population numbers on specific properties. They do this without notifing the Montgomery DCNR office or the local GWs. Since when does population reduction and scientific collection mean the same thing??? Since when do we allow the Federal government (USDA) to kill Alabama resident game (DEER) at the request of private enterprises with the knowledge of DCNR???


Wow! I had not heard of this going on either. I don't think scientific collection has anything to do with population control either.

Question though..how did they get the permit if they haven't notified Montgomery? Or did they just permit themselves?


I Have Stood Next To Death, and People Liked Him Better



Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: REALTREEZ71] #612992
06/21/13 02:20 PM
06/21/13 02:20 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
Florence, AL
Jack Fate Offline OP
4 point
Jack Fate  Offline OP
4 point
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Posts: 678
Florence, AL
Originally Posted By: REALTREEZ71
Game Warden and biologist have been doing this around here on private farms that are on state regulated management programs for a while around here. I know of them doing at least 10-15 years ago.


Doesn't make it legal though.


I Have Stood Next To Death, and People Liked Him Better



Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613050
06/21/13 04:19 PM
06/21/13 04:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 9,949
Central, Al
Bustinbeards Online content
14 point
Bustinbeards  Online Content
14 point
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Posts: 9,949
Central, Al
It's perfectly legal............till Mr Green Jeans shows up laugh


Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote
Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes
On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613060
06/21/13 04:27 PM
06/21/13 04:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
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Warrior River Country
Code of Alabama 1975

Section 9-2-6
Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources - Powers and duties generally.

All functions and duties of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources shall be exercised by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources acting by himself or by and through such administrative divisions or such officers or employees as he may designate. The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall have all power and authority necessary or convenient to carry out the functions and duties of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. In the performance of such functions and duties and in the exercise of such powers and authorities, the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources and all other officers and employees of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources shall, however, be subject to all legal restrictions, limitations and conditions and penalties, civil and criminal, with respect to the performance of such functions and duties and the exercise of such powers and authorities.

(Acts 1939, No. 162, p. 255, 7; Code 1940, T. 8, 6.)

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613076
06/21/13 04:39 PM
06/21/13 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,573
Moss Creek
Gotcha1 Offline
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Moss Creek
How in the heck are they going to get conception dates without killing does?
They have a key to our place and we hope they get the 10 does for a study from us or another place or 2.
Pretty hard to get this information based on a guess.


Matt Brock wears knock-off Crocs.
Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613097
06/21/13 05:09 PM
06/21/13 05:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,765
Under a Rock
Clem Offline
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Clem  Offline
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Under a Rock
How do y'all think some fetal conception studies are done? Magic? Vaginal probes and sonar down at the Whitetail Clinic?

Been going on a long time throughout the state.

Last edited by Clem; 06/21/13 05:10 PM.

"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Gotcha1] #613102
06/21/13 05:14 PM
06/21/13 05:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
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Warrior River Country
Originally Posted By: Gotcha1
How in the heck are they going to get conception dates without killing does?
They have a key to our place and we hope they get the 10 does for a study from us or another place or 2.
Pretty hard to get this information based on a guess.


If you want to do something that is against the law, you either get the law changed to allow it or you violate the law and become a criminal.

How hard is that to understand?

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Clem] #613106
06/21/13 05:16 PM
06/21/13 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
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Warrior River Country
Originally Posted By: Clem
How do y'all think some fetal conception studies are done? Magic? Vaginal probes and sonar down at the Whitetail Clinic?

Been going on a long time throughout the state.


We expect them to be done within the law like everything else.

Nothing magic about it.

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: REALTREEZ71] #613118
06/21/13 05:29 PM
06/21/13 05:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,342
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
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Jasper, AL
Originally Posted By: REALTREEZ71
Game Warden and biologist have been doing this around here on private farms that are on state regulated management programs for a while around here. I know of them doing at least 10-15 years ago.


They did this as early as the early 80's in and around Prattville.

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613119
06/21/13 05:29 PM
06/21/13 05:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,765
Under a Rock
Clem Offline
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Clem  Offline
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Perhaps they are within the law and y'all are making a deal about something you don't know about but think you do.

Or maybe they're just blatantly violating the law agin' like the commissioner and CAB and others have done for 40 years and no one's said boo! Oh my!

C'mon. Y'all get some common sense.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Clem] #613131
06/21/13 06:01 PM
06/21/13 06:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 32,627
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: Clem
How do y'all think some fetal conception studies are done? Magic? Vaginal probes and sonar down at the Whitetail Clinic?



Vaginal probes, Whitetail clinic laugh



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Clem] #613133
06/21/13 06:22 PM
06/21/13 06:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
Booner
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Warrior River Country
Originally Posted By: Clem
Perhaps they are within the law and y'all are making a deal about something you don't know about but think you do.

Or maybe they're just blatantly violating the law agin' like the commissioner and CAB and others have done for 40 years and no one's said boo! Oh my!

C'mon. Y'all get some common sense.


Common sense tells me that any time a government agency is allowed to thumb its nose at the limits set for it by law we have problems that will only get worse.

The DCNR was not delegated authority to micro-manage any certain wildlife species. It is allowed by law to manage wildlife in designated wildlife management areas, and to implement special rules necessary or desirable for such management.

The attempts at micro-management of deer herds statewide by the DCNR is a recent divergence from its defined functions and duties in the law:


Quote:
Section 9-11-301
Fixing of boundaries; promulgation of special rules and regulations for management and protection of areas.

The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources is authorized to fix such boundaries and promulgate such special rules and regulations for the management and protection of wildlife management areas as may be necessary or desirable. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, he is specifically authorized to set up for any wildlife management area special open and closed seasons on game animals, game birds and fish, to establish the amount of the fees to be collected for the privilege of hunting and fishing during any open season, to collect such fees and to authorize their collection by designated employees of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, to require the possession of a special permit when hunting or fishing within wildlife management areas, and to limit the number of permits to be issued during any open season to such members as he may direct.

(Acts 1939, No. 668, p. 1061, 2; Code 1940, T. 8, 110(2).)





Quote:
We recognize that "interpretations of an act by the administrative agency charged with its enforcement, though not conclusive, are to be given great weight by the reviewing court." Hulcher v. Taunton, 388 So. 2d 1203, 1206 (Ala. 1980). However, "[a]n administrative agency cannot usurp legislative powers or contravene a statute." Ex parte Jones Mfg. Co., 589 So. 2d 208, 210 (Ala. 1991).

"An administrative interpretation of long standing is normally entitled to favorable consideration by the courts, but `... this rule of construction is to be laid aside where it seems reasonably certain that the administrator's interpretation has been erroneous and that a different construction is required by the language of the statute.'Boswell v. Abex Corp., 294 Ala. 334, 336, 317 So. 2d 317, 318 (1975)."

Sand Mountain Bank v. Albertville Nat'l Bank, 442 So. 2d 13, 18 (Ala. 1983). In this case, the language of the applicable statutory provisions conflicts with Lambert's implicit interpretation of those provisions. Therefore, the language of the statutory provisions must prevail. Id.


PLEASURE ISLAND v. SHPDA 38 So. 3d 739 - Ala: Court of Civil Appeals 2008

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613138
06/21/13 07:06 PM
06/21/13 07:06 PM
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Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
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Booner
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Warrior River Country
Originally Posted By: Jack Fate
Originally Posted By: REALTREEZ71
Game Warden and biologist have been doing this around here on private farms that are on state regulated management programs for a while around here. I know of them doing at least 10-15 years ago.


Doesn't make it legal though.




As quoted above:

Quote:
"An administrative interpretation of long standing is normally entitled to favorable consideration by the courts, but `... this rule of construction is to be laid aside where it seems reasonably certain that the administrator's interpretation has been erroneous and that a different construction is required by the language of the statute.'Boswell v. Abex Corp., 294 Ala. 334, 336, 317 So. 2d 317, 318 (1975)."

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: 49er] #613139
06/21/13 07:14 PM
06/21/13 07:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
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Booner
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Warrior River Country
The exceptions that were written by our legislature are contained within the statute itself.

Where is the exception to hunt alligators at night?

Where is the constitutional amendment that authorizes a lottery to determine who may hunt alligators at night?

Where does the statute define legal hunting hours as "daylight hours only" as stated in the Commissioner's publications?


Code of Alabama 1975

Quote:
Section 9-11-235
Taking, etc., of protected birds or animals, raccoons or opossums at night; nighttime hunting of foxes with dogs.

It shall be unlawful, except as to trapping as otherwise provided by law, for a person to take, capture, or kill, or attempt to take, capture, or kill any bird or animal protected by the laws of this state between sunset and daylight of the following day, except that the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources may by a duly promulgated regulation, allow the taking, catching, or killing of raccoons and opossums between sunset and daylight in any county or counties within the state. In any county where the taking, catching, or killing of raccoons and opossums is permitted during nighttime hours by regulations of the commissioner, the animals may only be legally taken with the use of a light and/or a shotgun using shot no larger than number eight, and the person or persons so hunting shall be accompanied by a dog or dogs and, if hunting on the lands of another, shall have the written permission of the landowner.

Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a Class B misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished for the first offense by a fine of not less than two thousand dollars ($2,000) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) and may be imprisoned in the county jail for a period not to exceed six months. In addition, the court shall revoke all hunting license privileges for a period of three years from the date of conviction.

No provision of this section shall be construed to prohibit the nighttime hunting of foxes with dogs.

(Acts 1935, No. 383, p. 813, 5; Code 1940, T. 8, 86; Acts 1949, No. 662, p. 1026, 1; Acts 1953, No. 767, p. 1028, 1; Acts 1982, No. 82-488, p. 811, 1; Acts 1995, No. 95-215, p. 252, 2; Act 2008-384, p. 714, 1.)


Are you getting my drift here , Clem??

Re: Hunting At Night Conducted by WFF [Re: Jack Fate] #613196
06/22/13 04:09 AM
06/22/13 04:09 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
T
timbercruiser Offline
Freak of Nature
timbercruiser  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
I don't have a problem with shooting a few does in the summer for scientific purposes like conception dates, but it seems THEY LOSE THE COLLECTED INFORMATION EVERY DANG YEAR. You would think in 30 or so years they would know what the approximate breeding dates are in each area, or they could just ask ask 10 or so hunters and they could tell them.

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