It's hard for people who claim to be conservatives to defend such left-wing abuses of government in their own favor ain't it Shaw?

You don't have to go to Washington to find it... Montgomery is full of it.

While you're banging your head on the wall, think about how little it affects you if I am "allowed" to hunt with a firearm during "bow season" on property you will likely never even see.

You would still be free to hunt any way you please on your property with your bow hunting buddies. It's all about freedom to make our own choices. Limit yourselves in any way you want to and I wouldn't mind that a bit.

Motto of the State of Alabama:

Audemus jura nostra defendere [We Dare Defend Our Rights]

Good hunting anyhow,
Eddie

49er, no, I don't want you banned. You have your opinions and I don't "always" agree with you and your opinions are not offensive.

The limb analogy or parity and 24/7/365 was related to you wanting deer season open for that same timeframe and that cracking limbs without regard would lead to a diminished tree population. The analogy was a stretch.

Anyway 49er, you want year round hunting season and I, along with most everyone else, are against that.

Also 49er... here's the flaw in your reasoning: All you can think about is YOUR right to hunt. You give no consideration to the health of the species you're hunting. The poor doe that just gave birth to, possibly two fawns, would get shot by you in September leaving the fawns to die of starvation or the hen woodduck you'd shoot while she's got several newly hatched ducklings in a hollow tree.

See 49er, it's all about you. Why don't you consider the wildlife you're hunting?

Let me rephrase my example.... because you have zero concern with sex ratios and for some reason, killing a truckload of 1.5 - 2.5 year old 6 points is a big deal to you, your sex ratio would be way off so only a small percentage of does would be bred on their cycle because there are few bucks so your fawns would be pushed back to being born in October and November.

49er, you're a consumer without regard for conservation. At least that's my take.

I am sure you will revert to your typical condescending/pompous responses and I have to admit your ASPCA/HSUS sounding pitch is even lower than I thought you could go (a fawn wandering aimlessly looking for his mother that mean old 49er killed, a starving duckling flailing and unable to swim or fly because heartless 49er killed his mother).

But no, actually some of us are having trouble understanding why a deer killed with a bow in October (or with a muzzleloader in November) is any different or deader than a deer would be if it was killed with a rifle in October/November.

Or why the state trusts muzzleloader hunters to do the right during the last week of archery/muzzleloading season but doesn't trust centerfire hunters? Heck, they even trust kids with firearms for 4 days during archery season, so why not grown-ups?

If the preservation of the species is threatened, close the season. 49er has thoroughly pointed out that action is within the legal purview of the state. If depredation permits can be issued, why can't hunters hunt and keep the meat? Obviously the local herd can take the pressure or the state wouldn't allow, right? If there are enough deer to kill with bows for 6 weeks, why restrict the weapon. It ain't freaking rocket science were talking about; it's making living deer become dead deer, that is the name of the game.

Bucktrot since you seem know so much about what Eddie kills, why don't you post them up, you can even start a new thread since this one has been hijacked several times already. I don't know that I have ever seen 49er post any of his kills or his management philosophy other than his saying his club works with a biologist to set harvest/kill goals for their herd on their land. Since he doesn't have the same herd as you have wherever you hunt or I have on the 400 acre bow-only (gasp!) tract of land I have sole permission to hunt in Limestone County, his argument is that it doesn't make sense for the State to dictate a one-size fits-none philosophy of game management. The state says it is all right to kill 3 bucks a year with 2 bucks of choice but at least one of the 3 has to have at least 4 points on one side - do you seriously consider that sound and wise management?

Again, Bucktrot's response in red.
WMD in black.

Make sure to hit the down arrow in the inside box.

And, I do have a pretty good sense of humor so before the "get yer popcorn" responses come out this is my last response to WMD or 49er.





I take back why antlers were such a big deal. My dad, who was born in 1923 in South Alabama didn't kill a deer until he was much much older and turkey's were rare as well. I remember him and I sitting on a deer stand while dog-deer hunting and him drilling into my head about conservation and why we don't shoot does (back then). He talked about his participation in turkey restoration and turkeys in pens and only feeding the turkeys at night so they wouldn't associate humans with food and releasing some of them into the wild. I remember thinking that if someone shot a doe, they were going straight to hell. Does were the livelyhood of future deer populations and one buck could service many does so the herd could afford to have bucks killed.

Anyway, that was the best information he had to go on. Things have changed and our herd has changed. However, one thing has not changed and that's my dad's hope that he would instill a basic foundation of conservation in his son and that we make decisions on the best available information that benefits wildlife and put's our desire to shoot and kill second. That's true for medicine and everything else we as human strive to improve. Education and a desire for preservation... it's all we have to go on and I put the welfare and future preservation of game above my desire to burn powder or release 100 gr broadhead. And WMD, I am A LOT less judgmental on what you kill than you would like to portray me.

No you are a lightning rod because you a pompous, arrogant hunter who demeans anybody that doesn't hunt like you or have the same standards as you, but then couch it in terms of what is best for the herd and/or in the name of conservation. Or you come back in a subsequent post and blame it on your passion for protecting wildlife or something else to deflect attention from your true views as put forth in your initial statement(s).

I haven't said a thing about year round hunting aside from commenting on ad hominem attacks on 49ers posts. I, like BSK, just would prefer it to be weapon of choice during the currently prescribed deer season.

Since you know so much about how I hunt, tell you what pal, you post up your deer kills for the the last ten years (5 years if you want pictures, because I only have digital picts back to 2008) and I will post up mine. Then you can see how wrong you usually are when you start spouting off about what YOU THINK somebody believes or practices.

One other thing, if you are killing game animals out of season you are a law-breaker and an outlaw no better than somebody shooting deer at night or turkeys in the fall where the season is closed. I hope you get caught and I would turn you in myself if I had the proof of when and where you were breaking Alabama game laws. So don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back because YOU think YOU are protecting a species that YOU think is more important of protection or conservation, you are an outlaw, plain and simple. Don't like the rule start a movement to get it changed. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

FYI, I am member of QDMA and NWTF, too, but I don't believe in forcing my views and standards on others because at the end of the day it just doesn't matter.

Bucktrot in red.
WMD in black.

Wow, WMD. You're really getting worked up about this aren't you? Stick with facts and not accusations. Please know that my voice, if I were saying this, would be of calm demeanor and respect.

And, dang it, I said I wouldn't respond but I am. The popcorn crowd may have been right to stop popping it.

[/quote] [/quote]

No you are a lightning rod because you a pompous, arrogant hunter who demeans anybody that doesn't hunt like you or have the same standards as you, but then couch it in terms of what is best for the herd and/or in the name of conservation. As stated and with all due respect to you WMD... I don't give a chit what you shoot WMD on your land. I'd rather you take into consideration a conservation approach but as long as you're not on public land, I don't really care. Or come back in a subsequent post and blame it on your passion for protecting wildlife or something else to deflect attention from you true views as put forth in your initial statement(s).

I haven't said a thing about year round hunting aside from commenting on ad hominem attacks on 49ers posts. LOL! WMD, you said this in this thread as it relates to a twelve month deer season! WMD said: If the preservation of the species is threatened, close the season. 49er has thoroughly pointed out that action is within the legal purview of the state. [color:#000000]

I can't get this sentence to be black so this is what WMD said even though it's red: I, like BSK, just would prefer it to be weapon of choice during the currently prescribed deer season.

You point to BSK as a resource and BSK agrees with me and others. BSK himself said that a hunter should harvest from the property no more than what the property can absorb or harvest what your objectives are. If you want to shoot all 1.5 yr old 4 points, I do not care WMD!!! I won't condemn you. Go shoot three 1.5 yr year old bucks and be done with your season if you want WMD and I promise, I don't care!! Shoot what you want on your private land. I'll address my coon killing position later!

Since you know so much about how I hunt, I don't know how you hunt, WMD and if it's on private land, I don't care! But according to a post earlier, YOU said that "if the preservation of the species is threatened, close the season". So what it appears you're saying is that you want a twelve month deer season and if "the species" is threatened, close the season. So NO! I do NOT agree with that and I can only go on what you type, WMD! How dare I challenge you, right? you what pal, you post up your deer kills for the the last ten years (5 years if you want pictures, because I only have digital picts back to 2008) and I will post up mine. Then you can see how wrong you usually are when you start spouting off about what YOU THINK somebody believes or practices. I'm giggling now!! WMD, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU HAVE KILLED! Why do you think I do?!?! I don't have to prove anything to you and you don't have to prove anything to me because I do NOT care WMD! I am chuckling.

One other thing, if you are killing game animals out of season you (you're talking about coons (you're throwing mud again) but you're trying to position it that I'm killing "game animals" out of season. The last coon I shot was the last weekend of deer season and I shot it with my bow one afternoon. So if I shoot a coon at night, that's as bad as shooting a deer at night? Really? Well, think that, then!!! WMD, I don't care if you think the two are the same. I shoot coons when I can if it's safe to do so as in not dangerous to livestock, pets, private property or people. That's just my honest position. Go ahead, paint me as an outlaw. are a law-breaker and an outlaw no better than somebody shooting deer at night or turkeys in the fall where the season is closed. I hope you get caught and I would turn you in myself if I had the proof of when and where you were breaking Alabama game laws. So don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back because YOU think YOU are protecting a species that YOU think is more important of protection or conservation, you are an outlaw, plain and simple. I think most turkey hunters and duck hunters would back me on this one, but I may be wrong, but cast a stone if you wish, WMD. Don't like the rule start a movement to get it changed. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

FYI, I am member of QDMA and NWTF, too, That's great, WMD. Glad to see you're interested in postive wildlife mgmt! but I don't believe in forcing my views and standards on others because at the end of the day it just doesn't matter. [/quote] No WMD. You're wrong in that your voice does matter!! Every American has a right to voice his or her opinion. I'm not for restricting your voice/opinion. You'd unfairly paint me as such. I'm not forcing my beliefs on you, WMD. I am just stating that I don't believe in an open 12 month deer season and that there needs to be bag limits and seasons and it is my belief that all hunters should abide by hunting ethics set forth by game law that ensures a future of hunting and the species. Collectively, we're all responsible. Now I do not think that our system is 100% foolproof as it is my opinion that some of the decision making boards are made up of people whose one and only reason why they're sitting on the board has more to do with $ than conservation experience. That's just my opinion.

WMD, I try to kill every coon, yote and hog I see. I give passes to foxes and bobcats (no good reason, it's just my choice as I like watching them) but you're welcome to kill them if you'd like and I won't complain or look down on you.

WMD, do you really want to have me arrested for killing too many raccoons or shooting one out of season? If so, man, you've got some major anger issues towards me.

Bucktrot - your words in red pal, not mine, "And to tell you the truth, I shoot coons and hogs without regard for the law. I don't even know how many or when I can or can't shoot coons but if I see one, I shoot it for reasons most of us on this forum understand." I just don't like killing stuff just to kill it whether it be a snake, armadillo, coon, bobcat, or coyote, but that's just me. Keep doing it if its legal, no bashing from me. I wish the fur market would rebound so more folks would want to kill some of the aforementioned and do something with them besides just leaving them dead in the woods.

N2TRKYS and ElkHunter made the jump from weapon of choice during any open deer season equating to wanting year round deer season, when my initial comment (to which BSK concurred) was that it shouldn't matter what weapon is used to kill deer in Alabama from 10/15-01/31, as long as you follow the limits stated in the current rule/reg/law. You made the even more ridiculous jump that we just want to shoot 1.5 and 2.5 y.o. bucks and let fawns and duckling die.

No I am not advocating for a year round season statewide and I don't think 49er is either. He was just pointing out that it is in the power of the state to close deer season but it makes no legal/moral sense to close it in an area if the population is such that it is damaging the environment (thus requiring depredation permits where the killer has to leave the animals on the ground for the coyotes and other scavengers - although they got to eat too). I hunt about 25 days a season and am usually ready for it be over long before 1/31 but keep going because my 11 year old likes to hunt more than I do.

Since I don't get on here and thump my chest about how I only kill a certain number of a certain age class of buck you or anybody else on here wouldn't know that I have killed 11 bucks in the last 10 years, one was a 1.5 y.o., the rest have been 3+ with several being 4+. So, what one believes and practices versus what one thinks others should be able to practice that we seem to agree on (probably 49er too, but I have never seen him post what he and his club kills), although some of your statements don't always convey that. It is often your broad brush with hyperbole that comes across as arrogance that I disagree with.

WMD, the only thing I have suggested is that hunters take into consideration the wildlife when enjoying the resource. I will condemn poachers and hunters who kill without regard so that they can brag about how many deer or ducks or whatever they kill.

I have always been an advocate for allowing young hunters to shoot whatever.

I have NEVER EVER stated on this forum or bragged about how many and what kind of bucks I've killed. To be honest, I'm disappointed that I haven't killed more mature bucks but yes, I bow hunt mature bucks and I don't apologize for it. That's just what I do.

When you and 49er jump on the QDMA I will defend this organization to the end. The QDMA manages like its name and that's Quality as a quality deer herd and when hunters put bragging rights ahead of herd health, yeah, I'll chime in. There is no doubt that a heavily skewed doe population with a heavily hunted buck population results in an unhealthy deer herd and all the reasons for a more balanced sex ratio just makes sense. You may not like a member of the QDMA but so shoot the messenger not the ideology.

So, yes, I'm in favor of "management" for herd health. Call it pompous or insincere but my reasoning for management isn't because I ONLY want record book bucks. Yes, I hunt in clubs where we manage for at least 3 yr old bucks and 4 yr olds would be better and we try to keep our sex ratio in balance. But I am NOT in favor of hell, fire and damnation to the hunter that makes a mistake and shoots a younger buck. We all make mistakes and I am likely to make one myself. I am in favor of kids being able to experience a kill of any size. I'm not so blinded by inches of antlers that I can't see the broad enjoyment of hunting and being in nature.

I'm not arrogant nor an elitist but I do loath the hunter that "takes" and doesn't give back and I make no apologies for that. And, I'm not for calling out a hunter for taking a 2 yr old buck. You never know the circumstances and if he or she is happy, then I am happy.

Reading what you've killed over the last several years, it sounds like you're being very selective on what you shoot and I'm not going to question your sincerity on that. You have a son and I would never question what he shoots.

This is what I truly believe: "Be a conscientious "manager" of wildlife; not an unconcerned consumer of it!" If you (and I don't mean you, WMD) don't respect wildlife and hunting conservation, then I have no use for you. If you're willing to take from our natural resources, then be willing to give back too.

I'm sincere in that stance and I think it's the only thing that the general public will accept as hunters are such a small part of the "voting" population.

Two years ago, I shot a 127" eight point in IL on "public land" with my bow and was proud as I could be. Hunting public land? That's not an elitist or arrogant hunter. I'm pretty laid back and I am sorry if I have sounded pompous.

Glad to hear that you don't support a 12 month deer season as when Jan 31st gets here, I'm glad the season is over.



Oh, WMD, I still am going to shoot every coon I see! And if I see a hog this summer on my property and it happens to be at night.... well, I might put a hunk of lead in him.

Sorry folks for taking over this thread while WMD and I discuss our views. I'd like to think that WMD and I have more in common than we first thought.

I just checked in this post and figured something went awyry after 5 pages. Damn, I thought this forum was over the crossbow teenage years.

I am over it. But, this thread has taken about 10 turns since it was started. LOL

When is handgun season?

Two weeks after Spear Season, and just before Wet Noodle Season. April, I think.

only a narrow minded person sees the "crossbow thing" as a one time happening...

the CABs handling of the fall turkey season attempted closures shows the still ongoing probs with the CAB.

The CAB tried to ram the crossbow issue down our throats without popular hunter support and have tried to do the same thing with the fall closures. The CAB was set up to take input from citizen hunters and pass it on to the DCNR. Now the make up their own ideas and push em on the DCNR as if the great populace wanted those things done. Long way from the truth AND the reason the CAB was set up.

Handgun season is all year in Bham Barry.......

Absolutely!

ok i have no beef with deer season, starting for archery 3 deer per year no guns, none archery only no matter who you are a nice long deer season with stick& string.

now it looks like i need to buy a recurve if i am not allowed to use my compound. is that fair on a fixed in come can't drive. got to buy a different bow to hunti don't have a hand cannon to use but you should not use firearms during archery season, just use a 100 yard acurate crossbow. instead can we get a concealed carry permit for a crossbow?

Why would you want to conceal your crossbow, Blackhawk?

I don't conceal my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Long Colt when I hunt with it.

If I use it to hunt deer with during bow season, what harm have I caused the bow hunting liberals who whine about it? I bet they would never know the difference would they?