Its mind blowing to me that we are studying something like a dominant gobbler theory and making season date adjustments based on such all while the impact of corn on racoon populations is barely even mentioned much less being studied…..It makes it really hard to take the “process” seriously……..If we we’re really trying to figure out what’s impacting turkey populations then you would think this would be setting an alarm off like on a nuclear submarine.

That doesn't fit their narrative

$$$$$$$$

It goes back to the same thing I was talking about with deer and letting $$$ be the driving force…..I’m sure the truth is that no one wants to talk about how corn is inflating coon populations because that isnt good for the dollar……But if this is how we’re gonna operate, at some point we’re gonna look around and nothing we’re doing will make biological sense anymore……I mean dang it, if we’re trying to figure out why turkey populations are going down and we’re gonna ignore the fact that we’re supplementally feeding the hell out of their biggest nest raider…..then maybe we’re already reaching that point of absurdity. At some point folks gotta start saying “Heeeeey, wait a minute……

Listen to that podcast I posted and Dr Lashley talk about the impact human feeding had on other predator populations in some of the studies he looked up…..It wasn’t just a little bit…..It was 6 or 7 times as many…..Could you imagine if we’re creating 6-7 times as many coons with baiting all while acting like we cant figure out why the turkey population isnt what it used to be??......

CNC, somewhat related to feeding, and another contributor to excessive harvest in some places, is the fact that a LOT of turkeys are being killed with their wings dragging wheat or milo seeds. It blows my mind how many ground blinds I’ve seen lately with a seed pile within 20 yards and a cell camera. It don’t matter if the dominant gobbler theory is fact or fiction, if 50% of small landowners are hunting turkeys this way. A lot of the blame, IMO, lies with the precedent set by the agency by permitting bait for deer with a permit. “People aren’t differentiating the difference. It’s ok for deer, so it must be ok to do this too, even though they haven’t technically made it legal” mentality. Some of you who aren’t accustomed to land ownership patterns in north AL may not be able to see how this is so critical, but it’s not sustainable. I bet half the turkeys killed up here so far have been on bait.

Corn only bunches coons up at a feeder. It's not making them breed faster!

The amount of corn being put out is insane….There’s an estimated 235,000 deer hunters….I rarely ever track for someone not baiting but lets be conservative and say that 50,000 of those hunters put out 20 bags of corn each season…. …..That alone comes out to 50 million pounds ……How many extra coons does 50 million pounds of corn produce statewide??

Don’t get me wrong………I’m not really trying to bash the dominant gobbler theory…..Its the fact that we’re reaching that far down in the bucket to find something to blame things on when something as glaringly obvious as coons and corn is staring us right in the face……. At some point how can you even act like there’s a legitimate conversation about to be had about this other stuff when there’s an elephant in the room of that proportion that’s being ignored??......It’s like “Are you serious Clark?”

The way we’re going about it is probably the worst possible scenario too….We’re pouring it to them during the winter months when things are supposed to be the leanest….This fattens up the females causing them to produce more babies than what the land is actually supporting……BUT that’s not all…..We’re then yanking all of that feed from them on Feb 11……likely leaving a lot of hungry coons on the landscape scavenging for food just prior to turkey nesting season.

But meanwhile we're looking to see if the issue is possibly turkey t-levels…….C’mon man.

So if I don't feed the coons they want have sex?

I think his point is that by feeding raccoons they are unnaturally being congregated in areas that are also attracting turkeys. I’m pretty sure MSU released a study on nest success in relation to proximity of feeders a few years ago. I’ll try to find it.

If we supplementally feed coons then they'll produce more off-spring than they would have otherwise.

This also makes them easier to catch in my opinion. Also I hardly ever have turkeys in the spring in the same areas as during deer season. There's some but the majority move in the spring. Pastures, hayfields etc.

Hunting turkeys over bait is about as fagot and gay as it gets

Its the same as spotlighting deer and shooting

That falls on The freakin sorry arse hunter and not no freaking agency!! Horrible morals - like saying 1 plus 1 = 3. They freaking no bettr - they aint that stupid!! A#* whipping way to good for that trash!!

…..as well as the potential for higher winter survival rates…..Probably should have added that too.

You really think a coon has a hard time surviving a Alabama winter?

as with any animal population . more food more animals . they are heather , survival rates go up . it concentrate them around the food source. creates less computation. on and on and on .

dont take a study to figure this out .


coons are predators more food they have less ground they need less ground they need the more you gonna have . same with any predator .

yes no maybe but they a hell of a lot healthier with all that extra food .

Depends on how much competition for food is driving the amount of movement of each individual across space…….Coons that just spend all winter going back and forth short distances to corn feeders to make a living are gonna likely have lower mortality than ones that have to scavenge across large areas to meet their food needs…..Typically with most any specie the more something has to move and the further it has to travel…..the higher the mortality rates are gonna be…..We’re likely propping up much higher coon populations through Feb 11 and then sending that inflated population off onto the landscape to pillage and plunder during the early spring….I would imagine that the higher populations start exploiting other available food sources during this time period….It would only stand to reason that more coons exploiting resources in the spring would equate to more nests being raided.

I’m starting to think that TDog93 and 3%Outdoorsman are related.
TDog, how much does your Rottweiler weigh?

ask any guy that has been coon hunting for a long time about coons and corn . makes a big difference when people use corn for deer .

I feel like every turkey hunter should atleast run a couple dozen dog proofs every now and then. If you can make the time to hunt them then you should atleast make some time to help them

yeah , and that just one feeder add in say five per sq miles . lol

you really wanna get rid of coon a little faster , squirrel hunt and shot ever nest with a 22 you wanna do it when the squirrels are out feeding . most time you hit the coon he will stick his head out of the nest . head shoot him he'll flop out of the nest . ive done that a hole lot of times . possum wont do that though he'll die in the nest .

Yep……and there’s a big difference too in an animal like a coon just having to survive off the land during the winter in competition with all the other coons versus ones that are getting virtually all the excess food supplemented to them that they want…..You’re pretty much sending them a false signal that the land can support more coons than what it can…..None of this stuff exists in a vacuum either…..Chit keeps rolling down hill….An artificially inflated coon population could really exploit a lot of different natural food resources when the corn is taken away in Feb ….especially the food sources around riparian or bottom land areas……

Now add another layer onto this with the fact that when there is a lack of good upland nesting habitat available……turkeys will tend to nest more in the bottomland areas and you have a recipe for nesting to REALLY be impacted by baiting in some areas even more so than what’s already occurring with just the extra coons…..You’ve got extra coons AND a manipulation of nesting location working against you in that scenario.

If you got a coon problem it’s your own fault. And feeding them corn makes it a heck of a lot easier to kill.
If the coons are full on deer corn they shouldn’t bother the turkey eggs…

Hey… you can call a man a lot of things, but that’s just down right hateful.

I know I’m going to hopefully hunt several days a week or at least be at the property. I trap during turkey and deer season. Doesn’t seem to matter to the turkeys. Easy to set DP’s and check them on the way in or out. Got to get the predators gone.

I haven't read the study, but I heard it referenced on one of the TFT videos. I hope you can find us a link to it.

CNC, I think you have a far better point on this issue than the soil health, as far as something that is limiting turkey populations. I've heard folks talk a lot about exploding coon populations on properties with corn on them. I don't doubt what anyone has seen, but I haven't observed it myself. There are no more coons on our place now than what it was 45 years ago when I was trapping them hard. But we don't have any corn out. Maybe that's part of the reason we have noticed no change in the turkey population.

I suppose it's a moot point, as there is zero chance of the dcnr doing away with the corn license and giving up that money. If corn is having a negative effect on turkey populations, we will just have to cut the limit and season further. We can't lose sight of what's important here.

In the videos I have watched where nests were monitored, predators destroyed a large percentage. CNC, your argument has some merit. IMHO much more believable than the Dominant Gobble Theory.

Is it plausible that coons are concentrated at feeders, giving the perception of an increased population? If that’s the case would it then be plausible that turkeys nesting near feeders would be only ones at the highest risk? I do know that researchers found placing a camera to monitor a nest increased nest loss due to predators.

You take away the corn and the coon numbers are still the same. The only reason somebody thinks the numbers are exploding is because they see them on camera at a feeder.

I agree with this. They’ve always been there, now you just see it. Coons went unchecked after Coon hunting became unpopular many moons ago. Who recreationally hunts coons in Alabama anymore?

You would be surprised. Lots of guys with coon dogs in my area. They let the dog tree and leash the dog. Very few kill the coon. Those guys manage coons the same way we manage deer. They feed them to concentrate and keep them healthy and some guys even worm them.

In some areas some people might still. I’m talking across the blackbelt with large landowners and intensively managed properties. Before trapping was cool they went untouched for atleast a decade.

Nope , things is when deer season is over so is the baiting .

coons hitting feeders is easy as has been mentioned. When I get over 2 coming in at a time the traps go out. Can usually clean them out in 2 nights.....it aint hard.

Correct……that’s why we’re likely making the situation that much worse with the pattern of our feeding……Its not just that we’re inflating the coon population above actual carrying capacity……We’re doing that AND we’re suddenly cutting the feed from that population overnight……When you release this over inflated abundance of coons back onto the landscape on Feb 11 when the feeders run dry, they are going to start exploiting the natural resources that they use as food during the spring and summer….....turkey nests likely being one of those resources…...Think of it like over grazing…….

So don't feed corn and they eat the natural resources year round!

I have a coon graveyard where I hunt cause I trap the hell out of them with corn to the point I don’t see many anymore. When ur filling up feeders put a couple traps at each one and dispose the next morning

The CAB opened Pandoras box with allowing feeding. Even if you aren't feeding deer, your neighbors almost certainly are. When he quits, his coons will disperse to find food and end up on neighboring properties. I'm usually pretty skeptical of CNC's theories, but I believe he is spot on with this idea

This theory would be all great if you didn't have hundreds of farmers planting hundreds of acres of corn fields. CORN ISNT MAKING MORE COONS. It may feed them but so do farmers fields. Sets some traps, get some hounds or keep making charts!

I thought you were just joking this whole time but you're actually serious arent you??.....Wow

I manage 6000 acres for one owner. We fed 46 tons on corn last yr. 52 600lb feeders. We don't have a coon problem because we take care of the coons. All I'm saying is whether you feed or not you still have to kill the coons or its the same result.

If you got time to kill turkeys u got Time trap. Dog proofs are simple wish the state would make u kill 25 coons to get a permit to turkey hunt it would help a hell of lot

Yep

Bingo.

The common sense thing to me would be to say…..If we’re going to keep this “luxury” of baiting and its going to cause the coon population to increase by X amount……then we should also come up with a bigger game plan to mitigate that increase. Something that drives more trapping efforts……The silver lining is that y’all are correct about the populations being grouped up on feeders and easier to catch……You could put a whammy on the coon population if people got serious about trapping. If we had the coons cleaned out on Feb 11 instead of the scenario we have occurring now it would have the potential to make a big difference. The timing of the that trapping would be just about perfect

What the hell kinda reply is that .. lol

Haveing lot of corn in Nebraska has nothing to do with me .

So that means because if you didn't bait there would be no need to trap ?

Lol some of this is to funny .


I don't care what animal population it is . You give it more food there will be more of them .

Read his last statement?

I no just the opposite. I'm just saying it's easier for us. I think everybody should trap.

Did I say anything about Nebraska? I'm just saying same coons eating from a feeder are eating from corn fields also. People feeding didn't just start the coon population.

I honestly thought he was just trolling.....Its really hard to tell sometimes on here.

Well just give turkeys more food then everything's solved!

Yeah , I did .

Might as well have since the corn there will effect most hunters here as much as corn grown in alabama

Yeap , then you have more food for coons so you get more coons .

Creating base habitat is different than injecting supplemental feed

Alabama DCNR doesn't care about anything except money.