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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106410
03/25/24 04:37 AM
03/25/24 04:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 682 Alabama
Doeslayer44
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 682
Alabama
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Headed out with a buddy to see if one will talk to us on this windy opening morning. Good luck fellas
Last edited by Doeslayer44; 03/25/24 06:17 AM.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106411
03/25/24 04:37 AM
03/25/24 04:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,056 AL
BamaGuitarDude
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,056
AL
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gale force winds here 🤦🏻♂️💩
ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106415
03/25/24 04:53 AM
03/25/24 04:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,659 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,659
Montgomery
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Just poked my head out of the camper at the club. Dang at the wind. Imma gonna head out in 5 I got a good 20-25 min ride on the ranger and then another 20 min walk. Good luck y’all.
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106417
03/25/24 05:04 AM
03/25/24 05:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594 Central, Al
Bustinbeards
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594
Central, Al
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My son is up and wants to go listen, so here we go.
Gonna be a rough one this morning fellas with this wind, good luck!
I do see an early breakfast and nap coming on if we don’t hear anything.
Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106421
03/25/24 05:15 AM
03/25/24 05:15 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,739 Hayden, Alabama
HHSyelper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,739
Hayden, Alabama
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Good luck today . Thank God for blessing me with another opening morning.
To God Be The Glory!
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106429
03/25/24 05:34 AM
03/25/24 05:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,409 northport
deadeye48
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,409
northport
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Checking in You guy be safe this morning and kill a big’un
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself The older I get the better I used to be
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106441
03/25/24 06:18 AM
03/25/24 06:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,219 shelby county
hootn
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,219
shelby county
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Sitting at my listening spot here in shelby county
if i hadnt taken up hunting i might have became a juvenile delinquent or worst taken up GOLF
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106442
03/25/24 06:21 AM
03/25/24 06:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,984 Earth
TDog93
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,984
Earth
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Taking hole week off - hav no clue where one at - tried to roost yesterday w no luck - one heck of a crappie morning here - need a miracle in this gale force wind and tomorrow is going to suck worse w flooding 🤣🤣
Typical 😀
But blessed to see another opener! Good luck guys
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self We need prayer for our country now more than ever
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106457
03/25/24 07:17 AM
03/25/24 07:17 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,219 shelby county
hootn
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,219
shelby county
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Ive heard 1 crow. Deer are not sure on where to go. Have had 2 blowing, one I know for sure at me. Had 3 come running thru about 100 yards away. I haven't even heard any Twitty birds
if i hadnt taken up hunting i might have became a juvenile delinquent or worst taken up GOLF
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106472
03/25/24 07:54 AM
03/25/24 07:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,588 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,588
Tuscaloosa Co.
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Wind was terrible this morning. I was able to get up wind of one this morning alittle before 7am before he smelled me, though.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106514
03/25/24 09:02 AM
03/25/24 09:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,298 Houston County
Hoytdad10
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,298
Houston County
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Killed at 7:45. Only 1 gobble from him on the limb. Came strutting in to 40yards.
A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106516
03/25/24 09:03 AM
03/25/24 09:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,148 Ramer
ronfromramer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,148
Ramer
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Got a good one at 6:44am. 21.35 lbs, 10" beard. 1" spurs. Never made a sound but strutted right to me. Unusual to get one by himself this early in season
Last edited by ronfromramer; 03/25/24 09:05 AM.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: HHSyelper]
#4106526
03/25/24 09:12 AM
03/25/24 09:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,851 AL
Gobble4me757
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,851
AL
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How do you put multi beards in the nwtf calculator? Add up the total beard length and double the total
2017 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion 2018 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106531
03/25/24 09:21 AM
03/25/24 09:21 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,739 Hayden, Alabama
HHSyelper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,739
Hayden, Alabama
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So if he had 17.3125 total I would put 34.625? Just want to do it right.
To God Be The Glory!
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: HHSyelper]
#4106554
03/25/24 10:26 AM
03/25/24 10:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,851 AL
Gobble4me757
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,851
AL
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So if he had 17.3125 total I would put 34.625? Just want to do it right. Yep! Add that to the weight and the spur x10
2017 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion 2018 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: jwalker77]
#4106558
03/25/24 10:34 AM
03/25/24 10:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594 Central, Al
Bustinbeards
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594
Central, Al
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The one im wanting played ball this morning. Just happens im over 300mi away. Maybe saturday. Looks like he’s got a jake fan and a harem of hens
Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: Bustinbeards]
#4106576
03/25/24 11:09 AM
03/25/24 11:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 22,166 blount county alabama
jwalker77
Pumpkin
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Pumpkin
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 22,166
blount county alabama
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The one im wanting played ball this morning. Just happens im over 300mi away. Maybe saturday. Looks like he’s got a jake fan and a harem of hens Might not be him. Theres three up there i would like to kill. I cant imagine any of them allowing a jake with a harem of hens
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106596
03/25/24 11:48 AM
03/25/24 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,984 Earth
TDog93
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,984
Earth
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Congrats killers - not a peep heard - would hav to b right on him to hear him today - crappie morning
Yea - thats a jake w 4 hens JW
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self We need prayer for our country now more than ever
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106621
03/25/24 12:39 PM
03/25/24 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,426 Cullman, AL
AUdeerhunter
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,426
Cullman, AL
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#1 dead at 6:50 am this morning!!! Like PCP said: that wind was tough!!! I got really lucky with this one!!! I wanted to drive all the way down the mountain this morning to try and get out of the wind…I snuck in to my listening spot, which is a tree row along a small branch that’s between two hay fields (like a miniature SMZ)…I hadn't heard a gobble at all and I noticed a deer in the hay field about 6:30. I realized it was a good buck that still had both antlers!! I was watching him and still listening for gobbles as the buck neared my downwind side. I knew he was going to smell me, but I was hopeful he wouldn’t blow, stomp, and cause a scene. He caught a whiff of me about 3 minutes later, but just eased out of there like he’d came from. As I was watching the deer ease off in the binoculars, I caught a glimpse of a black object in the hay field about 30 yards from the buck. It was a gobbler and he was going into strut about 150 yards from me!! I eased to the ground and was able to crawl over to an embankment that I could lay down behind. I watched the gobbler for a minute as I got my gun and everything ready. He was as calm as he could be and still strutting!! I gave him a few light yelps and he craned his head up from 150 yards away. I waited about 30 seconds and gave another set of soft yelps and he gobbled. His head instantly turned bright white and I knew he was getting revved up!! I called to him one more sequence about 6-8 minutes later since he hadn’t moved and he answered me again. He continued strutting in the same place for 2-3 more minutes and then I could hear walking in the leaves coming from my right (90° degrees and 100 yards towards me from the gobbler). I saw the bird coming into the hay field and could tell it was a hen. She eased right down the tree row towards me and the gobbler began marching across the field in full strut. The hen walked within 20 yards of me along the tree row and the gobbler had made it to 75 yards by this time. He got to this point and seemed to lose interest in the live hen, but was still interested in my calling. It took him another 5 minutes or so to make it up to 45 yards. I let the TSS do its thing as the gobbler was craning his head and looking hard. I have no idea how he didn't see me standing in the road that runs through the tree row at daylight...I also have no idea where he flew down from!! It was just one of those moments that was meant to be!! Thank you, Lord, for another turkey season!!!!!
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106629
03/25/24 12:59 PM
03/25/24 12:59 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,739 Hayden, Alabama
HHSyelper
10 point
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10 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,739
Hayden, Alabama
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Measurements from today blessing 20lbs 7 ozs. Double beard 10 13/16, and 6 1/2. Hooks 1 1/8 each.
To God Be The Glory!
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106695
03/25/24 02:39 PM
03/25/24 02:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,409 northport
deadeye48
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,409
northport
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Great birds Congrats to all
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself The older I get the better I used to be
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106698
03/25/24 02:45 PM
03/25/24 02:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,659 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,659
Montgomery
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Awful morning weather-wise. Not a peep. Congrats to y’all that smashed one!
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106774
03/25/24 05:09 PM
03/25/24 05:09 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,912 Cullman
CKyleC
(Can't Keep It Up...)
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(Can't Keep It Up...)
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,912
Cullman
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March 25, 2024 will be a day that I never forget. 12 years ago I originally wanted a yellow female lab and I went to make my pick from the litter. I made my pick but this black male just kept pulling at me. I told my wife that I really wanted to bring him home, also. Fast forward a few weeks. I get the call to come pick up my yellow lab. I told my wife that if she doesn’t come with me to make sure I only get one, the black male will be at the house, also, when she gets home. My wife did everything she could to keep me from getting that dog, except coming with me. She had to go to work. Smoke became her favorite dog, ever. Today at 9:23 we put him down. By 12:45 I was tired of sitting and staring off after burying him, so I talked myself and my wife into going to sit on a green field just to do something to get our mind off Smoke. I made some loud yelps on a box and some on one of Stoney’s Fatal Attraxion glass pots. Gave it 20 minutes, got louder and more aggressive, cuts and yelps. 7 minutes later 2 two yr olds come walking in, looking for the hens. I’m thinking there’s no way this is going to work out. Sure enough, they work in to range. I tell my wife, when he stretches out his head , get the dot on it and squeeze….I’ll get the one on the right. Well, it worked out! On the day we buried our favorite dog, my wife and I doubled up on decent 2 yr olds. It was her first bird. Like I said….March 25, 2024 will be a day I never forget…. The rock sits over Smoke’s grave…..
Last edited by CKyleC; 03/25/24 05:27 PM.
"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: CKyleC]
#4106802
03/25/24 06:29 PM
03/25/24 06:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,398
Atoler
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,398
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March 25, 2024 will be a day that I never forget. 12 years ago I originally wanted a yellow female lab and I went to make my pick from the litter. I made my pick but this black male just kept pulling at me. I told my wife that I really wanted to bring him home, also. Fast forward a few weeks. I get the call to come pick up my yellow lab. I told my wife that if she doesn’t come with me to make sure I only get one, the black male will be at the house, also, when she gets home. My wife did everything she could to keep me from getting that dog, except coming with me. She had to go to work. Smoke became her favorite dog, ever. Today at 9:23 we put him down. By 12:45 I was tired of sitting and staring off after burying him, so I talked myself and my wife into going to sit on a green field just to do something to get our mind off Smoke. I made some loud yelps on a box and some on one of Stoney’s Fatal Attraxion glass pots. Gave it 20 minutes, got louder and more aggressive, cuts and yelps. 7 minutes later 2 two yr olds come walking in, looking for the hens. I’m thinking there’s no way this is going to work out. Sure enough, they work in to range. I tell my wife, when he stretches out his head , get the dot on it and squeeze….I’ll get the one on the right. Well, it worked out! On the day we buried our favorite dog, my wife and I doubled up on decent 2 yr olds. It was her first bird. Like I said….March 25, 2024 will be a day I never forget…. The rock sits over Smoke’s grave….. Hate to hear that, but pretty cool ending to the day.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106813
03/25/24 06:48 PM
03/25/24 06:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,017 Alabama
oldbowhunter
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,017
Alabama
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Me and a Buddy started at daylight. Heard the first gobble at 10:25am. Doubled up at 11:35. One of them had extra whiskers
Last edited by oldbowhunter; 03/25/24 07:01 PM.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106820
03/25/24 07:03 PM
03/25/24 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,397 Sylvania Alabama
Sandmtnslayer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3,397
Sylvania Alabama
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Called one in for my 76 yr old dad today and he smoked it. The best day of my life. Wish I knew how to post pics
Not all Indians were hunters some toted firewood
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#4106843
03/25/24 07:34 PM
03/25/24 07:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,659 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,659
Montgomery
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Managed to get one to gobble once and was close enough to hear him. I never would've gotten him without that gobble.i don't remember ever killing one on a more difficult morning. Blessed to live to see another turkey season! Congrats! We got some sho nuff turkey killers on here BUT if I had to pick one out of all them on here to be the best, it would be you, sir. I believe you could kill one in above the the artic circle!
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: bamaeyedoc]
#4106870
03/25/24 08:20 PM
03/25/24 08:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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Managed to get one to gobble once and was close enough to hear him. I never would've gotten him without that gobble.i don't remember ever killing one on a more difficult morning. Blessed to live to see another turkey season! Congrats! We got some sho nuff turkey killers on here BUT if I had to pick one out of all them on here to be the best, it would be you, sir. I believe you could kill one in above the the artic circle! I concur! Congrats PCP
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: Southwood7]
#4106875
03/25/24 08:31 PM
03/25/24 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,915
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,915
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Managed to get one to gobble once and was close enough to hear him. I never would've gotten him without that gobble.i don't remember ever killing one on a more difficult morning. Blessed to live to see another turkey season! Congrats! We got some sho nuff turkey killers on here BUT if I had to pick one out of all them on here to be the best, it would be you, sir. I believe you could kill one in above the the artic circle! I concur! Congrats PCP I’ll 3rd that! Congrats Mr Steve
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: sj22]
#4106878
03/25/24 08:33 PM
03/25/24 08:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,671 Madison, AL
wmd
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,671
Madison, AL
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Love seeing that and brings back a bunch of memories from when my son was a youngster. Make it fun and you'll have a hunting buddy for life!
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" - D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: Sandmtnslayer]
#4106881
03/25/24 08:36 PM
03/25/24 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,913 Tallassee
G/H
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,913
Tallassee
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Called one in for my 76 yr old dad today and he smoked it. The best day of my life. Wish I knew how to post pics I’ll Send you a pm with my number.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106898
03/25/24 09:14 PM
03/25/24 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,336 North Alabama
robinhedd
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,336
North Alabama
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Sandmtnslayer, that’s awesome sir!
"Guess I just got too much Mathews in me!"
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: G/H]
#4106909
03/25/24 09:25 PM
03/25/24 09:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,017 Alabama
oldbowhunter
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,017
Alabama
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Posting for sandmtnslayer That makes me happy Well done
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4106912
03/25/24 09:28 PM
03/25/24 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,984 Earth
TDog93
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,984
Earth
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Thats awesome sandmtnslayer - great pic
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self We need prayer for our country now more than ever
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: robinhedd]
#4106914
03/25/24 09:34 PM
03/25/24 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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Sandmtnslayer, that’s awesome sir!
We dont rent pigs
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: robinhedd]
#4107005
03/26/24 06:30 AM
03/26/24 06:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,409 northport
deadeye48
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,409
northport
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Sandmtnslayer, that’s awesome sir! Indeed it is !! That pic is frame worthy
Last edited by deadeye48; 03/26/24 06:31 AM.
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself The older I get the better I used to be
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: lefthorn]
#4107029
03/26/24 07:00 AM
03/26/24 07:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594 Central, Al
Bustinbeards
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594
Central, Al
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Congratulations to all the killas.
I had a continuance of youth weekend when My son decided he was going too.
He was tired and sounded like Herman Munster stomping around behind me. I was glad for the wind.
We didn’t hear a thing but the wind.
He was a trooper though, we put on some miles and had fun until he got hungry.
Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: robinhedd]
#4107067
03/26/24 07:47 AM
03/26/24 07:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,915
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,915
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Sandmtnslayer, that’s awesome sir!
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: G/H]
#4107079
03/26/24 07:58 AM
03/26/24 07:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594 Central, Al
Bustinbeards
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,594
Central, Al
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Posting for sandmtnslayer Congratulations, man what a day!
Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
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Re: LFTW Opening Morning
[Re: TDog93]
#4107092
03/26/24 08:08 AM
03/26/24 08:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,102 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,102
Sylacauga, AL
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Thats awesome sandmtnslayer - great pic Sure is! Congrats to all of you! I tried really hard to call in a gobbler for my dad his last couple of seasons, and failed every time.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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