|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
|
|
137 registered members (AU338MAG, Hornhntr, YellaLineHunter, QDMAV8R, donia, GomerPyle, ronfromramer, mdavis, alhawk, Brian_C, Driveby, DGAMBLER, mdf, dawgdr, 3bailey3, BrandonClark, JA, AL18, BCLC, hue, BPI, Uokman2014, hallb, Reptar, hamma, bamaeyedoc, trlrdrdave, Shaneomac2, Paint Rock 00, Scout308, Tree Dweller, Rock1, Bama Buck, hitek, Morris, Jdkprp70, Bustinbeards, Pwyse, ridgestalker, Ridge Life, rrice0725, Hunting15, Fishduck, Floorman1, Young20, Gobl4me, Jwoods32, Bmyers142, JohnG, !shiloh!, hunter84, Exhoosier, Ol’Tom, Squadron77, skoor, desertdog, abamadude, jmj120, effinacotton, burbank, Morgan, WEMOhunter, BamaGuitarDude, walt4dun, Catbird, Bad06Z, HURRICANE, William, Bulls eye, USeeMSpurs, straycat, mjs14, metalmuncher, zwick, Lockjaw, AUdeerhunter, Squeaky, Joe4majors, Whiskey9, Chiller, Bgreene18, StateLine, dagwood, canichols424, specialk, Quack Quack Bang, Whitetaillane, Dixiepatriot, KENT, HBWALKER14, Jmac8082, OutdoorsAL, Mulcher, Peach, Cjunkin, Chancetribe, fi8shmasty, BamaPlowboy, crocker, 7PTSPREAD, JB357, russellb, Bushmaster, doc bar, FPPop, 2walnuts, Beer Belly, centralala, bamapanic, BrentsFX4, oakachoy, GRINNING, Parker243, RebFormanUDA, Okatuppa, outdoorguy88, booner, jlbuc10, CeeHawk37, AC870, GKM, 10 POINT, Gobble4me757, 14 invisible),
782
guests, and 0
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
#4104797
03/21/24 07:30 PM
03/21/24 07:30 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
|
OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
|
This is always a fun topic… 5 acre field on a property with around 20 acres of plots. Bordered directly by 5 acres of heavy TSI and 11 acres of thinned pines, both of which have been burned in the last 3 years. Also bordered by a 2yr old, 2 acre clearcut that has been allowed to get thick and will be burned for the first time this year or next. Shot over 20 does between us and the neighbors. Had pictures of at least 4 deer in field just after we left. They’re keeping it mowed to the ground. Need some more habitat improvement and some more doe killing. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/K7msIOb.jpeg)
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4104808
03/21/24 07:39 PM
03/21/24 07:39 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,619 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
|
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,619
Awbarn, AL
|
Looks about right to me.......If the whole field looked like the inside of the cage (unused) then what would be the point?
Last edited by CNC; 03/21/24 07:40 PM.
We dont rent pigs
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4104858
03/21/24 08:40 PM
03/21/24 08:40 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,190 Earth
TDog93
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,190
Earth
|
Thats why he shot more does
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self We need prayer for our country now more than ever
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4104869
03/21/24 08:58 PM
03/21/24 08:58 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,316 Here
Okatuppa
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,316
Here
|
If that picture was taken today, that’s a pitiful amount of growth inside the cage.
I ain't fightin nobody that swings around in trees with a running chainsaw like Tarzan. - FurFlyin
Oh I just thought u were a dumba$$ 🤣 my apologies… - jb20
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4104973
03/22/24 07:07 AM
03/22/24 07:07 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,481 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,481
Boxes Cove
|
Remember , you can have a lot of deer if you have food for them.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4104992
03/22/24 07:38 AM
03/22/24 07:38 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,073 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Old Mossy Horns
|
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,073
Tuscaloosa Co.
|
Wouldn’t take many deer to keep that foodplot mowed down.
83% of all statistics are made up.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: BPI]
#4105051
03/22/24 08:53 AM
03/22/24 08:53 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,481 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,481
Boxes Cove
|
Some places have too many. Some don't. you can't cookie cut every situation. Looks like you did what you needed to do SE Wait, what! Some places have too many ?!
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4105085
03/22/24 09:52 AM
03/22/24 09:52 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642
colbert county
|
Is killing does the new Covid
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: 2Dogs]
#4105099
03/22/24 10:19 AM
03/22/24 10:19 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,726
abolt300
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,726
|
Some places have too many. Some don't. you can't cookie cut every situation. Looks like you did what you needed to do SE Wait, what! Some places have too many ?! He hasn't had his one on one site visit and personal meeting with CNC yet. Harold will show him the light and get him corrected.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: abolt300]
#4105108
03/22/24 10:39 AM
03/22/24 10:39 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,619 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
|
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,619
Awbarn, AL
|
He hasn't had his one on one site visit and personal meeting with CNC yet. Harold will show him the light and get him corrected.
Just my opinion but the best thing you could do with a field like this is leave it alone and let it be a “constant” on the landscape year after year where bucks for miles around know there will be a high concentration of does at this spot come rut……There’s not a 5-10 acre foodplot full of does on every corner. Screw using it as a place to whack does…..You can do that over a corn pile in the camp yard or something…..A field like this should be good for whacking a stud or two every year
We dont rent pigs
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4105155
03/22/24 12:36 PM
03/22/24 12:36 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,806 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,806
B'ham
|
I planted a food plot for the deer. It didn't grow all that well. I shot as many as I could but they just kept eating it?
..... WTH is that?
When it is patchy dirt that's when it's "mowed to the ground". That's not it.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: 2Dogs]
#4105253
03/22/24 03:02 PM
03/22/24 03:02 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 24,846 blount county alabama
jwalker77
Pumpkin - The Thermal Expert
|
Pumpkin - The Thermal Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 24,846
blount county alabama
|
Remember , you can have a lot of deer if you have food for them. Yep. More food = more deer, unless you kill the deer factories.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: MC21]
#4105344
03/22/24 05:15 PM
03/22/24 05:15 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,882 Elmore County
treemydog
8 point
|
8 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,882
Elmore County
|
So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property? Million dollar question. And don't let anyone tell you that a quick site visit and property walk through can give anyone the answer.
You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: MC21]
#4105367
03/22/24 06:02 PM
03/22/24 06:02 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
|
OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
|
Im really confused here. Are the deer on this property starving? it looks like a well used field to me. Not sure how one is supposed to determine if there are too many deer on this property from this picture. I got invited to a 500 acre property this year because they "had to many does" there fields looked a lot worse than this. They had not taken a doe off of that property in over 5 years. they also did not allow gun hunting on that property until after Christmas and you couldn't shoot a doe with a rifle. so when I went i took my crossbow. I was sitting on a 1/2 acre plot with a corn pile 40 yards in front of my stand. I had 11 deer come in to that corn pile at around 4 in the afternoon. I shot the biggest doe in the group. The 3 guys that hunted the property were hunting that day and they all saw at least 6 or more does and we all killed a doe that afternoon. They wanted 5 does killed off the property and we almost did it that in one afternoon. Even though I was happy to shoot a doe for them, I'm still not sold that they had "too many does" every deer we killed was close to 100 pounds I don't think they were starving.
So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property? This is directed at the OP It depends on what your goals are. If all you want to do is see the maximum amount of deer, then don't shoot does. My goal is to grow mature bucks that express their maximum potential. Antlers are an indication of excess in a buck's life and there is higher competition for resources on my property than I'd like. My deer aren't starving, but I don't want any nutritional stress, or any other stress for that matter, on my deer at any stage of their lives to a greater extent than what is absolutely guaranteed.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4105610
03/23/24 08:56 AM
03/23/24 08:56 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,190 Earth
TDog93
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,190
Earth
|
^^^ Yes
And i dont shoot many does in tville cause i dont hav huge numbers amd did not shoot them on plots this year
I hate the stress on shooting lot of does and i need to shoot many in camden - just hav not taken the time. The huge numbers not only eat most of the food - they spook bucks off the food - got some old matriarch snorters that been needing to go - they snort at nothing when wind right
And my deer n camden way - way thinner - all places dont hav unlimited food - u hav a carrying capacity
I got a couple of studs n tville that can reach some potential next year if they make it. Hate the rain but great for growing deer
Lot less eyes around your field to if not over run
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self We need prayer for our country now more than ever
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4105650
03/23/24 09:46 AM
03/23/24 09:46 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,316 Here
Okatuppa
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,316
Here
|
Based on the acreages that you stated in your original post, you’re gonna need a high fence.
I ain't fightin nobody that swings around in trees with a running chainsaw like Tarzan. - FurFlyin
Oh I just thought u were a dumba$$ 🤣 my apologies… - jb20
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: CrappieMan]
#4106974
03/26/24 04:24 AM
03/26/24 04:24 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642
colbert county
|
Let's just say you have a 2.5 yr old on your property that shows genetic potential to blow up to 150 plus. His momma may have had the genetic that was passed to him. Start killing does and you may kill off your dominant genetic. You’ll never know. Odds would be momma doe would be a few miles away.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4106975
03/26/24 04:26 AM
03/26/24 04:26 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642
colbert county
|
If that pic is very recent that is a lot of browsing pressure. This time of year food sources especially this year, are pretty ample for browsing deer.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Lockjaw]
#4107293
03/26/24 12:23 PM
03/26/24 12:23 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
|
OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
|
Wait you want to grow mature bucks that express their potential, but did I read right that field isn't even soil tested?
I have a soil test on my plots. This particular plot has a pH around 6.5 and I could fertilize it exactly to spec, but 1. It's cheaper to have chicken litter spread. 2. I don't have to spread it 3. It's not as bad for the soil as extensive use of synthetic fertilizers. 4. It still works well
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: 3toe]
#4107709
03/27/24 07:50 AM
03/27/24 07:50 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,934 Clanton
Turkey_neck
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,934
Clanton
|
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question. That was my first thought I ain’t allowing it on my property.
Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4107742
03/27/24 08:35 AM
03/27/24 08:35 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,829 Chelsea
Lockjaw
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,829
Chelsea
|
My best understanding from all the research I have done is the best way to have better quality bucks starts with a healthy doe. Be that your food quality, which I think plays a big role, to limiting the number of doe's, you have to start there. I run alot of cameras on different green fields, and the fields I have that get the most traffic usually have whitetail clover/fusion growing, and the soil is darker. I just planted a field in bulldog alfalfa, so I will be interested to see what happens with it.
I think its also important to have good food available when the deer need it. They really need it coming out of the rut and into fawning time. I also think, especially in Alabama, that you have to have something that is strong into August and September. If its dry, the stuff in the woods dries up in a hurry. Thats why I like clover so much, but if its dry, then it struggles some too. Sunn Hemp is my go to there.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Turkey_neck]
#4107769
03/27/24 09:20 AM
03/27/24 09:20 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,815 Xroads
Backwards cowboy
8 point
|
8 point
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,815
Xroads
|
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question. That was my first thought I ain’t allowing it on my property. I have heard this, my neighbor who just uses his place to hunt strictly forbids it for that reason. I have cattle and use it on my pastures and hay fields all the time. Neither of have seen where it has effected the turkey population in any way. Not saying it won't, but hasn't for me
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: 3toe]
#4108294
03/28/24 09:36 AM
03/28/24 09:36 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
|
OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
|
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question. I had concerns when we first started spreading the chicken litter, but our turkey numbers have only continued to grow.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: BigEd]
#4127604
05/06/24 03:58 PM
05/06/24 03:58 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 424 Auburn, AL
Antlerfluke
4 point
|
4 point
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 424
Auburn, AL
|
More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because. Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Antlerfluke]
#4127826
05/06/24 10:25 PM
05/06/24 10:25 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,726
abolt300
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,726
|
More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because. Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year. And on a property that small, all 11 of those buck fawns born to the does living there, would have dispersed off onto surrounding properties in a 2-10 mile radius. Do some research on buck fawn dispersal. Unless you’ve got thousands of acres, 90% of the young bucks you see on your property will have been born somewhere else and dispersed over onto you. It’s a major reason why what your neighbors and neighbors neighbors are doing and shooting, really affects what you’re able to do and accomplish management wise on your property
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: abolt300]
#4127918
05/07/24 06:43 AM
05/07/24 06:43 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
|
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346
Right behind you
|
More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because. Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year. And on a property that small, all 11 of those buck fawns born to the does living there, would have dispersed off onto surrounding properties in a 2-10 mile radius. Do some research on buck fawn dispersal. Unless you’ve got thousands of acres, 90% of the young bucks you see on your property will have been born somewhere else and dispersed over onto you. It’s a major reason why what your neighbors and neighbors neighbors are doing and shooting, really affects what you’re able to do and accomplish management wise on your property I’ve tried to explain that to ppl with very little success doing so. The overwhelming majority of bucks on your property were not born there, and the ones that are you’re supplying to someone else. When I get these comments about “that deer has got to be the son of so and so that I killed a few years ago”, I know they don’t even have the most basic understanding of antler heritability or fawn dispersal. That’s just not how things work lol.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Pwyse]
#4128280
05/07/24 06:57 PM
05/07/24 06:57 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 19,992 North AL
AU338MAG
Old Mossy Horns
|
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 19,992
North AL
|
So Mbrock and Abolt300... what acreage would you say it takes for a deer to be hunted on the same land it was born on? If all the bucks born on your property pretty much leave, should the goal of having healthy does and fawns change to trying to attract more spikes and 2 year olds? Or are the paths to both those goals the same?
I'm trying to decide if trapping coyotes should even be a concern anymore since those buck fawns wouldn't have stayed on my property anyways. Let the coyotes kill the fawns to make more room for the bucks coming in from other properties. Yotes eat young doe fawns also...
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Molon Labe
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: AU338MAG]
#4128292
05/07/24 07:11 PM
05/07/24 07:11 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,551 Mobile, AL
Pwyse
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,551
Mobile, AL
|
So Mbrock and Abolt300... what acreage would you say it takes for a deer to be hunted on the same land it was born on? If all the bucks born on your property pretty much leave, should the goal of having healthy does and fawns change to trying to attract more spikes and 2 year olds? Or are the paths to both those goals the same?
I'm trying to decide if trapping coyotes should even be a concern anymore since those buck fawns wouldn't have stayed on my property anyways. Let the coyotes kill the fawns to make more room for the bucks coming in from other properties. Yotes eat young doe fawns also... Right... but wouldn't that make room for the bucks coming in?
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4128395
05/07/24 09:17 PM
05/07/24 09:17 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
|
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346
Right behind you
|
Pwyse whether we like it or not coyotes are a substantial part of deer mortality on certain landscapes. Research out of South Carolina has pretty much negated any long term benefits to coyote control. It can be effective short term, but there’s so many transient (without a defined home range) coyotes on the landscape they quickly fill any voids from trapping. I’m not saying don’t trap. I’m not saying don’t shoot coyotes. I’m simply saying I manage deer herds now with a different perspective than I used to, and focus on providing key habitat requirements for successful fawning and rearing, plus nutritional needs for lactation and antler growth. If you’re providing those things, dispersing young bucks will utilize what you have. One of the primary places I manage is an absolute freak show for summer bachelor groups and development. Why? Because we are providing a lot of biomass in herbaceous growth and cover. It attracts a lot of bucks during antler growth and recovery. So many, in fact, they can’t all coexist on the same acreage when fall rolls around. So we, in theory, are benefiting a lot of other hunters those bucks disperse to, after spending half the year here. Does are in superb physical condition, and produce mostly twins, with some triplets, and they also disperse to surrounding properties. But let me tell you we pull a ton of 1-2 year olds that decide they want to stay. They just have to earn their place due to so much competition for great resources. I’d love to start a fawn capture study there and follow some of the fawns that do hang around, because right now I have some theories on some of the bucks that do stay. We pull a lot of runt looking 80 lb spikes from miles away that were born on poor habitat, and they don’t look like the same deer as some of our 125 lb 8 point one year olds that I’m fairly sure are born here and decide to stay. It’s very few though. Over the years we’ve seen a very high increase in fork antlered 1 year olds, but we are managing several square miles. That’s enough property to hold some of the bucks being born there.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Mbrock]
#4128424
05/08/24 04:05 AM
05/08/24 04:05 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,780 Montgomery, AL
Forrestgump1
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,780
Montgomery, AL
|
Pwyse whether we like it or not coyotes are a substantial part of deer mortality on certain landscapes. Research out of South Carolina has pretty much negated any long term benefits to coyote control. It can be effective short term, but there’s so many transient (without a defined home range) coyotes on the landscape they quickly fill any voids from trapping. I’m not saying don’t trap. I’m not saying don’t shoot coyotes. I’m simply saying I manage deer herds now with a different perspective than I used to, and focus on providing key habitat requirements for successful fawning and rearing, plus nutritional needs for lactation and antler growth. If you’re providing those things, dispersing young bucks will utilize what you have. One of the primary places I manage is an absolute freak show for summer bachelor groups and development. Why? Because we are providing a lot of biomass in herbaceous growth and cover. It attracts a lot of bucks during antler growth and recovery. So many, in fact, they can’t all coexist on the same acreage when fall rolls around. So we, in theory, are benefiting a lot of other hunters those bucks disperse to, after spending half the year here. Does are in superb physical condition, and produce mostly twins, with some triplets, and they also disperse to surrounding properties. But let me tell you we pull a ton of 1-2 year olds that decide they want to stay. They just have to earn their place due to so much competition for great resources. I’d love to start a fawn capture study there and follow some of the fawns that do hang around, because right now I have some theories on some of the bucks that do stay. We pull a lot of runt looking 80 lb spikes from miles away that were born on poor habitat, and they don’t look like the same deer as some of our 125 lb 8 point one year olds that I’m fairly sure are born here and decide to stay. It’s very few though. Over the years we’ve seen a very high increase in fork antlered 1 year olds, but we are managing several square miles. That’s enough property to hold some of the bucks being born there. This post is gold, and what I’ve been trying to explain to folks forever. The overall picture is much much larger than a few hundred or a thousand acres. I think it rings true for the doe control argument as well. If you have prime habitat, and remove x amount of does, don’t you think x amount more could move in? If your carrying capacity holds it why not have it.
Last edited by Forrestgump1; 05/08/24 04:07 AM.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Mbrock]
#4128468
05/08/24 06:39 AM
05/08/24 06:39 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 879 Louisiana to Central AL
Antelope08
6 point
|
6 point
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 879
Louisiana to Central AL
|
Pwyse whether we like it or not coyotes are a substantial part of deer mortality on certain landscapes. Research out of South Carolina has pretty much negated any long term benefits to coyote control. It can be effective short term, but there’s so many transient (without a defined home range) coyotes on the landscape they quickly fill any voids from trapping. I’m not saying don’t trap. I’m not saying don’t shoot coyotes. I’m simply saying I manage deer herds now with a different perspective than I used to, and focus on providing key habitat requirements for successful fawning and rearing, plus nutritional needs for lactation and antler growth. If you’re providing those things, dispersing young bucks will utilize what you have. One of the primary places I manage is an absolute freak show for summer bachelor groups and development. Why? Because we are providing a lot of biomass in herbaceous growth and cover. It attracts a lot of bucks during antler growth and recovery. So many, in fact, they can’t all coexist on the same acreage when fall rolls around. So we, in theory, are benefiting a lot of other hunters those bucks disperse to, after spending half the year here. Does are in superb physical condition, and produce mostly twins, with some triplets, and they also disperse to surrounding properties. But let me tell you we pull a ton of 1-2 year olds that decide they want to stay. They just have to earn their place due to so much competition for great resources. I’d love to start a fawn capture study there and follow some of the fawns that do hang around, because right now I have some theories on some of the bucks that do stay. We pull a lot of runt looking 80 lb spikes from miles away that were born on poor habitat, and they don’t look like the same deer as some of our 125 lb 8 point one year olds that I’m fairly sure are born here and decide to stay. It’s very few though. Over the years we’ve seen a very high increase in fork antlered 1 year olds, but we are managing several square miles. That’s enough property to hold some of the bucks being born there. Excellent post, that explains it pretty plainly.......
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Mbrock]
#4128696
05/08/24 02:19 PM
05/08/24 02:19 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,642
colbert county
|
Pwyse whether we like it or not coyotes are a substantial part of deer mortality on certain landscapes. Research out of South Carolina has pretty much negated any long term benefits to coyote control. It can be effective short term, but there’s so many transient (without a defined home range) coyotes on the landscape they quickly fill any voids from trapping. I’m not saying don’t trap. I’m not saying don’t shoot coyotes. I’m simply saying I manage deer herds now with a different perspective than I used to, and focus on providing key habitat requirements for successful fawning and rearing, plus nutritional needs for lactation and antler growth. If you’re providing those things, dispersing young bucks will utilize what you have. One of the primary places I manage is an absolute freak show for summer bachelor groups and development. Why? Because we are providing a lot of biomass in herbaceous growth and cover. It attracts a lot of bucks during antler growth and recovery. So many, in fact, they can’t all coexist on the same acreage when fall rolls around. So we, in theory, are benefiting a lot of other hunters those bucks disperse to, after spending half the year here. Does are in superb physical condition, and produce mostly twins, with some triplets, and they also disperse to surrounding properties. But let me tell you we pull a ton of 1-2 year olds that decide they want to stay. They just have to earn their place due to so much competition for great resources. I’d love to start a fawn capture study there and follow some of the fawns that do hang around, because right now I have some theories on some of the bucks that do stay. We pull a lot of runt looking 80 lb spikes from miles away that were born on poor habitat, and they don’t look like the same deer as some of our 125 lb 8 point one year olds that I’m fairly sure are born here and decide to stay. It’s very few though. Over the years we’ve seen a very high increase in fork antlered 1 year olds, but we are managing several square miles. That’s enough property to hold some of the bucks being born there. When you mention earn their place. Did that play a role in antler development. Everything else is contributing factor for sure with that quality habitat. I’m just curious does competition play a role in antler development. Some the last things I read they were probing social hierarchy playing a role or thought to in antler characteristics.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4128714
05/08/24 02:49 PM
05/08/24 02:49 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 753 Wilcox County
hamma
4 point
|
4 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 753
Wilcox County
|
Speaking of coyote depredation . Ft rucker put some good info out years ago about this. Best i recall , they concluded coyotes were responsible for north of 70% fawn mortality. Its an eye opener for sure
Last edited by hamma; 05/08/24 02:58 PM.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: hamma]
#4128748
05/08/24 04:34 PM
05/08/24 04:34 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
|
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346
Right behind you
|
Speaking of coyote depredation . Ft rucker put some good info out years ago about this. Best i recall , they concluded coyotes were responsible for north of 70% fawn mortality. Its an eye opener for sure It varies on each study site, but yeah they’re pretty efficient. The best way to combat it is trap immediately before peak fawning, provide adequate herbaceous cover for fawns and tightening the breeding window by correcting buck:doe ratios.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Pwyse]
#4128836
05/08/24 07:45 PM
05/08/24 07:45 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,780 Montgomery, AL
Forrestgump1
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,780
Montgomery, AL
|
I try to trap at the right time to create a void of coyotes during fawning. I used to do the same with coons during turkey nesting. Will have to get back in both of them this year. I believe there’s research now showing if you want to save your turkeys you need to be more concerned with the coyotes than coons.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Forrestgump1]
#4128933
05/08/24 11:19 PM
05/08/24 11:19 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 413 L.A.
BAR1225
4 point
|
4 point
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 413
L.A.
|
I try to trap at the right time to create a void of coyotes during fawning. I used to do the same with coons during turkey nesting. Will have to get back in both of them this year. I believe there’s research now showing if you want to save your turkeys you need to be more concerned with the coyotes than coons. Coyotes and bobcats. I watched a Gamekeeper podcast not long ago where they were talking about this. I forget the name of the researcher they had on as a guest, but he was very adamant that coyotes and bobcats were the main culprits when it came to failed nest. Basically the coyote or bobcat would kill the nested hen and then nest predators would come in later and eat the eggs. However, there are other researchers out there that disagree with him so I don’t think the science is settled.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Forrestgump1]
#4128964
05/09/24 05:56 AM
05/09/24 05:56 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 55,131 Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
James
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 55,131
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
|
I try to trap at the right time to create a void of coyotes during fawning. I used to do the same with coons during turkey nesting. Will have to get back in both of them this year. I believe there’s research now showing if you want to save your turkeys you need to be more concerned with the coyotes than coons. We found some coyote crap other day that had pieces of a Gobbler beard in it. We'd had a nice Gobbler in the area (on cam) and he disappeared, guess we know what happened to him now 🫤😡🫤
Do not regret growing older, it's a privilege denied to many!
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: James]
#4128974
05/09/24 06:21 AM
05/09/24 06:21 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
|
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,346
Right behind you
|
I try to trap at the right time to create a void of coyotes during fawning. I used to do the same with coons during turkey nesting. Will have to get back in both of them this year. I believe there’s research now showing if you want to save your turkeys you need to be more concerned with the coyotes than coons. We found some coyote crap other day that had pieces of a Gobbler beard in it. We'd had a nice Gobbler in the area (on cam) and he disappeared, guess we know what happened to him now 🫤😡🫤 I have a buddy in KS who owns a bird dog. He was walking his property with his kids and dog a few days ago when they walked up on a gobbler with a hen. The dog ran right behind the gobbler, as he was wasn’t paying any attention, and was focused on his hen, and killed him. Just like that. If a dang domestic dog can kill a turkey by happenstance, you know a coyote can.
|
|
|
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4133317
05/17/24 07:15 PM
05/17/24 07:15 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,639 Your Lock-on
Whild_Bill
🦞 Crawfishing Asshat 🦞
|
🦞 Crawfishing Asshat 🦞
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,639
Your Lock-on
|
We only kill young does fine for shooting a mature doe plus the younger deer eat better you don’t want to kill the good mommas you was them in your property
We Just Know What Works For Us
|
|
|
|