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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: MC21]
#4105344
03/22/24 05:15 PM
03/22/24 05:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,882 Elmore County
treemydog
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,882
Elmore County
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So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property? Million dollar question. And don't let anyone tell you that a quick site visit and property walk through can give anyone the answer.
You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: MC21]
#4105367
03/22/24 06:02 PM
03/22/24 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
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OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
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Im really confused here. Are the deer on this property starving? it looks like a well used field to me. Not sure how one is supposed to determine if there are too many deer on this property from this picture. I got invited to a 500 acre property this year because they "had to many does" there fields looked a lot worse than this. They had not taken a doe off of that property in over 5 years. they also did not allow gun hunting on that property until after Christmas and you couldn't shoot a doe with a rifle. so when I went i took my crossbow. I was sitting on a 1/2 acre plot with a corn pile 40 yards in front of my stand. I had 11 deer come in to that corn pile at around 4 in the afternoon. I shot the biggest doe in the group. The 3 guys that hunted the property were hunting that day and they all saw at least 6 or more does and we all killed a doe that afternoon. They wanted 5 does killed off the property and we almost did it that in one afternoon. Even though I was happy to shoot a doe for them, I'm still not sold that they had "too many does" every deer we killed was close to 100 pounds I don't think they were starving.
So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property? This is directed at the OP It depends on what your goals are. If all you want to do is see the maximum amount of deer, then don't shoot does. My goal is to grow mature bucks that express their maximum potential. Antlers are an indication of excess in a buck's life and there is higher competition for resources on my property than I'd like. My deer aren't starving, but I don't want any nutritional stress, or any other stress for that matter, on my deer at any stage of their lives to a greater extent than what is absolutely guaranteed.
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4105610
03/23/24 08:56 AM
03/23/24 08:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,193 Earth
TDog93
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,193
Earth
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^^^ Yes
And i dont shoot many does in tville cause i dont hav huge numbers amd did not shoot them on plots this year
I hate the stress on shooting lot of does and i need to shoot many in camden - just hav not taken the time. The huge numbers not only eat most of the food - they spook bucks off the food - got some old matriarch snorters that been needing to go - they snort at nothing when wind right
And my deer n camden way - way thinner - all places dont hav unlimited food - u hav a carrying capacity
I got a couple of studs n tville that can reach some potential next year if they make it. Hate the rain but great for growing deer
Lot less eyes around your field to if not over run
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self We need prayer for our country now more than ever
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4105650
03/23/24 09:46 AM
03/23/24 09:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,316 Here
Okatuppa
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,316
Here
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Based on the acreages that you stated in your original post, you’re gonna need a high fence.
I ain't fightin nobody that swings around in trees with a running chainsaw like Tarzan. - FurFlyin
Oh I just thought u were a dumba$$ 🤣 my apologies… - jb20
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: CrappieMan]
#4106974
03/26/24 04:24 AM
03/26/24 04:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,645 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,645
colbert county
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Let's just say you have a 2.5 yr old on your property that shows genetic potential to blow up to 150 plus. His momma may have had the genetic that was passed to him. Start killing does and you may kill off your dominant genetic. You’ll never know. Odds would be momma doe would be a few miles away.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4106975
03/26/24 04:26 AM
03/26/24 04:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,645 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,645
colbert county
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If that pic is very recent that is a lot of browsing pressure. This time of year food sources especially this year, are pretty ample for browsing deer.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Lockjaw]
#4107293
03/26/24 12:23 PM
03/26/24 12:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
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OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
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Wait you want to grow mature bucks that express their potential, but did I read right that field isn't even soil tested?
I have a soil test on my plots. This particular plot has a pH around 6.5 and I could fertilize it exactly to spec, but 1. It's cheaper to have chicken litter spread. 2. I don't have to spread it 3. It's not as bad for the soil as extensive use of synthetic fertilizers. 4. It still works well
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: 3toe]
#4107709
03/27/24 07:50 AM
03/27/24 07:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,934 Clanton
Turkey_neck
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,934
Clanton
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Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question. That was my first thought I ain’t allowing it on my property.
Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: SEWoodsWhitetail]
#4107742
03/27/24 08:35 AM
03/27/24 08:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,829 Chelsea
Lockjaw
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,829
Chelsea
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My best understanding from all the research I have done is the best way to have better quality bucks starts with a healthy doe. Be that your food quality, which I think plays a big role, to limiting the number of doe's, you have to start there. I run alot of cameras on different green fields, and the fields I have that get the most traffic usually have whitetail clover/fusion growing, and the soil is darker. I just planted a field in bulldog alfalfa, so I will be interested to see what happens with it.
I think its also important to have good food available when the deer need it. They really need it coming out of the rut and into fawning time. I also think, especially in Alabama, that you have to have something that is strong into August and September. If its dry, the stuff in the woods dries up in a hurry. Thats why I like clover so much, but if its dry, then it struggles some too. Sunn Hemp is my go to there.
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Turkey_neck]
#4107769
03/27/24 09:20 AM
03/27/24 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,815 Xroads
Backwards cowboy
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,815
Xroads
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Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question. That was my first thought I ain’t allowing it on my property. I have heard this, my neighbor who just uses his place to hunt strictly forbids it for that reason. I have cattle and use it on my pastures and hay fields all the time. Neither of have seen where it has effected the turkey population in any way. Not saying it won't, but hasn't for me
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: 3toe]
#4108294
03/28/24 09:36 AM
03/28/24 09:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326 Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail
OP
4 point
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OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 326
Northwest Alabama
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Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question. I had concerns when we first started spreading the chicken litter, but our turkey numbers have only continued to grow.
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: BigEd]
#4127604
05/06/24 03:58 PM
05/06/24 03:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 424 Auburn, AL
Antlerfluke
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 424
Auburn, AL
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More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because. Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year.
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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd
[Re: Antlerfluke]
#4127826
05/06/24 10:25 PM
05/06/24 10:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,726
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,726
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More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because. Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year. And on a property that small, all 11 of those buck fawns born to the does living there, would have dispersed off onto surrounding properties in a 2-10 mile radius. Do some research on buck fawn dispersal. Unless you’ve got thousands of acres, 90% of the young bucks you see on your property will have been born somewhere else and dispersed over onto you. It’s a major reason why what your neighbors and neighbors neighbors are doing and shooting, really affects what you’re able to do and accomplish management wise on your property
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