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Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4105265
03/22/24 04:37 PM
03/22/24 04:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,462
Central Alabama
MC21 Offline
10 point
MC21  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,462
Central Alabama
Im really confused here. Are the deer on this property starving? it looks like a well used field to me. Not sure how one is supposed to determine if there are too many deer on this property from this picture. I got invited to a 500 acre property this year because they "had to many does" there fields looked a lot worse than this. They had not taken a doe off of that property in over 5 years. they also did not allow gun hunting on that property until after Christmas and you couldn't shoot a doe with a rifle. so when I went i took my crossbow. I was sitting on a 1/2 acre plot with a corn pile 40 yards in front of my stand. I had 11 deer come in to that corn pile at around 4 in the afternoon. I shot the biggest doe in the group. The 3 guys that hunted the property were hunting that day and they all saw at least 6 or more does and we all killed a doe that afternoon. They wanted 5 does killed off the property and we almost did it that in one afternoon. Even though I was happy to shoot a doe for them, I'm still not sold that they had "too many does" every deer we killed was close to 100 pounds I don't think they were starving.

So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property? This is directed at the OP

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: MC21] #4105344
03/22/24 06:15 PM
03/22/24 06:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,626
Elmore County
T
treemydog Online content
8 point
treemydog  Online Content
8 point
T
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,626
Elmore County
Originally Posted by MC21
So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property?


Million dollar question. And don't let anyone tell you that a quick site visit and property walk through can give anyone the answer.


You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: MC21] #4105367
03/22/24 07:02 PM
03/22/24 07:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail Online content OP
4 point
SEWoodsWhitetail  Online Content OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
Originally Posted by MC21
Im really confused here. Are the deer on this property starving? it looks like a well used field to me. Not sure how one is supposed to determine if there are too many deer on this property from this picture. I got invited to a 500 acre property this year because they "had to many does" there fields looked a lot worse than this. They had not taken a doe off of that property in over 5 years. they also did not allow gun hunting on that property until after Christmas and you couldn't shoot a doe with a rifle. so when I went i took my crossbow. I was sitting on a 1/2 acre plot with a corn pile 40 yards in front of my stand. I had 11 deer come in to that corn pile at around 4 in the afternoon. I shot the biggest doe in the group. The 3 guys that hunted the property were hunting that day and they all saw at least 6 or more does and we all killed a doe that afternoon. They wanted 5 does killed off the property and we almost did it that in one afternoon. Even though I was happy to shoot a doe for them, I'm still not sold that they had "too many does" every deer we killed was close to 100 pounds I don't think they were starving.

So my question is how do you determine when there are to many deer on a property? This is directed at the OP


It depends on what your goals are. If all you want to do is see the maximum amount of deer, then don't shoot does. My goal is to grow mature bucks that express their maximum potential.

Antlers are an indication of excess in a buck's life and there is higher competition for resources on my property than I'd like. My deer aren't starving, but I don't want any nutritional stress, or any other stress for that matter, on my deer at any stage of their lives to a greater extent than what is absolutely guaranteed.


In a world of food plotters, be a habitat manager.
https://woodsandwhitetail.com/
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4105610
03/23/24 09:56 AM
03/23/24 09:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 11,338
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
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Earth
^^^
Yes

And i dont shoot many does in tville cause i dont hav huge numbers amd did not shoot them on plots this year

I hate the stress on shooting lot of does and i need to shoot many in camden - just hav not taken the time. The huge numbers not only eat most of the food - they spook bucks off the food - got some old matriarch snorters that been needing to go - they snort at nothing when wind right

And my deer n camden way - way thinner - all places dont hav unlimited food - u hav a carrying capacity

I got a couple of studs n tville that can reach some potential next year if they make it. Hate the rain but great for growing deer

Lot less eyes around your field to if not over run


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4105650
03/23/24 10:46 AM
03/23/24 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,447
Here
Okatuppa Offline
10 point
Okatuppa  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,447
Here
Based on the acreages that you stated in your original post, you’re gonna need a high fence.


I ain't fightin nobody that swings around in trees with a running chainsaw like Tarzan. - FurFlyin

Oh I just thought u were a dumba$$ 🤣 my apologies… - jb20
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4106717
03/25/24 03:34 PM
03/25/24 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,573
Chelsea
L
Lockjaw Offline
14 point
Lockjaw  Offline
14 point
L
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,573
Chelsea
Wait you want to grow mature bucks that express their potential, but did I read right that field isn't even soil tested?

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4106740
03/25/24 04:10 PM
03/25/24 04:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,406
Crenshaw
C
CrappieMan Offline
8 point
CrappieMan  Offline
8 point
C
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,406
Crenshaw
Let's just say you have a 2.5 yr old on your property that shows genetic potential to blow up to 150 plus. His momma may have had the genetic that was passed to him. Start killing does and you may kill off your dominant genetic.

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: CrappieMan] #4106974
03/26/24 05:24 AM
03/26/24 05:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,311
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,311
colbert county
Originally Posted by CrappieMan
Let's just say you have a 2.5 yr old on your property that shows genetic potential to blow up to 150 plus. His momma may have had the genetic that was passed to him. Start killing does and you may kill off your dominant genetic.



You’ll never know. Odds would be momma doe would be a few miles away.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4106975
03/26/24 05:26 AM
03/26/24 05:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,311
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,311
colbert county
If that pic is very recent that is a lot of browsing pressure. This time of year food sources especially this year, are pretty ample for browsing deer.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: Lockjaw] #4107293
03/26/24 01:23 PM
03/26/24 01:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail Online content OP
4 point
SEWoodsWhitetail  Online Content OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
Originally Posted by Lockjaw
Wait you want to grow mature bucks that express their potential, but did I read right that field isn't even soil tested?



I have a soil test on my plots. This particular plot has a pH around 6.5 and I could fertilize it exactly to spec, but

1. It's cheaper to have chicken litter spread.
2. I don't have to spread it
3. It's not as bad for the soil as extensive use of synthetic fertilizers.
4. It still works well


In a world of food plotters, be a habitat manager.
https://woodsandwhitetail.com/
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4107633
03/27/24 04:15 AM
03/27/24 04:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,688
South Alabama
R
Rebelman Offline
Freak of Nature
Rebelman  Offline
Freak of Nature
R
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,688
South Alabama
Remember all the fun you had seeing and shooting does so you can tell your children/grandchildren stories of the he good ole days.

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4107705
03/27/24 08:39 AM
03/27/24 08:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,518
Helena
3
3toe Offline
Talking Turkey
3toe  Offline
Talking Turkey
3
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,518
Helena
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question.

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: 3toe] #4107709
03/27/24 08:50 AM
03/27/24 08:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,666
Clanton
Turkey_neck Offline
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Turkey_neck  Offline
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Clanton
Originally Posted by 3toe
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question.

That was my first thought I ain’t allowing it on my property.


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4107742
03/27/24 09:35 AM
03/27/24 09:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,573
Chelsea
L
Lockjaw Offline
14 point
Lockjaw  Offline
14 point
L
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,573
Chelsea
My best understanding from all the research I have done is the best way to have better quality bucks starts with a healthy doe. Be that your food quality, which I think plays a big role, to limiting the number of doe's, you have to start there. I run alot of cameras on different green fields, and the fields I have that get the most traffic usually have whitetail clover/fusion growing, and the soil is darker. I just planted a field in bulldog alfalfa, so I will be interested to see what happens with it.

I think its also important to have good food available when the deer need it. They really need it coming out of the rut and into fawning time. I also think, especially in Alabama, that you have to have something that is strong into August and September. If its dry, the stuff in the woods dries up in a hurry. Thats why I like clover so much, but if its dry, then it struggles some too. Sunn Hemp is my go to there.

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: Turkey_neck] #4107769
03/27/24 10:20 AM
03/27/24 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,222
Xroads
B
Backwards cowboy Offline
8 point
Backwards cowboy  Offline
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B
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Posts: 1,222
Xroads
Originally Posted by Turkey_neck
Originally Posted by 3toe
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question.

That was my first thought I ain’t allowing it on my property.



I have heard this, my neighbor who just uses his place to hunt strictly forbids it for that reason. I have cattle and use it on my pastures and hay fields all the time. Neither of have seen where it has effected the turkey population in any way. Not saying it won't, but hasn't for me

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4108029
03/27/24 07:53 PM
03/27/24 07:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,341
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
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Posts: 8,341
Right behind you
Doe harvest should be objective driven. If it’s not achieving your objectives, then don’t do it. If it is then do it. I’m sure he’s got very justifiable reasons for wanting to kill a few does, just like some of you don’t. Doe harvest is not a one size fits all.

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: 3toe] #4108294
03/28/24 10:36 AM
03/28/24 10:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail Online content OP
4 point
SEWoodsWhitetail  Online Content OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
Originally Posted by 3toe
Have you seen any negative impacts on your turkeys after spreading all the chicken litter? Not trying to derail, but the mention of chicken litter being spread had me wanting to ask the question.


I had concerns when we first started spreading the chicken litter, but our turkey numbers have only continued to grow.


In a world of food plotters, be a habitat manager.
https://woodsandwhitetail.com/
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: SEWoodsWhitetail] #4108301
03/28/24 10:45 AM
03/28/24 10:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
SEWoodsWhitetail Online content OP
4 point
SEWoodsWhitetail  Online Content OP
4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 305
Northwest Alabama
It's not loaded directly from the chicken houses onto the truck either. They pile it and allow it to compost for a while and apparently this breaks down the pathogens.


In a world of food plotters, be a habitat manager.
https://woodsandwhitetail.com/
Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: BigEd] #4127604
05/06/24 04:58 PM
05/06/24 04:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 401
Auburn, AL
A
Antlerfluke Offline
4 point
Antlerfluke  Offline
4 point
A
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 401
Auburn, AL
Originally Posted by BigEd
More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because.


Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year.

Re: For the Don’t Shoot Does Crowd [Re: Antlerfluke] #4127826
05/06/24 11:25 PM
05/06/24 11:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,698
A
abolt300 Offline
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abolt300  Offline
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Posts: 10,698
Originally Posted by Antlerfluke
Originally Posted by BigEd
More doe killing won't help. I have a somewhat similar situation. For 20 years there were an average of 14 does a year killed in the field. Didn't matter how many you killed there were just as many the next year. My cousin and I got tired of killing them, we still see equivalent numbers, not more not less, and the same ratio of bucks. There was only one deer killed this year, a 4.5 yo 9 point. Hopefully the bucks we let walk made it, there are 2 will be 4.5yo or better next year. Some decent younguns coming along also. We may invite some kids to come kill a doe or three this year just because.


Listen to what you're saying! You killed does and "There were just as many the next year." Wouldn't it make sense that had you not killed 14 does that you'd had those 14 does plus, let's say 1.5 fawns per doe which would be 21 fawns plus the 14 does. That's 31 extra deer you'd seen! You can't look at it like you're looking at it. You're totally missing the deer you took out of the herd and you're TOTALLY missing the offspring that would have been there. Approx 11 of those fawns would have been bucks, but don't worry about the bucks that could've been. The key is to keep the carrying capacity of the land in check. AND... carrying capacity changes each year.


And on a property that small, all 11 of those buck fawns born to the does living there, would have dispersed off onto surrounding properties in a 2-10 mile radius. Do some research on buck fawn dispersal. Unless you’ve got thousands of acres, 90% of the young bucks you see on your property will have been born somewhere else and dispersed over onto you. It’s a major reason why what your neighbors and neighbors neighbors are doing and shooting, really affects what you’re able to do and accomplish management wise on your property

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