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7 registered members (Tree Dweller, Captain Howdy, mauvilla, Longtine, FastXD, Morris, auman),
784
guests, and 0
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: chevydude2015]
#4099839
03/11/24 10:45 PM
03/11/24 10:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,463 North of 459 South of 20
bhammedic84
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,463
North of 459 South of 20
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majority is leased timber land and when a timber co tells you they are for "wildlife habitat management" then they have lied to your face.
all they want is to cut timber and replace it with pines. spray the understory and rinse and repeat
Turkey’s tell you when they want to die not lawmakers.
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: bhammedic84]
#4099850
03/11/24 11:43 PM
03/11/24 11:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,642 Montgomery, AL
Forrestgump1
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,642
Montgomery, AL
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majority is leased timber land and when a timber co tells you they are for "wildlife habitat management" then they have lied to your face.
all they want is to cut timber and replace it with pines. spray the understory and rinse and repeat Exactly, why not offer incentive.
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: chevydude2015]
#4099875
03/12/24 05:42 AM
03/12/24 05:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,443 northport
deadeye48
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,443
northport
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I agree with his statement Guys the only incentive we will ever see is knowing that trapping/predator elimination and habitat management are the only way we will see our deer and turkey thrive and that is solely on us The state or fed will never offer anything except more regulations and more fees When will we learn that the name of the game is not Conservation
Last edited by deadeye48; 03/12/24 05:43 AM.
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself The older I get the better I used to be
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: deadeye48]
#4099877
03/12/24 05:50 AM
03/12/24 05:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,510 Mobile, AL
Pwyse
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,510
Mobile, AL
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I agree with his statement Guys the only incentive we will ever see is knowing that trapping/predator elimination and habitat management are the only way we will see our deer and turkey thrive and that is solely on us The state or fed will never offer anything except more regulations and more fees When will we learn that the name of the game is not Conservation This is so true. Trapping coons was the key to changing the turkey population in the club I was in until recently. One guy started trapping coons because they were eating all the deer corn and then some others joined in, and it made a world of difference. The turkey population there is booming and it’s just typical loblolly timber company habitat. You just have to out in the time and effort to get rid of them.
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: chevydude2015]
#4100093
03/12/24 02:28 PM
03/12/24 02:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,887 shelby county
buzzard
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,887
shelby county
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We are hammering them this year on our place as best as we can. Between a thinning on one piece of the property and a bare ground cutover on another end there are brush piles everywhere. Nothing but predator dens!!. I wish I could light fire to all of them and shoot whatever comes out.
"Hell with them fellows, buzzard got to eat same as a worm" Josey Wales
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: Forrestgump1]
#4100266
03/12/24 07:59 PM
03/12/24 07:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,789 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,789
USA
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He would be correct on habitat and predator management being the two keys to turkeys. However, taking a shot at state agencies who can only control when and how many you harvest legally is a low blow. Agree, what is the state supposed to do? Control burn private acres they don't have access to? Trap coons on land they don't have access to?
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: Remington270]
#4100292
03/12/24 08:30 PM
03/12/24 08:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,443 northport
deadeye48
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,443
northport
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He would be correct on habitat and predator management being the two keys to turkeys. However, taking a shot at state agencies who can only control when and how many you harvest legally is a low blow. Agree, what is the state supposed to do? Control burn private acres they don't have access to? Trap coons on land they don't have access to? The state has access to tens of thousands of acres to trap and try different management methods rather than implement something state wide before they know the science is accurate
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself The older I get the better I used to be
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: deadeye48]
#4100298
03/12/24 08:50 PM
03/12/24 08:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,642 Montgomery, AL
Forrestgump1
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,642
Montgomery, AL
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He would be correct on habitat and predator management being the two keys to turkeys. However, taking a shot at state agencies who can only control when and how many you harvest legally is a low blow. Agree, what is the state supposed to do? Control burn private acres they don't have access to? Trap coons on land they don't have access to? The state has access to tens of thousands of acres to trap and try different management methods rather than implement something state wide before they know the science is accurate Correct but we are still talking about the same thing. Private lands managed for proper habitat and that are managed for predation more than likely have plenty of birds. The states access to public lands Is still a super small sample in the grand scheme of things. Not only is it small, from what I understand a large amount of the public lands to include some SOAs are long term leases, meaning they don’t have full rights to do as they please, such as burn. If the state offered incentives for timber companies and private landowners to burn and manage habitat I think we would see more people burning and not just harvesting timber and holding. I don’t know if what the incentive would be or how to go about it, but it makes since if the state is truly concerned about the resource.
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: Forrestgump1]
#4100366
03/12/24 10:09 PM
03/12/24 10:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,204 South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,204
South Alabama
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He would be correct on habitat and predator management being the two keys to turkeys. However, taking a shot at state agencies who can only control when and how many you harvest legally is a low blow. Agree, what is the state supposed to do? Control burn private acres they don't have access to? Trap coons on land they don't have access to? The state has access to tens of thousands of acres to trap and try different management methods rather than implement something state wide before they know the science is accurate Correct but we are still talking about the same thing. Private lands managed for proper habitat and that are managed for predation more than likely have plenty of birds. The states access to public lands Is still a super small sample in the grand scheme of things. Not only is it small, from what I understand a large amount of the public lands to include some SOAs are long term leases, meaning they don’t have full rights to do as they please, such as burn. If the state offered incentives for timber companies and private landowners to burn and manage habitat I think we would see more people burning and not just harvesting timber and holding. I don’t know if what the incentive would be or how to go about it, but it makes since if the state is truly concerned about the resource. Why not take a shot at the State agencies??? Not a low blow at all - they deserve it. They are the ones setting regulations based on weak science and theories. They are the ones that say there is nothing else they can do. They are the ones blaming the hunter. They wont do anything about feeding corn, decoys, or habitat management on their own lands. If they are serious about turkeys, they would make the State owned management areas a shining example of turkey management, burned and thinned - be able to take field tours to show off wildlife and habitat management, instead they are poorly managed ground with a few foodplots planted very little different than timber company lands. No regulation on harvest or pressure which they have FULL control over. And 90% of the turkey research that indicates turkey declines comes from State and Fed owned land not well managed or even managed private land. I can tell you that the private land we work with are NOT seeing a turkey decline. Their habitat and predator populations are well managed and the turkeys are doing fine. If "Private lands managed for proper habitat and that are managed for predation more than likely have plenty of birds." then why are they subject to the lower limits and shortened seasons imposed by the State? There are PLENTY of "incentive" programs for burning by the Feds but no reason for timber co''s to take advantage of them - too much liability. However, if you care about turkeys (like the State should), that should be incentive enough to burn and trap. Why do you need Momma government to pay for your turkey management. Our State cares so much about turkeys that we are the only State of all the southeastern States that does not have any ongoing State funded turkey research - literally every State around us is actively involved in cutting edge turkey research funded by the State.
Last edited by gobbler; 03/12/24 10:16 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: Mbrock]
#4100436
03/13/24 07:38 AM
03/13/24 07:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,443 northport
deadeye48
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,443
northport
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If the state spent as much time on educating the public AND demonstrating proper habitat management on public lands, like gobbler said, they’d get a lot better results. All the information being concluded from these later starting dates is NOT supporting their theory. It’s refuting it. Meanwhile, they’re handing out awards for the state’s exemplary example of conservation leaders. It’s pathetic. I have to admit I was on the fence on some of these things years ago when the theories were first presented, but I’ve come full circle understanding they’re grasping at nonsense to correct a problem that is much more likely to resolve itself through gaining public trust again by properly educating the public on sound habitat management actions. They’ve already lost the public’s attention at this point. Gaining it back will be very difficult. With the current admin they will never gain public trust again
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself The older I get the better I used to be
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: mathews prostaff]
#4100498
03/13/24 09:19 AM
03/13/24 09:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,906 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,906
Elmore County
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I've said it a thousand times I'll say it again if all u kill is longbeards you cannot kill em out. when season started on 15th the majority of the hens had been bred at least once so the gobbler is a surplus bird at that point. I think it ought to be against the law to shoot a jake he is your seed for next year. look this up "Occasionally, the eggs of female turkeys will — without any sperm involved — spontaneously develop into embryos and then into baby turkeys (which are always males). This process is called parthenogenesis ."
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: tbest3]
#4100501
03/13/24 09:23 AM
03/13/24 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,838 North Jackson
ridgestalker
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,838
North Jackson
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Gobbler and MBrock said what I came here to say. What is the state supposed to do? Let’s start with not slashing season dates and hunter opportunity with no data or fact to back it up. Let’s take a note from Adam Butler and Mississippi, I think they’ve handled it well.
Somebody correct me, but isn’t there a study out there by Dr. Craig Harper in TN that showed that pushing start dates back to coincide with peak nesting had no positive impact on poult recruitment?
I don’t know but they didn’t listen. They pushed opening day back two more weeks this year. April 15-May 26. Insane
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: Mark Buxton - Comment on Turkeys
[Re: tbest3]
#4100578
03/13/24 12:51 PM
03/13/24 12:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,118 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,118
Sylacauga, AL
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Gobbler and MBrock said what I came here to say. What is the state supposed to do? Let’s start with not slashing season dates and hunter opportunity with no data or fact to back it up. Let’s take a note from Adam Butler and Mississippi, I think they’ve handled it well.
Somebody correct me, but isn’t there a study out there by Dr. Craig Harper in TN that showed that pushing start dates back to coincide with peak nesting had no positive impact on poult recruitment?
I've always said that the most important incentive the state can give to landowners is a stable season and limit. I hate that we have already lost a bird from the bag limit, along with the best 10 days of the season, but what is far worse is knowing they aren't done. The director has made it very clear that he wants both reduced a lot more; just looking for anything to justify it. Turkey management isn't a short term deal, and the uncertainty keeps people from being willing to make a longer term commitment. The result is fewer turkeys.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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