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The F-16 Fighting Falcon... #4096772
03/07/24 07:26 AM
03/07/24 07:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
I read a story today in my news feed that the first production Block 70 F-16's were rolling off the new assembly line in Greeneville, NC. 40 of them are slated to be delivered to Bahrain. As each one is built and tested, apparently each one takes off and simply flies straight to Bahrain (I assume with refueling stops and pee breaks) from North Carolina. It made me wonder what that trip was like for the transport pilots.

All that got me thinking about the F-16 and what an amazing fighter aircraft it has been for the United states and our allies. The YF-16 achieved it's first supersonic flight on February 5th, 1974. I was 12 years old and a big Popular Science and Popular Mechanics reader. I remember reading about it and thinking that it was the most futuristic badass thing I had ever seen. That was 50 years ago. Depending on which source you look at there are about 3000 F-16's currently in use around the World. The US has about 1000 in service in our Air Force. And we are still innovating and upgrading them.

What an amazing aircraft. I read where Lockheed - Martin says they will be in operation through the 2060's.

"New production F-16s leverage structural and capability upgrades that ensure the international F-16 fleet can operate to 2060 and beyond."

More reading for those interested...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

i know the F-35 is badass, but if you were a smaller country and wanted the most bang for your buck and wanted something easy to maintain and relatively low cost with a 12,000 air frame, the F-16 is still the deal.

Thought I'd throw in a picture, because everybody loves pics...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Irishguy; 03/07/24 07:31 AM.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096782
03/07/24 07:43 AM
03/07/24 07:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,168
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
GomerPyle  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,168
Northport, AL

They can beat an f-22 and f-35 in a straight up dogfight too (if you take away the 22/35 stealth capabilities and force an up close fight). Obviously in the real world, they’d kill the Viper before it ever saw them, but in an old school fight, it dominates them


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: GomerPyle] #4096791
03/07/24 07:55 AM
03/07/24 07:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
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Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by GomerPyle

They can beat an f-22 and f-35 in a straight up dogfight too (if you take away the 22/35 stealth capabilities and force an up close fight). Obviously in the real world, they’d kill the Viper before it ever saw them, but in an old school fight, it dominates them


Yep... Super agile. The US Navy and Marines uses them as aggressor aircraft IIRC...

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: GomerPyle] #4096803
03/07/24 08:12 AM
03/07/24 08:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 312
Alabama, Jackson County
M
MarkAlan Offline
4 point
MarkAlan  Offline
4 point
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 312
Alabama, Jackson County
Originally Posted by GomerPyle

They can beat an f-22 and f-35 in a straight up dogfight too (if you take away the 22/35 stealth capabilities and force an up close fight). Obviously in the real world, they’d kill the Viper before it ever saw them, but in an old school fight, it dominates them


This is true, But the whole idea is to not get in a dog fight. I am not convinced it could beat a 22. With vectored thrust and such on the 22 it would be very difficult. Back when everyone was saying the 22 was junk and not needed they did a test for them. They launched 5 F15's and a F22 as a test and the F22 got all 5 before they could even take a shot. That is important because not a single F15 has been lost in air to air.

Some of the pilots that I know said during the gulf war, they flew out of the US nonstop to the gulf. They packed about 5 meals with them, and everyone said the worst thing about it is if you look at where the pilot is located, the part up in the canopy is very hot, and waist down is freezing due to the way the AC works.

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: MarkAlan] #4096808
03/07/24 08:22 AM
03/07/24 08:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 759
Alabama
chevydude2015 Offline
4 point
chevydude2015  Offline
4 point
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 759
Alabama
Originally Posted by MarkAlan
Originally Posted by GomerPyle

They can beat an f-22 and f-35 in a straight up dogfight too (if you take away the 22/35 stealth capabilities and force an up close fight). Obviously in the real world, they’d kill the Viper before it ever saw them, but in an old school fight, it dominates them


This is true, But the whole idea is to not get in a dog fight. I am not convinced it could beat a 22. With vectored thrust and such on the 22 it would be very difficult. Back when everyone was saying the 22 was junk and not needed they did a test for them. They launched 5 F15's and a F22 as a test and the F22 got all 5 before they could even take a shot. That is important because not a single F15 has been lost in air to air.

Some of the pilots that I know said during the gulf war, they flew out of the US nonstop to the gulf. They packed about 5 meals with them, and everyone said the worst thing about it is if you look at where the pilot is located, the part up in the canopy is very hot, and waist down is freezing due to the way the AC works.


Yep, I highly doubt an F16 would take out an F22…most of the F22 capabilities are classified and it has never been used in actual combat so we don’t even know half of what it’s capable of.

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096810
03/07/24 08:25 AM
03/07/24 08:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,269
Greene County, Ala
H
Happysappy Offline
8 point
Happysappy  Offline
8 point
H
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,269
Greene County, Ala
Originally Posted by Irishguy
I read a story today in my news feed that the first production Block 70 F-16's were rolling off the new assembly line in Greeneville, NC. 40 of them are slated to be delivered to Bahrain. As each one is built and tested, apparently each one takes off and simply flies straight to Bahrain (I assume with refueling stops and pee breaks) from North Carolina. It made me wonder what that trip was like for the transport pilots.

All that got me thinking about the F-16 and what an amazing fighter aircraft it has been for the United states and our allies. The YF-16 achieved it's first supersonic flight on February 5th, 1974. I was 12 years old and a big Popular Science and Popular Mechanics reader. I remember reading about it and thinking that it was the most futuristic badass thing I had ever seen. That was 50 years ago. Depending on which source you look at there are about 3000 F-16's currently in use around the World. The US has about 1000 in service in our Air Force. And we are still innovating and upgrading them.

What an amazing aircraft. I read where Lockheed - Martin says they will be in operation through the 2060's.

"New production F-16s leverage structural and capability upgrades that ensure the international F-16 fleet can operate to 2060 and beyond."

More reading for those interested...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

i know the F-35 is badass, but if you were a smaller country and wanted the most bang for your buck and wanted something easy to maintain and relatively low cost with a 12,000 air frame, the F-16 is still the deal.

Thought I'd throw in a picture, because everybody loves pics...

[Linked Image]



What are those two bulges behind the canopy, Ive not seen that version…


If at first you dont succeed, You may not want to try parachuting
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Happysappy] #4096814
03/07/24 08:30 AM
03/07/24 08:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by Happysappy

What are those two bulges behind the canopy, Ive not seen that version…


Additional fuel tanks...

"Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFT) - These tanks are manufactured by the "Israel Aircraft Industries" and increase the aircraft's amount of internal fuel by 50%. Their purpose is to significantly prolong the aircraft's flight range and ability to remain in the air. The tanks are installed the plane's back and conform to it's figure."


I'm not sure, but I think they are on all Block 70's now.

Last edited by Irishguy; 03/07/24 08:32 AM.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096815
03/07/24 08:30 AM
03/07/24 08:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline OP
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,700
Lickskillet, AL
Yeah... But the F-22's cost the taxpayers, huge money and we didn't export them to help spread out the costs.

"To put the F-22's $350 million in perspective consider that a General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon costs about $63 million."

So you can get about 6 or 7 F-16's for the price of one F-22.

There's a lot of reasons the Congress killed the F-22 production.

My understanding is the maintenance is a nightmare.

"Although the USAF had originally planned to buy a total of 750 ATFs, the program was cut to 187 production aircraft in 2009 due to high costs, a lack of air-to-air missions at the time of production, and the development of the more affordable and versatile F-35. The last aircraft was delivered in 2012."

Last edited by Irishguy; 03/07/24 08:45 AM.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096824
03/07/24 08:49 AM
03/07/24 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,730
behind my Dillon
dave260rem! Offline
Skinny’s Ex
dave260rem!  Offline
Skinny’s Ex
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,730
behind my Dillon
Old man Pete called F16s sheathers when anyone rattled the war sabers Pete said we should buzz them with the f16 to remind them who we are.


Skinny is my EX.Alcohol was involved.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096837
03/07/24 09:09 AM
03/07/24 09:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,017
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
Booner
gman  Offline
Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,017
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
And to think, they were designed and produced as a "cheap" alternative to the f15. 2 of the top 5 greatest air to air fighters ever built.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096861
03/07/24 09:39 AM
03/07/24 09:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,388
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
Booner
goodman_hunter  Offline
Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,388
coffee county
thought this was interesting
clip
The increased power and precision of the AN/APG-83 improves its synthetic aperture mapping capabilities, producing higher-resolution images. Some AESA radars also have innate electronic protection and attack capabilities, using highly focused beams of electromagnetic energy to non-kinetically disrupt or even damage the electronics within enemy aircraft, missiles, and other systems.


For without victory, there is no survival
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096866
03/07/24 09:42 AM
03/07/24 09:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 312
Alabama, Jackson County
M
MarkAlan Offline
4 point
MarkAlan  Offline
4 point
M
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 312
Alabama, Jackson County
The F16 was also a lawn dart when they first rolled out. They had an electromagnetic interference issue since they were fly by wire and not the cable system. The first ones also and a fixed stick and moved by applying pressure to the stick that the computer moved the plane in that direction. This was replaced with a movable stick because the pilots kept trying to push the stick and would apply more pressure since it didnt move. They almost had several crashes due to this.

Yes you can get 6 or 7 for the price of one. You can also have 10 to 20 taken out before one 22 gets shot down. If you cant see it you cant shoot it. Any stealth plane it difficult to maintain, look at the 117. The 22 is a lot easier than the 117. The 35 is easier than the 22.

The 35 is more affordable. They also traded performance for cost. Oh yes they also say it lowered the cost by spreading it out with other branches. But I you look at the three different branches maybe 20 percent of the aircraft would be the same. Designing it with other countries lowered cost, no not really, because we do not share the same avionics and good stuff with them, even the airframe is different in many ways.

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096890
03/07/24 10:13 AM
03/07/24 10:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,342
Alabama
W
whack-n-stack Offline
Booner
whack-n-stack  Offline
Booner
W
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,342
Alabama
0.7 miles to the gallon at cruising speed.

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4096899
03/07/24 10:28 AM
03/07/24 10:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,177
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,177
B'ham


Cool.

I always like to know a lot of details about the military equipment our President is threatening to use against us........


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4097061
03/07/24 02:44 PM
03/07/24 02:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,303
Mobile, al
M
Mike59 Offline
10 point
Mike59  Offline
10 point
M
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Posts: 3,303
Mobile, al
The Fighting Falcon.... bad azzness right there....I'm still way fond of the F-14 Tomcat though....

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Mike59] #4097070
03/07/24 02:51 PM
03/07/24 02:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,673
B
BPI Offline
14 point
BPI  Offline
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B
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Posts: 9,673
Originally Posted by Mike59
The Fighting Falcon.... bad azzness right there....I'm still way fond of the F-14 Tomcat though....


Top Gun made that jet fighter famous. My personal favorite is the F-15.

Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: BPI] #4097072
03/07/24 02:57 PM
03/07/24 02:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,168
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
GomerPyle  Offline
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Posts: 20,168
Northport, AL
Originally Posted by BPI
Originally Posted by Mike59
The Fighting Falcon.... bad azzness right there....I'm still way fond of the F-14 Tomcat though....


Top Gun made that jet fighter famous. My personal favorite is the F-15.

They're working on a new variant of the F-15 that should make it as good or possibly even better than the F22 and F35


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4097193
03/07/24 06:28 PM
03/07/24 06:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,740
Montgomery
bamaeyedoc Offline
Old Mossy Horns
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Montgomery
According to my BIL who is a retired Air Force CMS, had top secret clearances, has a PhD in finance, and has forgotten more about tactical air weaponry than most folks ever know, the F-35 is NOT the end all, be all with the fighters. It’s really not an upgrade at all. Waste of billions as usual. He went on that rant a while back before it was launched.


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Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4097237
03/07/24 07:19 PM
03/07/24 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,320
Hoover
F
Fattyfireplug Offline
Booner
Fattyfireplug  Offline
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F
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Posts: 14,320
Hoover
I watch a LOT of videos and documentaries about aircraft. One I watched was a pilot who'd flown the F14, F18, F18 Superhornet in service. He also had flown the F15 and F16 for aggressor training. He was asked what aircraft he'd fly if he could only have one more flight. He said the F16 for the pure joy of flying. Said it was the most fun and responsive plane he flew. That says a lot about the aircraft.

The F16 can compete with just about any aircraft in production today under the right circumstances. It cannot take down an F22 or F35 unless those aircraft are handicapped sufficiently for it to happen. Not just stealth either. There are other handicaps such as external fuel tanks, wing loads and limits on where and how they can operate.

For me, the new F15EX is a boss. Bigger, farther, faster, all the newest tech and damn what a load it can carry. They can now be used a an arms platform to carry huge payloads. They are guided by the F35. The enemy never sees the F35 or F22. They'd only see the F15 and by the time that's happened air dominance has likely already been achieved.

What keeps the F16 and F15 in service is their operating cost per hour and service life of the components. F18 Superhornet and Growler aren't going anywhere anytime soon either. The F35 may eventually send the A10 to the boneyard.

Last edited by Fattyfireplug; 03/07/24 07:20 PM.

Character is not developed in moments of temptation and trial. That is when it is intended to be used.
Re: The F-16 Fighting Falcon... [Re: Irishguy] #4097311
03/07/24 08:44 PM
03/07/24 08:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,146
GA
UncleHuck Offline
10 point
UncleHuck  Offline
10 point
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,146
GA

All the AF guys hate the A10 except the ones flying it. Ground troops love it because of close air support.

The military industrial complex folks hate the A10 because it works so well and is way cheaper than the new, high speed, low drag, super cool, new toys that get generals invited on "fact finding" missions in exotic locations and lines their pockets in the process.

The A-10 is awesome for it's low cost, extreme durability, and serious capabilities.

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