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Shooting Does (a spinoff) #4088942
02/23/24 12:27 AM
02/23/24 12:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,700
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline OP
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,700
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Back when it was imperative on our hunting land that we decrease our deer populations we were given 100 tags and told when we filled those for me to call and they will send 100 more. We killed 138 does that year. We are fortunate enough to be friends with a top notch Wildlife biologist that used to grace us with his presence until it became apparent that most of Aldeer knew more about Wildlife Management than he did so I don't see him on here much any more. I asked him in the middle of our slaughtering does how we were going to know when we've killed enough and his answer is one everybody needs to know. He said you will know you've killed enough when you quit seeing them if you continue to hunt the same way. They are smart and keep killing them off of plots and you'll quit seeing them. They are still there but they have survival instincts too and learn to avoid hunters and their haunts. His point was, you're not going to kill too many does.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4088954
02/23/24 06:16 AM
02/23/24 06:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,850
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,850
colbert county
Honestly I think it came from trying to right a wrong. After years and years of buck a day killing sex ratios were really skewed which led to some some long and drawn out rutting activity. That led to stressed bucks from the rigors of breeding. A really bad scenario for the overall deer herd health.
The goal is a balanced deer herd of buck to doe ratio and plenty of food available. It’s that simple.

To maintain the deer herd a diverse age class of bucks and does with the does being the key to increasing, maintaining or reducing the local population

Problem is a group of hunters will screw that up every time without proper information and management based on feelings.



“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4088986
02/23/24 07:57 AM
02/23/24 07:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,335
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,335
Boxes Cove
Lota truth Jawbone. You bang the crap out of them on plots , they get shy in a hurry. We used to shoot A LOT early season off plots. The first week of season my son and I were rough on them. By the second week , you couldn't buy one on a plot . Wasn't cause they weren't there either. And too your last sentence , as far as these mountains in Jackson Co. it's mighty hard to kill too many . Too many good hiding places. You need to know your property and deer and adjust as needed. Some property just will not support a lot of deer , even though the hunters think it should. You can have a lot of deer if you have food for them. Deer are easy to manage , people not so much.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089029
02/23/24 09:04 AM
02/23/24 09:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 517
Behind some dogs
000buck Offline
4 point
000buck  Offline
4 point
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 517
Behind some dogs
MBrock hit the nail on the head on SU the other day. “Folks don’t have a deer problem they have a Hunter problem”. If you really think about that it’s 100% accurate. Pressure is at an all time high in the woods and water. The woods are full of dummies as well. They some folks out there that should take up a hobby, like skydiving. 😁😁

Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089158
02/23/24 02:29 PM
02/23/24 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 108
Mobile, AL
W
Wahoo Offline
3 point
Wahoo  Offline
3 point
W
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 108
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by jawbone
Back when it was imperative on our hunting land that we decrease our deer populations we were given 100 tags and told when we filled those for me to call and they will send 100 more. We killed 138 does that year. We are fortunate enough to be friends with a top notch Wildlife biologist that used to grace us with his presence until it became apparent that most of Aldeer knew more about Wildlife Management than he did so I don't see him on here much any more. I asked him in the middle of our slaughtering does how we were going to know when we've killed enough and his answer is one everybody needs to know. He said you will know you've killed enough when you quit seeing them if you continue to hunt the same way. They are smart and keep killing them off of plots and you'll quit seeing them. They are still there but they have survival instincts too and learn to avoid hunters and their haunts. His point was, you're not going to kill too many does.


Lot of truth there. Toughest deer to kill where I hunt is an old nanny. And it's usually bad luck when one comes in a plot, because she will be on ultra-high alert the entire time and will spook for seemingly no reason, well before even a old buck would.

Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089161
02/23/24 02:35 PM
02/23/24 02:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,666
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,666
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by jawbone
I asked him in the middle of our slaughtering does how we were going to know when we've killed enough and his answer is one everybody needs to know. He said you will know you've killed enough when you quit seeing them if you continue to hunt the same way. They are smart and keep killing them off of plots and you'll quit seeing them. They are still there but they have survival instincts too and learn to avoid hunters and their haunts. His point was, you're not going to kill too many does.


Horrible advice to give the general hunting public......


We dont rent pigs
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: 000buck] #4089182
02/23/24 03:34 PM
02/23/24 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,331
North Birmingham
JustHunt Offline
8 point
JustHunt  Offline
8 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,331
North Birmingham
Originally Posted by 000buck
MBrock hit the nail on the head on SU the other day. “Folks don’t have a deer problem they have a Hunter problem”. If you really think about that it’s 100% accurate. Pressure is at an all time high in the woods and water. The woods are full of dummies as well. They some folks out there that should take up a hobby, like skydiving. 😁😁


Absolutely too many “hunters” in the woods nowadays.



Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: CNC] #4089185
02/23/24 03:37 PM
02/23/24 03:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,331
North Birmingham
JustHunt Offline
8 point
JustHunt  Offline
8 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,331
North Birmingham
Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by jawbone
I asked him in the middle of our slaughtering does how we were going to know when we've killed enough and his answer is one everybody needs to know. He said you will know you've killed enough when you quit seeing them if you continue to hunt the same way. They are smart and keep killing them off of plots and you'll quit seeing them. They are still there but they have survival instincts too and learn to avoid hunters and their haunts. His point was, you're not going to kill too many does.


Horrible advice to give the general hunting public......


Yep. Because they will go out and start killing does like crazy. They will ruin their population and then get on aldeer and ask why they aren’t seeing any deer on their property. Couldn’t have killed too many cause a biologist said it was impossible to kill em out.



Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: CNC] #4089193
02/23/24 03:48 PM
02/23/24 03:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,700
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline OP
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,700
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by jawbone
I asked him in the middle of our slaughtering does how we were going to know when we've killed enough and his answer is one everybody needs to know. He said you will know you've killed enough when you quit seeing them if you continue to hunt the same way. They are smart and keep killing them off of plots and you'll quit seeing them. They are still there but they have survival instincts too and learn to avoid hunters and their haunts. His point was, you're not going to kill too many does.


Horrible advice to give the general hunting public......

The PhDed professionals I have spoken to about this will say you are wrong.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089217
02/23/24 04:51 PM
02/23/24 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
USA
Originally Posted by jawbone
Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by jawbone
I asked him in the middle of our slaughtering does how we were going to know when we've killed enough and his answer is one everybody needs to know. He said you will know you've killed enough when you quit seeing them if you continue to hunt the same way. They are smart and keep killing them off of plots and you'll quit seeing them. They are still there but they have survival instincts too and learn to avoid hunters and their haunts. His point was, you're not going to kill too many does.


Horrible advice to give the general hunting public......

The PhDed professionals I have spoken to about this will say you are wrong.

I won’t say he’s wrong but if we are seeing way more does then young bucks on camera, we kill more does. If we aren’t seeing a number of does we like on camera, we don’t shoot many does. We let numbers dictate what we do. Not someone who has no idea what’s going on on our property. We have over harvest does the first few years we had our place and learned a hard lesson. It took 3 years to get back to where we like it. Won’t make that mistake again.

Last edited by marshmud991; 02/23/24 04:52 PM.

It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089221
02/23/24 05:04 PM
02/23/24 05:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,666
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,666
Awbarn, AL
The decision should be made according to the health of the “individual” animal and the condition of the habitat…….Basing it off buck to doe ratio is using the amount of bucks that get shot as your measuring stick for how many does to shoot without consideration for the potential carrying capacity………That’s badly flawed logic


We dont rent pigs
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: CNC] #4089225
02/23/24 05:13 PM
02/23/24 05:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
USA
Originally Posted by CNC
The decision should be made according to the health of the “individual” animal and the condition of the habitat…….Basing it off buck to doe ratio is using the amount of bucks that get shot as your measuring stick for how many does to shoot without consideration for the potential carrying capacity………That’s badly flawed logic

As long as our mature does we kill average 100lbs or more, we consider that really good for our area. I’m not saying what we do is right but it works for us and that all that matters. We always have a tons of young bucks on our place and if we see way more does on our place then the high number of young buck, we shoot a few more does to keep the numbers in check. It works for us.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089245
02/23/24 05:56 PM
02/23/24 05:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,666
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Online Content
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,666
Awbarn, AL
I believe you….I think though it works out because you’re in a location where the habitat isnt very fragmented and the hunters around you arent over harvesting bucks the same as they are in other areas…..If you take your situation and we add in a bunch of little neighboring squares that kill out a bunch more bucks……then taking out more of your does to match that would just be lowering your population down to lower than what the habitat could actually support.

The question of whether you have “too many does” is a matter of the health of the individual deer and the condition of the habitat……The ratio of bucks to does from there is a matter of how many bucks the hunters whack out of the herd. If you keep increasing that rate of buck harvest and whacking out more and more……shooting more does doesn’t fix that. That’s the big idea that should be recognized.

If conditions changed for you tomorrow Marsh and you kept following the same strategy, you would over shoot your doe population for the wrong reason. That’s what’s occurring in MANY other areas…..Folks think they should shoot does to try and correct an issue of everyone collectively shooting too many bucks….Its not a capacity issue. If you have healthy, vibrantly reproducing females and have a buck to doe ratio issue…..then you don’t have too many does…… your buck harvesting is too lax.


We dont rent pigs
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: CNC] #4089255
02/23/24 06:15 PM
02/23/24 06:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
USA
Originally Posted by CNC
I believe you….I think though it works out because you’re in a location where the habitat isnt very fragmented and the hunters around you arent over harvesting bucks the same as they are in other areas…..If you take your situation and we add in a bunch of little neighboring squares that kill out a bunch more bucks……then taking out more of your does to match that would just be lowering your population down to lower than what the habitat could actually support.

The question of whether you have “too many does” is a matter of the health of the individual deer and the condition of the habitat……The ratio of bucks to does from there is a matter of how many bucks the hunters whack out of the herd. If you keep increasing that rate of buck harvest and whacking out more and more……shooting more does doesn’t fix that. That’s the big idea that should be recognized.

If conditions changed for you tomorrow Marsh and you kept following the same strategy, you would over shoot your doe population for the wrong reason. That’s what’s occurring in MANY other areas…..Folks think they should shoot does to try and correct an issue of everyone collectively shooting too many bucks….Its not a capacity issue. If you have healthy, vibrantly reproducing females and have a buck to doe ratio issue…..then you don’t have too many does…… your buck harvesting is too lax.

I can tell you our buck harvests are way to laxed. We averaged about 6 mature bucks a season and we only have a couple guys that will shoot young bucks to get meat. I’m very guilty of shooting a doe for meat before shooting a young buck. However there has been years when some of us who hunt more then others had decided to each shoot a young buck instead of a doe for our meat. It’s probably not the best tool to use but the cameras out year around help us decide what we do. We also probably have a unique situation where none of our neighbors hunt or even shoot deer. It doesn’t take much for us to have “what I think” is an abundance of does and many young bucks. I understand not every location is like this but our situation dictates that we have to shoot does or young bucks every few years. Apparently we left a very strong population of does this season according to our cameras. We are still seeing a good number of doe groups on them.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089334
02/23/24 08:42 PM
02/23/24 08:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,329
Chelsea
L
Lockjaw Offline
14 point
Lockjaw  Offline
14 point
L
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 8,329
Chelsea
When I see doe's on green fields every day, then I will think I have to many.

Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089438
02/24/24 12:51 AM
02/24/24 12:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,814
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,814
Elmore County
all you gotta do is look at the fat on the dead deer you kill and know what they had to eat . IMO it aint rocket science

course im not a biologists my opinion might not count for much .

Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089440
02/24/24 01:33 AM
02/24/24 01:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,631
Montgomery, AL
F
Forrestgump1 Offline
10 point
Forrestgump1  Offline
10 point
F
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,631
Montgomery, AL
Has anyone ever hunted a property that had too many bucks?

Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: jawbone] #4089480
02/24/24 08:34 AM
02/24/24 08:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,850
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,850
colbert county
Doubtful since most will shoot a buck over a doe.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: Forrestgump1] #4089487
02/24/24 08:47 AM
02/24/24 08:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,814
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,814
Elmore County
Originally Posted by Forrestgump1
Has anyone ever hunted a property that had too many bucks?


i don't think its possible . you'd have to many deer before that happened

Re: Shooting Does (a spinoff) [Re: Forrestgump1] #4089519
02/24/24 10:19 AM
02/24/24 10:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,574
Tuscaloosa
H
hawndog Offline
8 point
hawndog  Offline
8 point
H
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,574
Tuscaloosa
Originally Posted by Forrestgump1
Has anyone ever hunted a property that had too many bucks?

Too many? No. But more bucks than does? Yes. Neighbors shot all the does they could, Leaving very few deer.


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