Well dang......I guess Gobbler took his ball and went home.......Some days I miss Ol' 257 around here.

I bet there’s already a chart like this somewhere but this is the basic food pyramid that I figure supports bobcats, hawks, and owls…….rodents being the foundation. Manipulate that foundation and you’re going to create a ripple effect. Mother Nature already does this but I suspect that we do numerous things to the landscape to impact it as well.

This is what I would guess the population levels look like over time. The reason the raptors don’t follow the same valleys and peaks being that they switch to other prey sources to supplement their diet. Really I don’t think its so much that they “switch” per se but rather a function of there just being so many more or less targets in any given year. You would have to think that actual rodent numbers are on a much different level than everything else. So its kinda like you either have say 100 turkey poults per sq mile scattered in amongst 10,000 rodent targets or 50,000 depending on if we’re coming out of a drought year or a record rainfall year. Of course the turkey poult number is going to fluctuate some too but the real fluctuation number that matters is the rodent…..(and maybe tweety birds with specific hawk species).

That kinda makes it sound like more rodents would be better but I think that’s likely only true over a short time period. If you increase the rodent population long term you’ll likely have increases in over all predator populations eventually follow assuming they arent constrained by anything else like “territory” or nesting habitat. Again keeping in mind that we are also doing things along the way like burning, bailing hay, etc to create minor flushes of rodents during different time periods. I really think you could use that concept to your advantage......or possibly disadvantage, which may be what we're doing by flushing a bunch of targets well before poults are even born

I found this study on bobcats done back in the 70’s on Alabama quail plantations. It shows the cotton rat being their main prey. I’m guessing that this is our main rodent specie driving the cycle with hawks and owls too.


https://seafwa.org/sites/default/files/journal-articles/MILLER-100-111.pdf

"Rodents as a group, and the cotton rat in particular, occurred with greatest frequency and volume in the stomachs, large intestines, and scats analyzed (Tables 2,3, and 4). The higher frequency of occurrence of cotton rats in the scat analyses (Table 4) compared to the stomach and large intestine analyses (Tables 2 and 3) may be explained by the fact that all scats were collected on areas intensively managed for bobwhite quail, while some ofthe samples in Tables 2 and 3 were collected on adjacent woodlands. Cotton rats were also the most important prey in the combined analysis for each ofthe 12 months (Fig. I). Trapping efforts during the study indicated that the cotton rat was the most abundant rodent on the study areas (Table 5). This conclusion is also supported by data collected by Gilbert (1975) on the Bermingham area.

Simpson (1976) reported that certain quail management practices tend to increase rodent populations and that at high densities, cotton rats in particular could have a detrimental impact on quail populations. These impacts are manifested in several ways. Cotton rats can eat or otherwise damage roots of valuable quail food plants (Stoddard 1931). Direct competition for quail food can be serious, particularly since cotton rats can occur at densities 60 times greater than quail (Stoddard 1931, Komarek 1937, and Schnell 1968). Perhaps the most obvious impact of cotton rats is destruction of quail nests and eggs (Stoddard 1931, Simpson 1976). On one area in Georgia, nest destruction by rodents, of which cotton rats were the msot abundant species, accounted for destruction of 12 percent of the quail nests found; on the same area bobcats caused less than 0.4% of the total nest destruction (Simpson 1976).

The importance of cotton rats in the bobcat's diet in this study is apparent (Tables 2, 3, and 4),.and the consequences of this high rate of cotton rat consumption to quail populations should not be overlooked. Schnell (1968) concluded that a highly mobile predator population could be more important than food, weather, or social interaction in regulating cotton rat density. The rate of predation applied to cotton rats by bobcats on these study areas may actually benefit bobwhite quail populations".




Here's something I’ve mentioned several times in the past. We should likely be focusing more on “grass” management in these situations to lessen overall rodent populations.


Cotton Rat

https://www.tn.gov/twra/wildlife/mammals/small/hispid-cotton-rat.html#:~:text=Habitat%3A,materials%20under%20rocks%20or%20logs.


Habitat:
Occurs primarily in open fields or borders of fields with dense, grassy growth. Also, occurs along borders of agricultural fields and along roadsides. They build small nests of grasses, plant fibers, or other materials under rocks or logs. A system of runways is created as the rats move around in the soil and grass.

Diet:
Feeds primarily on plant material including stems, leaves, roots, and seeds of grasses and sedges, and domestic crops. However, they will occasionally eat crayfish, insects, ground-nesting bird eggs and chicks, and dead carcasses.

I’ll add this in there about rain and the impacts of it and other variables on these rodent population…….It’s very likely that it’s a more specific time frame that’s having an impact than just “annual” rainfall. It may be more like May-Aug that’s really dictating it. I’m guessing that it’s basically the impact of rain on grass and grain production…….Again, we can also impact grass and grain production with our management practices.

Something else I found interesting about that bobcat study is that turkeys weren’t even mentioned as being found at all in their scat. I don’t know if turkeys were much less prevalent back then or what…… I don’t think coyotes have been found to be a big threat. Something has to be killing adult turkeys though and if it isnt bobcats then it would really narrow it down to great horned owls and maybe eagles in some situations….. If that’s true then I’d be turning loose every bobcat I caught. They would simply be reducing the prey population for the other predators that do impact turkeys. Foxes may also fall right in line with this same idea although I bet they’re a little more prone to nest raiding.

First bobcat I trapped was caught with a half eaten turkey it had buried

I’ll have to see if I can dig up some more recent studies to see if they show turkeys being more prevalent in bobcat scat. You almost need to weigh the cost/benefit on this one to really see which one is worse…….a bobcat killing an occasional adult turkey or excess raptors wreaking havoc on poults. Another way of saying that is if bobcats are eating thousands of rodents that don’t go toward supporting raptor populations, then it may be worth the occasional loss of a bird here and there to leave them alone since raptors kill far more……It really just depends on how frequently bobcats kill adult birds. Great horned owls can apparently be pretty rough on them according to some of the literature......

There is the possibility that something else killed that turkey and the bobcat just came along and found it. One of the links I was reading said that great horned owls take the head off of grown turkeys…..I wonder if they just target and kill them then waste most of the bird…..I cant imagine them utilizing much more than a small portion of a grown turkey…..They could possibly just be mistaking the turkey’s head for prey

Here we go……...

https://www.newsarchive.msstate.edu...fe-research-tracks-mississippi-predators



"A 10-year study by Mississippi State University is yielding some surprises about the state's wildlife populations.

Between 1988 and 1998, the research team kept tabs on more than 400 animals, including coyotes, bobcats, gray fox, raccoons, and opossums. Leopold said the study's length, as well as the number and variety of animals involved, was unprecedented.

The wildlife specialists collected data on the animals' home ranges, habitat use, diet, mortality factors, reproduction, and interaction with other animals. Surprisingly, they found that neither the coyote nor the bobcat, Mississippi's two largest predators, dine regularly on wild turkeys.

"The research confirmed that the greatest threat to the wild turkey population is raccoons," Leopold said. "They feed on eggs and disrupt nests."

They also posted this……….

"The study also helped identify a solution to the raccoon threat to birds.

We found that controlled burning of woodlands populated by wild turkeys every three to five years helps improve sites as nesting areas for the birds," Leopold said. "The burning also makes the habitat less appealing to raccoons for hunting, reducing their threat to the turkey population."

Now……there’s way more to it than just that simple statement and this is the very conversation we’re currently having and brings us back full circle to the trapping incentive. There’s a much more complex dynamic at play across the landscape that includes rodents and raptors….especially if we’re talking about comparing Bullock Co to Jackson.

Just thinking out loud……it may sound odd but looking at what these studies are telling us…..If you have plenty of deer then I don’t know that I’d trap bobcats, coyotes, or foxes for the sake of trying to help turkeys……If you hit these three heavily then you’re likely shifting a whole lot of rodent food over to supporting larger avian predator populations……and they seem to have a much more significant impact on turkey populations than do those other three. A good happy medium may be to kill the yotes and turn the bobcats and foxes loose.

It's common to hear folks say that we need to wage all out war on every predator but unless you come up with another way of dealing with rodents then you really have no choice here but to pick your poison…….SOMETHING has to and WILL thrive off of the rodent populations that our landscape produces whether we choose to see that part of the equation or not……it still happens…..

Look at how we have the system set up now though…….We hammer dang near every coyote, bobcat, fox, snake we see, while rarely does a raptor ever get shot…..(and they shouldn’t)…….So raptor populations go virtually unimpeded while others are being suppressed……..That setup heavily favors the raptors. WE humans are helping to give them the advantage……

If we look at numerous studies and compare the numbers and we see that raptors heavily impact turkey numbers while bobcats only do so very sporadically…….then we’re better off to go with the cat form of “mouse control”. The maff on turkeys would appear to work out much better with them versus owls and hawks. Pick your poison.

OK throw and mow/tracker man , it's time to get yourself some professional help.

What I have seen since baiting became legal is a very healthy coon population. Coons come though the winter very fat and healthy after eating corn all winter. Legalized baiting has made corn feeders the norm in the woods and the raccoons congregate around them. Middle of February the free buffet ends and the coons disperse back over the landscape. Shortly after the turkeys start nesting. Shouldn't be a big surprise that the coons put a hurting on the turkey eggs. The question is "Does baiting inflate the raccoon population?" and "Does that effect the turkey population negatively?". I have not seen any study addressing these questions.

My personal opinion is there are more raccoons since baiting became legal and they are eating turkey eggs.

Man you ruined it! I was counting how many posts he was going to do in a row with no response 😂

It has to be a new record.

Here's another study I found showing slightly different results........It has racoons as being the top predator on turkey poults. One thing I noticed about this study is that they werent able to identify the cause for most of their mortality......only 33% was able to be identified. Keep in mind too that a lot has changed since the mid 80's so some of this probably needs to be taken with a little grain of salt.......

https://seafwa.org/sites/default/files/journal-articles/PEOPLES-448-453.pdf


"Mortality rates of wild turkey poults have been documented for several habitats (Glidden and Austin 1975, Speake 1980, Campo et al. 1984, Vander Haegen et al. 1988) and ranged from 69.8% (Speake et al. 1985) to 80% (Hon et al. 1978). However, poult loss in coastal plain pine forests may be greater than in other environments. Exum et al. (1987), for example, reported poult losses averaging 87.3% for a three year period in south Alabama. Additionally, Sisson et al. (1991) found mortality rates averaging 90% during his study.

Although poult loss rates have been described over a broad geographic area, information concerning specific mortality agents is limited to the Appalachian plateau of north Alabama. In that study, Speake et al. (1985) reported free-ranging dogs (Canis sp.) and raccoons accounted for 42% of the poult losses. Avian (16%) and reptilian (7%) predation was attributed primarily to broad-winged (Buteo platypterus) and red-tailed hawks (B. jamaicensis) and gray rat snakes (Elaphe obsoleta), respectively. In the southern coastal plain of Alabama, Exum et al. (1987) reported that mammalian and avian predation ac counted for 37.9% and 13.8% of mortality, respectively. "

I’m a little suspect of that last study the more I think about it. If you aren’t able to identify 66% of the mortality that you’re trying to count then the potential for bias is ripe in the 33% that you’re reporting on. I don’t know this to be the case but lets just say that maybe its easy to pick out coon mortality but much, much tougher to definitely say ones been killed by an avian predator. If that were the case then the numbers being reported would be heavily skewed. It could be that the vast majority of that unidentified 66% is avian mortality.