I'm just not sure I'm following the criticism.......Where are the inaccuracies in the things I've said??

CNC, how big (acreage wise) is the place where you regularly hunt, and from which you are making these profound and enlightening observations regarding deer populations and mgmt strategies on? Not to be rude, but while you track on a lot of different properties, you're not physically on them enough to be able to use anything that you think you might see, or thing you know about them, in any relevant application.

Deer management is not a one size fits all application. Everything in deer management is an ever changing variable. Examples:

1) Say you've got 1000 acres and it's all big timber with some thick bedding areas and large destination foodplots with neighbors that shoot everything. You might not need to pull the trigger at all depending on your population and how much damage the neighbors are doing on their property or you might need to shoot a few does based on what you're taking off your property buck wise.

2) Now lets say that same situation changes and they clearcut 700 of the 1000 acres. You're destination plots may still pull deer, but the pull will be diminished during hunting hours due to all that open ground around them. You also will not be holding near the deer that you did when all 1000 acres was thick timber. You probably dont need to shoot anything for a few years, especially with your neighbors taking care of business.

3) Fast forward 5 yrs and you now have 700 acres of grown up cutover, full of heavy cover and massive amounts of browse along with large destination plots and 300 acres of big timber. Perfect habitat and most likely, you'll be experiencing a population boom as a result and you might need to kill 8-12 does depending on your recruitment and survival rates, and once again, what your neighbors are killing.

4) Now, lets say youve got the exact same situation above with the 5 yr thick cutover and 2 years earlier, all the property around you (5000 acres) got bought up by a bunch of big money doctors from Bham that only shoot 5+ yr old trophies and refuse to pull the trigger on a doe. With that being the case, you might have to shoot 15-20 does to keep things where they need to be because you will quickly be overrun with deer.

All of these situations might happen on the exact same 1000 acre property over a 5-7 yr period and each requires a different approach. It also doesnt even address whats happening with the habitat on the other properties around you which would cause you to have to further evaluate each situation. The final thing that nobody has mentioned above is buck dispersal. It is a proven fact that a mother doe will run her yearling buck fawns off. Average dispersal distance ranges from less than 2 miles to sometimes up to 20 miles, so if you are not turning over/shooting any of your mature momma does, all of the buck fawns, born on your property, are most likely leaving and taking up residence on the neighbors or your neighbors neighbors. In scenario 1, this is not a good situation because with your immediate neighbors killing every young buck they see, you're simply not going to be replacing many of your bucks. Scenario 2 is even worse because you dont have anything to attract what few dispersed bucks that are available. Scenario 3 is a little better in that you've got prime buck habitat so you'll pick up a few. Scenario 4 is a best case scenario because you'll have prime habitat and a bunch of bucks dispersing from the properties around you over onto yours.

You can kill the required does without drastically impacting anything. Practice low impact hunting and keep pressure down. Use 4 wheelers and atvs ONLY to retrieve deer and not for routine travel. Do not shoot your does with rifles and most especially, do not shoot does on or near you greenfields or feeding areas. Kill them with bows or crossbows in areas away from your feeding locations. Keep the noise and activity on your property to an absolute minimum. In the case of the 1000 acres, hunt no more than 4 people on it. If the weather sucks and is not conducive to good deer movement, dont go. If the wind is wrong or marginal for a stand you want to hunt, dont hunt it. As I've said before, I'd rather hunt a whole lot less days, but have fantastic quality hunts and an opportunity to see a pile of deer and bucks, every time I get in a stand.

Last part of deer management is pressure and people management. I promise you, you can put me and 3 like minded guys on the same 1000 acre piece one year and we might hunt a total of 40-50 man days or (8-12 days in total for each man, during the entire season). You can put a normal 8 or 10 man Alabama club on that same 1000 acres the following year and they would probably put in 200 plus man days of hunting. I can promise you that if you kept detailed observation data for both seasons. My group of 4, hunting the way I described above will see 3-4 times as many total does, 5 times as many total overall bucks and 10 times as many mature bucks as the 8 or 10 man club will, on the exact same property. It's just the way it works.

I'm just not sure I'm following the criticism.......Where are the inaccuracies in the things I've said??

It's the delivery, and the overly wordy posts and that you think you're the smartest person on here. That's why

........but....but......I'm not a biologist.

Not to be rude, but while you track on a lot of different properties, you're not physically on them enough to be able to use anything that you think you might see, or thing you know about them, in any relevant application.

I don’t have a problem with it, and honestly wish I had more time to put into but I don’t. CNC does see a lot of land. His observations and opinions are valid. I disagree with some and agree with others. Honestly I figure if we sat down at the table and looked at the same information we’d likely have more in common than different. I’ve discovered that is the case very often, even with ppl who strongly disagree on internet chatter.

^^^ that I can definitely agree with. And CNC does raise some interesting ideas and provokes good conversation. “Managing” a 20, 40, or even 100 acre piece of ground is totally different than managing 1000, 2000 or 3000 acres of land, or a co-op. How you manage, what you can do, and what you can accomplish on a small property does not necessarily translate to larger properties. Like I said, managing deer is very property specific, not one size fits all.

^^^ that I can definitely agree with. And CNC does raise some interesting ideas and provokes good conversation. “Managing” a 20, 40, or even 100 acre piece of ground is totally different than managing 1000, 2000 or 3000 acres of land, or a co-op. How you manage, what you can do, and what you can accomplish on a small property does not necessarily translate to larger properties. Like I said, managing deer is very property specific, not one size fits all.

If you really want to make wise management decisions then you need to zoom out to 30,000 ft and look at the larger subset area that you exist within…….The perimeter of a subset area will be defined by things like lakes, major habitat breaks, and major highways/interstates……..To what extent is the deer population maxed out within that subset???......THAT is what should be dictating the idea of how many does to shoot……If you start seeing assloads of road mortality on the perimeter, then it probably wouldn’t hurt to pull the trigger a little more on some places……If you start seeing zero road mortality…..then you might want to think about easing up…….A good example of this is that stretch of interstate up through TN and KY where road mortality is like a blood bath…..That’s a good indicator of a deer population likely pushing the limits of the habitat. Much of the road mortality is likely coming from subset areas trying to expand…….The highways and interstates are like mesh points that moderates the expansion when hunters don’t.


What if your property is the best fawning in the whole subset area and the biggest supporter of the bigger deer herd around you??? Shooting a bunch of the does from your property in this situation just limits the potential of the whole subset and limits the amount of bucks produced to fill up those secondary areas and eventually converge back on the high doe pop property come rut time. Deer management happens on a much bigger scale than how we often talk about it.