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Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer #375779
07/28/12 10:20 PM
07/28/12 10:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 221
Northport
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Ringo Offline OP
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Northport
I was wondering what the general consensus is amongst the Aldeer gang when it comes to crossing property lines to track a wounded deer. I know the law clearly states that it is illegal to cross a property line to trail a deer without the landowners permission. However, unless the property you hunt is a large tract and you hunt far away from the boundaries, you are bound to have to cross property lines occasionally, maybe even frequently, to track a wounded animal. Do you always confer with the landowner? What if you shoot a nice buck that crosses the line and you have no idea who owns the adjoining property and don't know how to locate them? The law and everyone else is in agreement that you should do everything you can to retrieve a wounded animal. What do you do in a situation like that? This is the most difficult situation I know of if you want to be a law-abiding hunter and not break the rules but still need to retrieve your quarry as soon as possible. How do others here handle this situation?

Last edited by Ringo; 07/28/12 10:21 PM.
Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #375794
07/28/12 10:35 PM
07/28/12 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,590
Alabaster, AL
BartMan79 Offline
10 point
BartMan79  Offline
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Alabaster, AL
You should make it a point to find out who the adjoining landowners are and how to contact them before the situation arises. Good way to get killed walking around somebody else's property with a flashlight at night

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: BartMan79] #375802
07/28/12 10:48 PM
07/28/12 10:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,977
Hampton Cove
foldemup Offline
14 point
foldemup  Offline
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Hampton Cove
Originally Posted By: BartMan79
You should make it a point to find out who the adjoining landowners are and how to contact them before the situation arises.


This I would say is the best answer...that being said, if for some reason I shot a deer and didn't know how to contact the landowner to get permission, I would put my visible weapon down, grab a few friends, and go looking for the animal and ask for forgiveness if the other landowner happens to be an ass


If you want to always win, never play anyone better than you!
Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: BartMan79] #375804
07/28/12 10:48 PM
07/28/12 10:48 PM
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Northport
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Ringo Offline OP
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Northport
Originally Posted By: BartMan79
You should make it a point to find out who the adjoining landowners are and how to contact them before the situation arises. Good way to get killed walking around somebody else's property with a flashlight at night


That's great when possible but it's easier said than done. I've hunted public land all over Alabama and some of it is bordered by many different landowners. I don't have the time to research every adjoining landowner of every place I might possibly hunt and find contact info for all of these people (it could literally be hundreds) just because a deer I shoot might cross over onto their property.

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: foldemup] #375809
07/28/12 10:55 PM
07/28/12 10:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,590
Alabaster, AL
BartMan79 Offline
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BartMan79  Offline
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Alabaster, AL
Originally Posted By: foldemup
Originally Posted By: BartMan79
You should make it a point to find out who the adjoining landowners are and how to contact them before the situation arises.


This I would say is the best answer...that being said, if for some reason I shot a deer and didn't know how to contact the landowner to get permission, I would put my visible weapon down, grab a few friends, and go looking for the animal and ask for forgiveness if the other landowner happens to be an ass


I will agree with this too. I'm not saying I've never done it, and it is definately safer with a group of people, but you would be better served to take steps in advance to avoid the situation. Most landowners will tell you not to even bother to call if it happens.

Public land is definately a more difficult situation, and those landowners who border public land are often more leary of allowing people onto their property

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #375812
07/28/12 11:03 PM
07/28/12 11:03 PM
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PDL, Fl
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timbercruiser Offline
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timbercruiser  Offline
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On the contiguous lands that people hunt on, I just tell them to leave their guns at the line or in their truck and get their deer and that it will be reciprocal.

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #375934
07/29/12 11:47 AM
07/29/12 11:47 AM
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Posts: 34,441
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
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Boxes Cove
Know where the ajoining land owner/club/ hunters stand BEFORE this arises. If don't mind if ajoining landowners/hunters come on my place to track a deer, even with their gun or bow. They damn better not mind if I do the same.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #375955
07/29/12 12:41 PM
07/29/12 12:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
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Ringo,
Quote:
I was wondering what the general consensus is amongst the Aldeer gang when it comes to crossing property lines to track a wounded deer. I know the law clearly states that it is illegal to cross a property line to trail a deer without the landowners permission.


That's not completely accurate.

First, let's look at what the law says and then see how hunting comes into play. There are two issues involved here; criminal trespassing and hunting without permission.


Criminal trespassing:

Code of Alabama 1975
Quote:
Section 13A-7-1
Definitions.
The following definitions are applicable to this article:

... (4) ENTER OR REMAIN UNLAWFULLY. .. A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privileges unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner.

Quote:
Section 13A-7-4
Criminal trespass in the third degree.
(a) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the third degree when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises.

(b) Criminal trespass in the third degree is a violation.

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2607.)



Hunting Without Permission:
Quote:
Section 9-11-241
Hunting, trapping, etc., of wild game during day on lands of another without permission.

Any person who hunts, traps, captures, injures, kills, or destroys, or attempts to hunt, trap, capture, injure, kill, or destroy any wild game on the lands of another between the hours of daylight and sunset without the written permission of or accompanied by the landowner or person in possession or control of the lands shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be punished for the first offense by a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000), and at the discretion of the court may have all hunting license privileges revoked for up to one year from the date of conviction. Any person shall be punished for the second and each subsequent offense by a fine of not less than two thousand dollars ($2,000) and the revocation of all hunting license privileges for one year from the date of conviction, and shall be imprisoned in the county jail for a period not less than 10 nor more than 30 days.

This section shall not apply to the members of the family, guests, servants, or agents of the landowner.

(Acts 1936-37, Ex. Sess., No. 191, p. 224, §1; Code 1940, T. 8, §92; Acts 1975, No. 1119, p. 2208, §1; Acts 1982, No. 82-489, p. 813, §1; Act 2008-384, p. 714, §1.)


Quote:
Section 9-11-242
Hunting, trapping, etc., of wild game at night on lands of another without permission.

Any person who hunts, traps, captures, injures, kills, or destroys, or attempts to hunt, trap, capture, injure, kill, or destroy any wild game on the lands of another between the hours of sunset and daylight without the written permission of or accompanied by the landowner or person in possession or control of the lands shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be punished for the first offense by a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000), and at the discretion of the court may have all hunting license privileges revoked for up to one year from the date of conviction. A person shall be punished for the second and each subsequent offense by a fine of not less than two thousand dollars ($2,000) and the revocation of all hunting license privileges for one year from the date of conviction, and shall be imprisoned in the county jail for a period not less than 10 nor more than 30 days.

This section shall not apply to the members of the family, guests, servants, or agents of the landowner; provided further, that this section shall not apply to fox hunting with dogs exclusively; and, provided further, that this section shall not apply to raccoon and opossum hunting with dogs only.

(Acts 1936-37, Ex. Sess., No. 191, p. 224, §2; Code 1940, T. 8, §93; Acts 1982, No. 82-490, p. 814, §1; Act 2008-384, p. 714, §1.)


Quote:
Section 9-11-251
Taking, etc., of deer at night.

It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to take, capture or kill deer at night in Alabama by any means or device, including but not limited to the use of any type of light.

(Acts 1971, No. 2309, p. 3731, §2.)


Quote:
Section 9-11-252
Penalties for violations of provisions of Sections 9-11-250 and 9-11-251.

A violation of Sections 9-11-250 or 9-11-251 shall constitute a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, the person, firm or corporation violating same shall be punished for the first offense by a fine of not less than $500.00, by the revocation of all hunting license privileges for a period of one year from the date of conviction, and shall also be imprisoned in the county jail for a period of not less than three nor more than 10 days. Any person, firm or corporation convicted the second time of violating Sections 9-11-250 or 9-11-251 shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000.00, by the revocation of all hunting license privileges for a period of three years from the date of conviction, and shall also be imprisoned in the county jail for a period of not less than 10 nor more than 30 days. Any person, firm or corporation convicted of violating Sections 9-11-250 or 9-11-251 the third or subsequent times shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000.00, by the revocation of all hunting license privileges for a period of five years from the date of conviction, and shall also be imprisoned in the county jail for a period of not less than 30 nor more than 60 days.

(Acts 1971, No. 2309, p. 3731, §3; Acts 1982, No. 82-278, p. 350, §1.)



From the above statutes we see that trespassing is defined as a violation and hunting without permission is defined as a misdemeanor. Trespassing may not be involved in tracking a wounded deer if the land is not posted. Hunting without permission can come into play, and that can involve significantly more serious penalties as seen in the statutes.



We now come the the defintion of hunting. The language in the law might allow for a hunter to track wounded game legally onto unposted lands. The language in the definition used by the DCNR probably does not. The DCNR defintion does not enjoy the status of being a rule that has gone thru the rule-making process required by law, but it is the official interpretation of the agency:

Quote:
DEFINITION OF HUNTING

Hunting includes pursuing, shooting, killing, capturing and trapping wild animals, wild fowl, wild birds, and all lesser acts, such as disturbing, harrying or worrying, or placing, setting, drawing, or using any device used to take wild animals, wild fowl, wild birds, whether they result in taking or not, and includes every act of assistance to any person in taking or attempting to take wild animals, wild fowl, or wild birds.


... and then there are these rules:

Quote:
______________________________________________________________
220-2-.13 Reasonable Effort Must Be Made to Retrieve Crippled Birds, Animals and Fish

It shall be illegal for any person, firm, or corporation to kill or cripple any species of game bird, game animal or game fish without making a reasonable effort to retrieve same and include it in his daily bag or creel limit. Nothing in this regulation permits or requires a person to enter upon the land or waters of another for the purpose of retrieving game or fish without the permission of the landowner.
______________________________________________________________

Quote:
220-2-.85 Hunter Orange Requirement for Hunting and
Definition of Open Permit-Public Land

... (2) “Open Permit-Public Land” is defined as governmentally owned land open for public hunting and/or lands made available to the public on an individual basis whether for a fee or not. Examples of such lands would be national forest lands, lands owned by lumber companies and utility companies available for use by hunters either through free permits, fee permits or no permit requirement.



Here are my conclusions:

- If you have written permission from the landowner or leaseholder to enter adjoining property to track wounded deer, then there should not be a legal problem under normal circumstances.

- If the adjoining land is posted against trespass in a conspicuous manner and you have not obtained permission to enter, then there is no permission granted. End of discussion.

- If the land is not posted, then you have "license and privilege" to enter without becoming a criminal trespasser. It then becomes an issue of your hunting without permission in violation of the law or tracking wounded game without permission in violation of the DCNR rules.


Another good example of why the law requires the commissioner to:

"... publish in pamphlet form for general distribution all laws together with such rules and regulations relating to game, birds, fish, fur bearers, seafoods and other matters over which such Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources has authority or supervision."

Why can't the commissioner comply with the law?

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #376024
07/29/12 03:15 PM
07/29/12 03:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,740
Lake, Beach; Mountains & Woods...
Marlin_444 Offline
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Marlin_444  Offline
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Lake, Beach; Mountains & Woods...
Better get permission, it would be bad to have a hunting accident.

*V*


Memento mori (Neck shot, 75 yards) - - I'll see you at the lake, around the beach, on the mountain & in the woods on this side or the other by & by.
Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #376280
07/30/12 08:30 AM
07/30/12 08:30 AM
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Posts: 18,841
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ford150man Offline
Old Mossy Horns
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I've crossed the property line a couple of times looking for a deer. Some may bash me for admitting this but I didn't get permission either time. The first time I did it I knew the land owner and was actually hunting with his nephew. It was his nephew's deer we were looking for. The man didn't allow anyone to hunt us property other than the guy I was with (we were hunting adjacent land this day though). So, we knew no one would be on th land. The second time I did it, again, I was helping a friend look for a deer. I followed the creek which was recognized as the property lines by both property owners. I basically just criss crossed back and forth across the creek, getting no more than 20 yards on the other property. I left my rifle on the property we had permission to hunt and stuck a pistol in my pocket to finish off the deer if needed. It may not have been the right thing to do in some's eyes but those were the choices we made those days.


If voting made any difference, they wouldn’t let us do it.-Mark Twain
Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #377615
08/01/12 09:41 AM
08/01/12 09:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,860
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
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Elmore County
what i do is ,,, give the deer a little time . leave the gun on my place and go get my deer . wearing red of course .

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Frankie] #377633
08/01/12 10:18 AM
08/01/12 10:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,595
Hartselle, AL
trlrdrdave Offline
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Hartselle, AL
Originally Posted By: Frankie
what i do is ,,, give the deer a little time . leave the gun on my place and go get my deer . wearing red of course .


Red? Why red? Why not orange?


"In time of war, send me all the Alabamians you can get, but in time of peace, for Lord's sake, send them to somebody else." General Edward H. Plummer

"Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight." Jeff Cooper
Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: trlrdrdave] #377697
08/01/12 11:55 AM
08/01/12 11:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,860
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
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Elmore County
Originally Posted By: trlrdrdave
Originally Posted By: Frankie
what i do is ,,, give the deer a little time . leave the gun on my place and go get my deer . wearing red of course .


Red? Why red? Why not orange?


lol ,,, what i meant sorry

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Frankie] #377845
08/01/12 04:12 PM
08/01/12 04:12 PM
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Posts: 221
Northport
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Ringo Offline OP
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Northport
Originally Posted By: Frankie
what i do is ,,, give the deer a little time . leave the gun on my place and go get my deer . wearing red of course .


Truth be known, that's probably how we all do it. That's what I do. And of course, technically we're breaking the law. That's why I think the law should be that you have a right to track a wounded animal across property lines.

Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: Ringo] #377852
08/01/12 04:30 PM
08/01/12 04:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,184
alabama
BhamFred Offline
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BhamFred  Offline
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alabama
I don't think a leasing hunters rights should supercede an adjacent landowners privacy rights.

get permission.


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Crossing property lines to track/recover shot deer [Re: BhamFred] #378551
08/02/12 02:00 PM
08/02/12 02:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,860
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,860
Elmore County
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I don't think a leasing hunters rights should supercede an adjacent landowners privacy rights.

get permission.


i agree , but at times i just take the chance . around the house its not a problem . i don't know about today but things may have changed but i never had a problem with being caught on other land . if i saw some one i went to them and told them why i was there of course i had no gun . i never really had a problem with land owners. its mostly how u talk to people .


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