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Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: jawbone] #3642720
03/30/22 09:41 PM
03/30/22 09:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,984
Madison
BowtechDan Offline
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Madison
Originally Posted by jawbone
Originally Posted by BowtechDan
Originally Posted by JR1234_
Y'all see the Russian ship destroyed by Ukraine?


Is it me or are we not seeing much of anything on film to support either sides movements or misfortunes?

I'm seeing plenty of destroyed property. The media just isn't going to show any of the ugliest side of warfare.

We see the destroyed property. We aren't seeing who is doing it, nor are we really seeing and hearing the truth of the Russians stupidity.


Nathan Carl Goff 19 Sept 2016 - 14 Jan 2017.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: BowtechDan] #3642760
03/30/22 11:02 PM
03/30/22 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
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Alabama
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JR1234_ Offline
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I saw a video of some Russians taking a truck and leaving other Russians behind. They were chasing the truck on foot in the snow lol. I wonder if it was the grunts leaving leadership behind and deserting or something.

Saw another video of Ukrainian infantry with a tank capturing Russians.

Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Tigger85] #3642795
03/31/22 05:38 AM
03/31/22 05:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,706
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Online content OP
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Irishguy  Online Content OP
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Originally Posted by Tigger85
Ukraine seems to be pushing them back. I think all the good equipment has made its way to the front.


I read some statistics the other day and Ukraine has more tanks than when the war started.

Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3642920
03/31/22 10:28 AM
03/31/22 10:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,452
Sumter County
sumpter_al Offline
10 point
sumpter_al  Offline
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Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by Tigger85
Ukraine seems to be pushing them back. I think all the good equipment has made its way to the front.


I read some statistics the other day and Ukraine has more tanks than when the war started.



And the Russians have a lot fewer than when they started. The Javelin has proven to be a very effective weapon.


I love my country, but don't trust my government.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3642922
03/31/22 10:32 AM
03/31/22 10:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
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JR1234_ Offline
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Are tanks basically obsolete now or am I loco ?

Don't answer the second question... Lol

Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: JR1234_] #3642977
03/31/22 11:46 AM
03/31/22 11:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,398
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
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coffee county
Originally Posted by JR1234_
Are tanks basically obsolete nowl



No, but russia is using alot of their obsolete tanks. Not that they were very good to start with. They do have a few with upgraded tech but they aren't using them. I can't remember the name but its basically the improved version of Shtora-1.
Also, the way russia is using the tanks battalions is ww2 tactics, that doesn't work on todays battlefield.

Shtora-1 (Russian: Штора, "curtain") is an electro-optical active protection system or suite for tanks, designed to disrupt the laser designator and laser rangefinders of incoming anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs). The system is mounted on the Russian T-80 and T-90 series tanks and the Ukrainian T-84. The existence of Shtora was revealed in 1980 by Adolf Tolkachev.[2]

Last edited by goodman_hunter; 03/31/22 11:54 AM.

For without victory, there is no survival
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: JR1234_] #3643240
03/31/22 05:22 PM
03/31/22 05:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,706
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Online content OP
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Irishguy  Online Content OP
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Originally Posted by JR1234_
Are tanks basically obsolete now or am I loco ?

Don't answer the second question... Lol


I was thinking the same thing the other day. And to a certain degree, I think that they are. I also believe that to a certain degree aircraft and ships of certain types are also going to become obsolete. And the main reason is man portable missile targeting systems have evolved to such a degree, that there's nowhere to hide. What we now have are weapons systems that cost a small fraction of the high dollar equipment that they are destroying. Those systems can be carried and fired by a relatively minimally trained foot soldier to destroy much more costly weapons systems and kill much more highly trained combatants.

Remember in WWII, where the vaunted battleships that were once the rulers of the sea, were suddenly made completely obsolete by basically cargo ships with flight decks on top? Between drones and manpads, I think this is where we are now. If a country spent a larger amount of money on effective drones and manpads and spent less on fighter jets, assault helicopters, and tanks, gave one to every soldier, it would be a force to be reckoned with.

There is no way I would want to be a tanker or a helicopter gunship crew these days. I would much rather be on a 4 man fire team, with a drone and some javelins and stingers.

Last edited by Irishguy; 03/31/22 05:23 PM.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643303
03/31/22 07:18 PM
03/31/22 07:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,398
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
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Pretty good assessment there Irish. But I would like to point out that a 4 man fire team may be successful in a defensive position against Russia garbage army. It wouldn't last very long against a real army. Like Ali said, you can't hit what you can't see. Our tech and tactics are second to none, that's one of the advantages of being in combat for the last 20 years and an unlimited military budget.


For without victory, there is no survival
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: goodman_hunter] #3643304
03/31/22 07:25 PM
03/31/22 07:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
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Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Online content OP
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Originally Posted by goodman_hunter
Pretty good assessment there Irish. But I would like to point out that a 4 man fire team may be successful in a defensive position against Russia garbage army. It wouldn't last very long against a real army. Like Ali said, you can't hit what you can't see. Our tech and tactics are second to none, that's one of the advantages of being in combat for the last 20 years and an unlimited military budget.



Well... I meant being in a 4 man fire team, as part of a Squad, as part of a Battalion, as part of a Regiment, as part of a greater Division. etc... etc...

I certainly wasn't insinuating that a 4 man fire team can change the World, but a whole damned Army of them armed the way I laid out, certainly could.

My whole point is that hopefully the folks in the upper echelons of the military high command are taking note of the way the Ukrainians are handling themselves against the Russians and are thinking hard on where to spend the money in the next military budget.

Last edited by Irishguy; 03/31/22 07:29 PM.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643317
03/31/22 07:48 PM
03/31/22 07:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
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Shelby Co, AL
CatHeadBiscuit Offline
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Makes an Osprey a scarier ride. As if those things were fairly enthused to stay aloft to begin with.


"Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a crap on the table, and strut around like its victorious."--Anonymous
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643320
03/31/22 07:52 PM
03/31/22 07:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,913
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
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jawbone  Offline
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Originally Posted by Irishguy


I certainly wasn't insinuating that a 4 man fire team can change the World, but a whole damned Army of them armed the way I laid out, certainly could.
.


What if the four men were Chuck Norris, Rambo, Jack Bauer, and Outback?


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643326
03/31/22 07:57 PM
03/31/22 07:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,027
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
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I agree. I do think the ruskies went in way over confident and with a poor plan. We utilize armor differently than what is being used in ukraine.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643344
03/31/22 08:12 PM
03/31/22 08:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,398
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by goodman_hunter
Pretty good assessment there Irish. But I would like to point out that a 4 man fire team may be successful in a defensive position against Russia garbage army. It wouldn't last very long against a real army. Like Ali said, you can't hit what you can't see. Our tech and tactics are second to none, that's one of the advantages of being in combat for the last 20 years and an unlimited military budget.



Well... I meant being in a 4 man fire team, as part of a Squad, as part of a Battalion, as part of a Regiment, as part of a greater Division. etc... etc...

I certainly wasn't insinuating that a 4 man fire team can change the World, but a whole damned Army of them armed the way I laid out, certainly could.

My whole point is that hopefully the folks in the upper echelons of the military high command are taking note of the way the Ukrainians are handling themselves against the Russians and are thinking hard on where to spend the money in the next military budget.

My guess is our military advisors are implementing what we learned in the last 20 years fighting against guerilla fighters. I find the whole thing interesting. I wish we could see more footage, but I understand the need for opsec. The geospatial technology is crazy these days.


For without victory, there is no survival
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643367
03/31/22 08:35 PM
03/31/22 08:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,398
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
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Last edited by goodman_hunter; 03/31/22 08:49 PM.

For without victory, there is no survival
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: goodman_hunter] #3643401
03/31/22 09:18 PM
03/31/22 09:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,706
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Online content OP
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Irishguy  Online Content OP
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Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by goodman_hunter
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by goodman_hunter
Pretty good assessment there Irish. But I would like to point out that a 4 man fire team may be successful in a defensive position against Russia garbage army. It wouldn't last very long against a real army. Like Ali said, you can't hit what you can't see. Our tech and tactics are second to none, that's one of the advantages of being in combat for the last 20 years and an unlimited military budget.



Well... I meant being in a 4 man fire team, as part of a Squad, as part of a Battalion, as part of a Regiment, as part of a greater Division. etc... etc...

I certainly wasn't insinuating that a 4 man fire team can change the World, but a whole damned Army of them armed the way I laid out, certainly could.

My whole point is that hopefully the folks in the upper echelons of the military high command are taking note of the way the Ukrainians are handling themselves against the Russians and are thinking hard on where to spend the money in the next military budget.

My guess is our military advisors are implementing what we learned in the last 20 years fighting against guerilla fighters. I find the whole thing interesting. I wish we could see more footage, but I understand the need for opsec. The geospatial technology is crazy these days.


Thinking of the way we have fought wars against tribalists won't help us in the next peer to peer war against Russia or China. Watching the way Ukraine fights against the Russians will. That was my point.

Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643406
03/31/22 09:22 PM
03/31/22 09:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,913
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
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Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by goodman_hunter
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by goodman_hunter
Pretty good assessment there Irish. But I would like to point out that a 4 man fire team may be successful in a defensive position against Russia garbage army. It wouldn't last very long against a real army. Like Ali said, you can't hit what you can't see. Our tech and tactics are second to none, that's one of the advantages of being in combat for the last 20 years and an unlimited military budget.



Well... I meant being in a 4 man fire team, as part of a Squad, as part of a Battalion, as part of a Regiment, as part of a greater Division. etc... etc...

I certainly wasn't insinuating that a 4 man fire team can change the World, but a whole damned Army of them armed the way I laid out, certainly could.

My whole point is that hopefully the folks in the upper echelons of the military high command are taking note of the way the Ukrainians are handling themselves against the Russians and are thinking hard on where to spend the money in the next military budget.

My guess is our military advisors are implementing what we learned in the last 20 years fighting against guerilla fighters. I find the whole thing interesting. I wish we could see more footage, but I understand the need for opsec. The geospatial technology is crazy these days.


Thinking of the way we have fought wars against tribalists won't help us in the next peer to peer war against Russia or China. Watching the way Ukraine fights against the Russians will. That was my point.

It will help us if we adopt a lot of the guerrilla tactics we saw in the Middle East, especially if it ever reached our soil.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643448
03/31/22 10:46 PM
03/31/22 10:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,280
Alabama
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gcr0003 Offline
8 point
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Just checking in again, is the war over now?

Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643455
03/31/22 11:47 PM
03/31/22 11:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,206
Pikes Peak
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JDR4Bama Offline
Chit Show Connoisseur
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Pikes Peak
Don't see this as a Russian loss. Just a step in the process. We need to identify the end game. I'm still not sure about that part.

Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: JDR4Bama] #3643457
04/01/22 12:47 AM
04/01/22 12:47 AM
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Pine Hill, Al
T
Todd1700 Offline
12 point
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Pine Hill, Al
Originally Posted by JDR4Bama
Don't see this as a Russian loss. Just a step in the process. We need to identify the end game. I'm still not sure about that part.


Who knows what the Russians wiill do next but there is no doubt in my mind that so far this has mostly been a failure for them. I think they definately wanted to overrun Kyiv and could not. I think Putin wanted Zelensky either dead, in their custody or forced into leaving the country. Hasn't happened yet. They have also lost some serious amounts of men and machines even if the most conservative estimates are true. And they don't have the endless supply they used to when the Soviet Union existed. They also don't have the thriving economy to replace them either. California has a higher GDP than Russia. So does Texas and New York. Russia is currently 15th on a list of the top GDP countries which puts them just under South Korea. I would lastly say that Russia's prestige as a military super power has taken a serioius ding so far in this conflict.


The best index to a person’s character is (a) how he treats people who can’t do him any good, and (b) how he treats people who can’t fight back.
- Abigail van Buren
Re: Ukraine Fighting Back... War over soon... [Re: Irishguy] #3643462
04/01/22 02:40 AM
04/01/22 02:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 593
Alabama
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JR1234_ Offline
4 point
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J
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Alabama
Agreed jawbone and irish.

Jets are a totally different game from a helicopter though. Still need jets to fight jets. Or am I wrong?

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