Serious Deer Hunting
Threads: 1686 Posts: 29544

Quality Deer Management
Threads: 181 Posts: 1445

More threads in the hunting forum than there are total posts in qdm section.

You guys getting lonesome down there??

If you don't care about QDM why even post other than to just be a nagging aggravator?

Gadflies gotta be gadflies.

a lot of the serious deer hunting threads ARE about QDM.....

Shhh ... don't tell him that. He'll lose his mind.

Does that tell us anything about the nature of those involved in qdm?

nope...

Your base belongs to us 49er!! We are taking over the woods one hunter at a time!!!

reminds me of a Van Halen song,

"been to the edge, there I stood and looked down, lost a lot of friends there, got no time to mess around"

both first names ARE Eddie....just sayin...

It just seems to me like qdm'ers like to impose on others a lot.

Lots of name dropping and suckin' up and such.

It's like they have some kind of a need to show others how much "knowlege" they have about things that don't really involve hunting at all, or they need to belittle hunters who don't share their interests. It's seems like some kind of elitist attitude I suppose, but then they turn around and suck up to anybody who can write a magazine article about qdm.

Weird. Just plain weird.

Never heard that one.

I looked up the lyrics. I don't get it... but then, I don't get you either. We don't think at all alike, but you always show up when I start a thread... kinda like Clem, Bucktrot and a few others (even with "ignore this user" turned on) who don't like what I have to say. But you always show up anyhow.

See? That's what the data shows us about you. And it fits what I've observed.

So what if we show up? If we're on "ignore" then you shouldn't care a lick.

Clem,

*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post


I don't even bother to "toggle this post". You're easier to pattern than a yearling buck.

You listen to that stuff troy?

I had you figured more for listening to Eddy Arnold, Eddie Raven, Eddie Rabbit... you know. Good stuff.

I made it a point to drop down to the QDM section to see if any hunters were down there interferring with their threads.

If you don't think qdm is deer farming, just take a look at the thread titles down there!!

No dog hunters interupting, no small game hunters... not even a serious deer hunter butting in down there.

They seem to be doing all their discussions about deer farming in peace down there. I just eased on out of there and left them alone.

Wish they could learn to do the same here.

I post both here and QDM forum, Mr. 49er, please tell me where I belong.

Depends on what you want to talk about. Don't you get that?

It's kind of self explanatory.

If you want to get serious about hunting deer, this is the right section.

If you want to talk about farming and managing, then the QDM section might be a better place for you. Here's the thread topics there lately:

Subject / Poster Replies Views Posted
Wildlife and Forestry management questions answered here.
( 1 2 all )
by NightHunter 61 5952 April 12, 2012 11:11
by Rebelman
NWTF Soybeans?
by Whatwood 16 188 Yesterday at 14:14
by FurFlyin
Why not only clover?
by Ant67 11 373 June 09, 2012 17:45
by 2Dogs
Questions for the Kudzu Killers
by poorcountrypreacher 10 219 June 07, 2012 19:31
by gobbler
What to plant for turkey
by hosscat 6 220 June 04, 2012 15:54
by hosscat
Durana Clover/Chicory Plot
by 270wsm 3 124 June 03, 2012 22:36
by Bucktrot
Detailed Herbicide website
by FurFlyin 3 90 June 03, 2012 20:41
by truedouble
Classic herbicide use on Iron and Clay peas
by FurFlyin 1 43 June 03, 2012 11:03
by 257wbymag
whats the earliest you should spray for fall plots?
by Ant67 8 292 June 02, 2012 06:57
by 2Dogs
How are your summer plots doing? Who plants them?
by FurFlyin 34 854 May 30, 2012 22:34
by truedouble
Fruit Tree value
by k bush 6 312 May 18, 2012 06:58
by k bush
No Plow Spring Plot
by rglock35 2 285 May 13, 2012 10:44
by FurFlyin
Clover question
by timbercruiser 8 375 May 11, 2012 11:16
by Shuter II
Protecting Soybeans
by TallCoHunter 6 287 May 10, 2012 06:22
by perchjerker
Spraying RR Corn
by Chevyguy 0 129 May 08, 2012 09:17
by Chevyguy
Clover Fields
by Blessed 3 273 May 07, 2012 16:47
by Teacher One
Okra
by Morgan 1 173 May 07, 2012 14:56
by Wiley Coyote
Lime
by boondog1 5 250 May 06, 2012 12:38
by Bucktrot
1st phase of my management plan complete!
by bushhogbowhunter 4 305 May 06, 2012 10:44
by Bucktrot
Plant Date for Soybeans
by HHSyelper 6 256 May 04, 2012 09:28
by NightHunter
What do you use to break hard pan?
by bushhogbowhunter 2 158 May 02, 2012 14:01
by RareBreed
NWTF RR CORN SEED ON THE WAY
by D Wilborn 6 361 May 02, 2012 08:15
by D Wilborn
Pelletized Lime
by tsmith 5 218 April 30, 2012 15:57
by muzziehead
Buying seed about to go outa date......
by 2Dogs 0 110 April 29, 2012 07:47
by 2Dogs
Treflan
by Steiner 18 499 April 27, 2012 21:02
by FurFlyin
Planting Corn?
by Dquailhunter 2 160 April 19, 2012 09:30
by HHSyelper
NWTF SOYBEAN SEED
by D Wilborn 5 216 April 17, 2012 16:20
by D Wilborn
seed rate
by HHSyelper 5 191 April 15, 2012 16:05
by Steiner
Just got my Soil Sample results in.
by tsmith 8 328 April 13, 2012 22:21
by Bucktrot
Sunflower Seeds
by Teacher One 1 193 April 12, 2012 11:04
by HHSyelper
Lake Martin Branch QDMA- Spring Seminar, April 26th
by bwhunter 1 62 April 11, 2012 21:56
by timbercruiser
muscadines
by AU-1 14 500 April 07, 2012 13:05
by Teacher One
Forage RR Soybeans For Sale
by D Wilborn 0 174 April 05, 2012 17:48
by D Wilborn
Tree Tubes
by sethjamto 4 110 March 31, 2012 18:22
by Andrew Morton
Oaks From Acorns
by HHSyelper 14 827 March 30, 2012 18:13
by sethjamto
Native bamboo/cane for cover
by FurFlyin 29 907 March 23, 2012 07:55
by Steve Ditchkoff
poast
by hellfighter 9 308 March 20, 2012 18:05
by hellfighter
Predators
by jacannon 1 207 March 15, 2012 19:38
by NightHunter
Is it too late to prune persimmon trees
by bushhogbowhunter 1 102 March 15, 2012 19:23
by Skinny
Summer Food Plots
by north greene

Managing is serious.

Farming is your term and not wholly accurate.

I guess if Eddie was in charge (perish the thought!) we would only be relegated to one section - guess I would have to stick with the turkey forum. You know, serious deer hunters cannot plant anything or manage their deer herd

Unfortunately 49er, there is some truth to what you wrote. Years ago, I spent all my time trying to educate deer hunters about how deer herds and herd dynamics work, and how hunter harvest practices alter these processes, for good or ill. In essence, I spent all my time trying to convince interested hunters that QDM really would work.

Now, just the opposite is true. I spend the VAST majority of my time try to talk-down overzealous QDM enthusiasts--to interject some reality into their pie-in-the-sky predictions and proclimations, and to counter-act their inaccurate statements and beliefs.

And worst of all has been the rapid growth of "trophyism" in the ranks. Although, to be honest, trophyists have moved far beyond true QDM, but happily use the term to hide behind like a protective cloak. The elitism and anger that spews from some of these trophyists simply floors me.

Although my QDM-advocacy of the past certainly made me some strong enemies in the world of deer management, those older enemies can't hold a candle to the viciousness my new trophyist enemies display! Thankfully, age and experience have thickened my skin to the point of near armor.

goobler,

I ain't in charge and ain't trying to be. Just making some observations I find to be interesting.

Studying human behavior I reckon. Trying to understand why people do what they do.

I don't turkey hunt, so you're safe from me butting in over there. I see more turkeys than deer around here, and always have. Just don't care about hunting them. I do like seeing them though.

And you like qdm, so you've got another place to talk about that without me butting in.

Just sayin', that's all.

Skinny and them divided this thing up. I guess they knew what they were doing or we wouldn't have been around this long.

That's some of what I'm talking about. Not getting on anybody's case in particular. Just making comments on general observations I've made thru the years.

Hunters are divided now more than any time I've ever seen in my 50 years of observation. Ignoring it won't help anything. If we recognize it, we might be able to start trying to fix it.

And yet 49er has 7,253 posts, what does that say about him?

that's what I was going to say...49er I'll have to say you've been struggling lately...might want to take a break and come back when you have something worth posting.

WHAT IN THE ?????????? ARE YOU KIDDING YOURSELF???????

"It's like they have some kind of a need to show others how much "knowlege" they have about things that don't really involve hunting at all, or they need to belittle hunters who don't share their interests. It's seems like some kind of elitist attitude I suppose"

49er you just summarized yourself...I couldn't have said it any better myself. Like I said you need some time off...

Tells me that he is a lonely loser.

Barry,


It's right there under your nose... it says I'm a 14 point.

How many of those 7,253 posts were made in the qdm section? What does that say about me?

truedouble,


See what I mean?

There's that attitude.

burbank,


Let me guess. Another in a list of derogatory remarks that caused me to just quit bothering with trying to talk to him.

Same old qdm attitude I'm sure.

No, I'm just concerned about you...your posts seem to be more off base than ever before. Just want to make sure all this qdm talk isn't making you crazy..

Why don't you forget about me and explain the need qdm'ers have to degrade those who don't agree with them.

Do you deny it? You've seen it happen, and you do it yourself.

Why are you here instead of discussing qdm with the group down in the qdm section?

That's what this thread is about. It's about the elitist attitude you share with your qdm buddies and your need to impose it on other people.

You can't do that in the QDM section because they agree with you there. So you are here instead.

Look at the data. What does the data tell you? You enjoy this section more? Why?

Some people worry more about others than themselves.Not everyone agrees on the same thing.Deal with it.Hunt the way you want and don't worry bout how others hunt.I could care less about QDM practices myself.I'm just thankful to be here and have the ability to hunt.I plant food plots during the winter and occasionally during the summer when I can afford to.If I wanna shoot a spike I will and don't give a shiit what ANYBODY thinks.Is that QDM?Nope and I don't care.On the other hand I can see where people support it and practice it.I don't down anyone who does it and know quite a few people that are big into it,and I have never been downed for not doin it.Just go hunt the way you want to and don't worry bout how everyone else is doin it.

Where do you hunt in the summer?

Seriously?

That QDM enthusiasts are a subset of all deer hunters, as it should be.

(edited)

Fixed it for you.

You're right. There are always people in any walk of life who want to set limits for others.

The thread about farming deer is what sparked this thread. Who are we to say that a man is out of line for raising deer with enormous antlers?

It's his property, his freedom and he's not imposing his will on others. Yet there are those who imply that limits should be set.

Why is it our business what he does on his deer farm?

It's those people who want to make it our business that I'm referring to. For some reason, qdm seems to fit well with their way of thinking. Talk about freedom and liberty and it draws them like flies. They can't stand it and they have to attack.

A review of this thread will bear that out.

49er,

The only interests I have in deer farming are 1) the potential impact deer farming can have on local deer herd health (as it is now obvious deer farming is spreading CWD to areas in which it did not previous exist); and 2) the poor image canned hunting and genetically manipulated deer have on the hunting of free-ranging wild deer.

In the first instance, I want to see deer farming outlawed because the threat of disease spread is so real and so disasterous. On the second point, I have no interest in regulating something because of image. If my concerns over deer farming were simply based on image, I would simply voice my opinion, but not push for regulation. It is the disease issue that forces my push for regulation.

Each hunter has to decide for themselves "how much management is too much management," and act accordingly. I have my limits and I don't cross those limits. I could care less what my neighbors' limits are.

You wrote: "There are always people in any walk of life who want to set limits for others." Unfortunately, that is true. And also unfortunately too many QDM enthusiasts want to see other hunters' harvest and hunting opportunities limited just so that their efforts towards growing big bucks can be more successful. I deeply oppose that movement/viewpoint. If you want to practice QDM, do so on your own hunting land. If you don't, don't.

QDM is a far cry from deer farming. I have and do some of both and they are not nearly the same. Deer farming and farming for deer are two completely different things.

Growing crops of deer in pens and hand picking the genetics involved is deer farming. My 7000 acre tract that we manage intensively and grow spring/summer crops is farming for deer. I do not try and push my views on others. QDM when done "right" with realistic goals can and is very rewarding for a club or property owner.

The struggle comes in when you have neighbors who are not like minded, but there is not much you can do about that unless you can get them on a coop program or show them the fruits of your labor. Often times that will bring them around to your side, or at least to a more management style of thinking. If it doesn't, oh well it's their property...

BSK's post about Trophyist attitude is spot on as well though.

But to compare deer farming and QDM is ridiculous. Deer farming is a business. QDM is management practices put in place to grow bigger deer.

Off my soapbox now.

But I thought you were in favor of the buck restrictions that were imposed on the Tennessee hunters, ergo, probably support Al's buck limit? Just tryin to help 49r out

BSK has had a change of heart in some of the matters he supported earlier.

He's stated that openly here. I respect that.

I don't have a problem with "evolving opinions" either, I know mine do over time. However, have they evolved to the point that we do not need limits on the number of bucks a hunter can kill from either state??

This may not be the popular thing to say on ALdeer but.......49er made a good point here. Like many have said, TV has ruined deer hunting for the worst imho. I spend 100's hours and 4 figures a year practicing QDM the best I can but I totally agree with that statement and it's gotten much worse in the last 10 years.

Even neighbors who try to practice some sort of QDM can't get along, let alone neighbors who do and one that don't.

I have a great club, just 8 of us although there has been as many as 12. We are all great friends and even we have differences sometimes. QDM is some to blame, yes. TV shows even more. QDM is good and works, imho. The hunting on my place is 110% better than 6 years ago.

Kinda ironic I guess, that most of the biggest bucks I get called to score come from meat clubs or simply areas that aren't "managed". Managed clubs do have better balance with buck ages but I think in turn has created lazy hunters. Most of the really big bucks I see in trucks are guys that are still "meat" hunters but they hunt hard, mostly because they don't have food plots around every curve.

You should post your findings in the human behavior forum, we're talking serious deer hunting in here.

Good un... Skinny could hook him up with his own forum. When he's on line he could have an avatar that says "The Doctor Is In".

Qdm attitude again. Ignore 'em and they just keep coming back.

2dogs,


Skinny's busy enough as it is.

We probably should just leave each other alone. I think that was Skinny's reason for having all the different sections we've got now.

Besides, you have to have a degree to call youself a doctor. I'm about as much of a doctor as you are a professional widlife biologist. Only difference is, I know I'm not a doctor.

The problem with QDM is the fact that to keep it fresh QDMA has to keep it ever evolving on TV and in print in order to keep membership growing.

It is all about $$$ if things are not ever changing and evolving then it seems stagnant and they lose members so they have to keep things fresh. It a double edged sword. We get some cool new research and learn some new stuff but mostly it all about generating $$$.

It's the same way I feel about coyote research. You can research coyotes until your blue in the face but you will always have to manage them in localized populations just like you do deer herds. The only reason it became such a huge story is researchers, writers and the like saw lots of $$$ behind the subject.

Are you sure he is now opposed to Tn.'s buck restrictions? I wouldn't want to speak for him or anyone else but it seems like you may have taken some of his statements out of context.

WIth the information that Tn. has gathered and with the increase in the percentage of mature bucks being taken I can't imagine why anyone with a dog in the fight would object to their system.

Back when QDMA was young, I found out about them at a deer seminar sponsored by the University of Alabama. I had attended several of the UA seminars when Coy Hollis was there.

Later, when the QDMA got started in Alabama, I was one of the first to attend their meetings. It cost about $25 bucks, and they signed anybody that attended up as a member. So I guess you might say, I got drafted because I wanted to go see what was going on.

I quit at the first meeting where they did a survey in one of the meetings to see if we wanted to support the AWF's propsosed buck limit/antler restrictions. I never went back.

Now I couldn't afford it if I wanted to:



So, yeah, the QDMA is evolving.

Are you sure I said anything about Tn's buck restrictions? Talk about taking something somebody said out of context!!! Sheesh!

I'm sure you can't imagine anybody not liking something you like. Once again, that's the point.

Most of the people I've put on ignore status have taken things I've said and tried to make it look like I said something I didn't say. You're doing that too, so now I'm going to ignore your posts as well. If you can't defend your position with anything better than that, I don't want to read it.

Do us both a favor. Click on my screen name to view my profile. You'll see the option "ignore this user". It would be nice if you would do that. Thanks.

Bye!

He didn't say it but I suggested it and you stated that BSK has had a change of heart indicating that (you believe) he does NOT support TN's buck limits - maybe agree with you that there should be NO limits on the number of bucks killed by a hunter:



You're just looking to pick a fight - bored or something?

Let me say exactly what I did say one more time:



And here's his post I was referring to:

BSK,


Thread name: Re: BSK February 20, 2012 21:25


You participated in that thread, so don't give me no crap like I'm making something up that I ain't.

If you want to know how BSK feels about something, ask BSK.

He's learned to use the "ignore this user" feature like I have according to what he said in that same thread:


BSK,
February 20, 2012 20:53


If you don't like my opinions, you don't have to read them:

Click on 49er's profile:

You are getting too easy, to predictable. And when someone rebutts you or "steps on your toes" , it's hit the ignore key.

Be honest dog.

You and I disagree and I've not ignored you. It's the constant personal attacks without adding anything of substance to the thread that I find annoying.

I can tolerate opposing opinions, but that old "qdm, it's my way or no way at all" attitude is what I find intolerable.

Do they teach people to have that attitude at QDMA now or something?

There you go again,you know better, I don't think that's what QDMA teaches. And I don't force my ideas on anyone. No, I'm not a professional wildlife biologist, but I have a Phd...... in managing my own property, with great success. I lead by example. People often ASK me questions and I answer, no charge.

QDMA is like anything else, you can plot it on a bell curve, there are a few extremes on both sides and most are in the middle. Aldeer has extremes too.

That you do my friend!

49er is grasping for support

At one time (a decade or so ago) I supported antler restrictions in specific areas. I no longer do. I don't support them because 1) the don't work well biologically; and 2) unless absolutely biologically necessary, I don't support the idea of the state telling hunters which bucks to shoot (legislated QDM).

I supported TN's move from an 11 buck limit to a 2 buck limit in 1998. Since then, the buck limit has slowly liberalized to a statewide 3 buck limit. I have no problem with that (although still favor a 2 buck limit).

However, after a full review of the annual harvest data and hunter opinion surveys run every other year by our wildlife agency, I'm fully convinced the drop in buck limits played only a supporting role in TN's slow but steady improvement in standing-crop buck age structure and harvested buck age structure. I believe (and the data is very supportive of the idea) that a combination of increasing buck population against a stagnated buck harvest total, in combination with changes in hunter attitude, are driving the improvements. In essence, buck harvest totals peaked and have remained steady since the late 1990s. However, the buck population continued to grow beyond that point. With more total bucks in the pre-hunt population each year, but unchanging buck harvests, more and more bucks are surviving hunting season each year. The result is an increased buck age structure. In addition, hunter attitudes are changing. A growing percentage of hunters are voluntarily passing young bucks. This can be seen in a significant portion of county harvest records, in that the percent of harvested bucks in the older age classes exceeds what is in the population. Considering older bucks are less active during daylight and more skilled at avoiding hunters, if hunters were shooting the first antlered buck of opportunity, the harvested buck age structure would highly favor yearling bucks. Yet now we have many countied where only 30-40% of harvested bucks are yearlings. That strongly indicates hunter selectivity.

In my opinion, the only role the lower buck limit played in fostering these improvements is that it fostered the idea of "protecting" bucks from over-harvest, and when buck age structures began to noticably improve in the years after the lowered limit (even though the lower limit was not the direct cause of this), hunters began to see that limiting buck harvests really will increase buck age structure, prompting more and more hunters to be selective (by age) in their harvests. In essence, success bred success, even though the actual reason for the earlier success was not really caused by the lower buck limit. Through more older bucks being seen and killed, hunters began to believe that passed young bucks in one year would survive the season and be available for harvest as older bucks in following years, hence they gained the confidence to start passing young bucks; i.e. success bred success.

Another fact to consider is even with a 3 buck limit, only around 1 in 3 of TN's 200,000 deer hunters kill even 1 buck each year, and only 1-2% kill their limit of 3 bucks. Considering those numbers, and the previously discussed data, I honestly believe that in many TN counties, the buck limit plays virtually no role in what hunters are harvesting. The limit could be changed to 20 bucks, and buck age structure would continue to improve because hunters are being so selective about what they harvest.

In parts of TN, I think buck limits play virtually no role in what hunters are killing.

I would suggest reading BSKs bottom paragraph ^^^^ and "let it soak in."

I'll third that. In my opinion, TV hunting shows have done more damage to deer hunting and have done more to divide hunters than any other single influence I've seen in my 30+ years of deer hunting.

Carter,


If I had said something that I couldn't back up with evidence, that may have been the case.

I think BSK just supported my statement with his own explanation.

Do you get some kind of a thrill out of jumping in to make personal comments like that? That's what I'm trying to understand. There seems to be an uncontrollable urge to degrade people when they don't embrace the theories of qdm.

Bryan,




Is this change and increased buck age structure beneficial to the overall health of a deer population in an area and/or state?

I jsut don't see divided hunters where I hunt. Some use QDM, some don't. We are just as happy if a neighbor kills a spike as we are killing an eight. I may grumble about it at home...but its his business.

I need to qualify "great". I was speaking in terms of money spent. My QDM has come mostly from knowing the land and animals, using common sense timber harvests and trigger control. Smart timber harvesting and trigger control will go along way in the moutains. As far as the grand scheme of QDM maybe "some" success. But as far as $ spent, "great" is my story and I'm sticking to it.

X2

x3

Yes it is, but outside of a more concentrated rut in the Southeast, most of the benefits are not huge or obvious. Most of the important biological benefits are quite subtle, and would take years to see or measure (if they even can be measured).

Hang out in some of the national deer hunting talk forums, or head up to the TN Talk Forum. You'll see elitist mature buck hunters severly denigrating anyone who doesn't hunt like they do, or kills a buck under 4 1/2 years old.

Actually, I should clarify that. the worst of the offenders are those who try to be mature/big buck hunters, but are not successful, and they blame every hunter who has ever shot a buck below their own personal standards for their lack of success. These wannabes absolutely believe that they aren't killing big/mature bucks because there aren't any around, and every other hunter is to blame for that (because they shot all the bucks when they were young).

Oh, now you've gone and let the cat out of the bag!

pot meet kettle

that might be my point :thumb up:

you denigrate anyone associated with QDMA, what's the difference?

I haven't renewed my membership when it ran out a few wears back, got tired of the Trophy mentality direction.


I don't care for an AR as part of our buck limits, I personally know way too many guys that without some sort of limit literally kill 30-50 bucks a year, might still do, just not bragging any longer

49er what is wrong with buck limits, really grates on you, as mentioned it does help promote older bucks within the herd which is a good thing, the argument might be just how well it helps.

that's why gobbler's post cary a lot of weight, great timber management
aka habitat

Yep , great pine manager for sure.

I am going to step on toes here, but I am going to do it anyway.

We manage in the ball park of 290,000 acres in the southeast. We require clubs to turn in harvest data on about 150,000 acres of that property, and have been doing so for 5 years. The first year they had not AR so we could have a baseline data set. Year two they got AR's and have had since.

In the baseline data set, around 75-80% buck harvest was yearling bucks across the entire data set. Last year, after 4 years of AR's my yearling buck harvest percentage was down to 15% and some of those were harvested by youth hunters.

That said, last year we had two districts that thought because we did not have a biologist in those districts anymore that the program had been terminated went right back to their old ways.... 75% of buck harvests were yearlings.

This tells me that most hunters, when not faced with some sort of regulation can't control their trigger.

QDM has not changed that many minds, they have changed the minds in power. The large landowners, the leasing agents and they/I am imposing these rules on them. Unfortunately it would be hard to sway my opinion that AL hunters can effectively manage our deer herd any better that the state is doing.

I am not saying the state should have all this POWER 49er, I am not sure of the answer, but I deal with thousands of AL hunters every year on our property and if we turned them all loose to do what they wanted, it would be pure chaos.

The people here on this site are the elegant few...

I love working with my customers, don't get me wrong, I would not have a job if is was not for them. There is just too many differing ideologies out there that do not mesh that would end up creating havoc.

Now I'm gonna kick the cat.... Best management tool in hardwood moutains for deer is a chainsaw, best mineral for deer , lead. IMHO.

NightHunter,

My toes don't feel stepped on.

The Deep South may be different, although I would be shocked if it was as QDM first gained traction there, but both KY and TN have displayed continuously decreasing yearling buck harvests, without ARs or anything other than a more limited buck bag limit. Again, we have quite a few counties in TN, under a 3 buck bag limit, where yearlings have gone from making up 75% of the harvest to now only making 30-40% of the harvest, and 3 1/2+ year-old bucks have gone from making up less than 5% of the harvest to now making up 25% of the harvest.

In that situation, why limit hunters unnecessarily? They are doing a great job all on their own.

I will always promote QDM as a voluntary effort. I don't want to see state wildlife agencies forcing all hunters to practice it.

I agree. I am not sure of the answer just yet myself. I like the thought of DMAP coming back into effect and being able to manage our properties that way but I am not sure where that leaves the rest of the private properties in the state...

Let me also add that not all areas of TN are equal. For some unknown reason, some counties are doing great in the way of harvested buck age structure while some are doing terrible (no improvements from the past). And these good and bad counties are scattered all over the state, sometimes directly adjacent. Talking to local wildlife officers, many of them believe the difference is simple localized attitudes. Hunters in some counties care about older bucks while hunters in other counties don't.

In the "bad" county circumstances, I would have no problem with the wildlife agency attempting further means to reduce buck harvests, such as a 1 buck limit. But first I would want to see the local hunters support that idea. If they are happy killing forkhorns every year, so be it. And I would always support a lower buck limit before an antler restriction, even if that means a buck quota system. In many parts of TN, an antler restriction won't work biologically. Like the better habitat areas of Mississippi found out, an antler restriction can cause long-term problems where yearling buck antler development can be highly variable.

Yes, I kept up with the MS side of things since some of our properties are in south MS. My goal is to move my clubs to shooting for 3.5 year old deer and I still feel like I am a few more classes with my clubs and and a year or two out from this goal.

It's like you said in TN we have areas here in AL that are happy with harvesting small/young deer. Some of the properties where my biggest buck come from every year are in those counties. There are just local pockets of hunters that are not interested in management, which is fine but it just makes things hard.

What has this thread got to do with serious deer hunting? I come here to discuss hunting, not thread topics. Should have been posted in the general forum.

And it makes things exceptionally hard on those who hunt in those "bad" areas who want something different. I really feel for those hunters. I take a lot of heat from them on Talk Forums because I support my state's rules. I support my state's rules because they are working great in most areas. However, there absolutely are areas where buck age structure is low, and for hunters in those areas that want a QDM experience, they are behind the 8-ball. But I don't want to see my set their harvest rules based on the worst or best-case scenario. I want the state to set the rules to benefit the most hunters and the majority of the deer herd, and I think we're at that point now. Any further advancements are completely up to the hunters (i.e. embracing selective harvests).

after being Prez of a club for more than a few years, I understand and agree with your post completely

can we talk about turkeys since they have a limit and it's based on sex of the turkey

deer and turkeys, the only big game in AL

x4.

Thanks Carter!



WOW, that's a stretch



WOW, really? You think so, you might need to read again







I'm surprised 49r hasn't protested to have it moved to the QDMA forum... Oh wait, that would increase the thread count and he wouldn't like that.... however, he has posted several times on this thread and it IS concerning QDMA.... Tsk, Tsk, Tsk

goobler,

This thread is about a serious hunting matter.

It involves your own individual efforts to destroy my hunting rights.

I'm examining why you and others like you feel the need to do that.

OMG REALLY???



THIS is a serious hunting matter?? It would better be put in the QDMA forum

What's the difference.

You guys spend more time here pushing that crap than you do down there.

is QDMa not part of some serious deer hunting discussion?

Only when you use it to try to destroy hunting.

Q= quality???
D= deer
M= management

Qdm is habitat and wildlife management "for the health of the herd".

Hunting is the right to pursue and kill wildlife for food and recreation.

I'm not, nor ever have been a member, just not my bag and I was doing what they were talking about before they started talking about it - just made sense. I would like to see ONE example of where I have pushed QDMA. Habitat management, yep, planting, yep, restraint in harvesting young bucks, yep. QDMA Nope. Do I care if anyone listens to me and implements any of my suggestions, Nope... unless they are paying me

But, without laws to REGULATE what is being harvested, People would kill out all the resources. Just as has already nearly happened once.



Exactly.

Conservation preserves the various species of wildlife, not qdm.

Show me in the law where the DCNR has been delegated authority to set seasons and bag limits for qdm purposes.

It's there, but it does not apply to privately owned and leased lands. Can you find it in the law?

should there be any rules then?

The people expressly prohibited the executive branch from assuming legislative powers of government in our state's Constitution. I firmly support our Constitutions.

Every office holder in this state is required to support our Constitutions. Many of those officers don't honor their oaths of office. Some of them adopt the common law of England and ignore our Constitutions.

There should be no rules of the executive branch that have the effect of law according to the provisions of our state's Constitution.

Conservation conserves various species through work, manipulation and planning.

Preservation preserves various species by leaving things alone.

There's a difference.