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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3418618
06/03/21 05:42 PM
06/03/21 05:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


We dont rent pigs
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3418627
06/03/21 06:03 PM
06/03/21 06:03 PM
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N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
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I think your self diagnosing the other day was very correct.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: 257wbymag] #3418635
06/03/21 06:20 PM
06/03/21 06:20 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
I think your self diagnosing the other day was very correct.


Yeah, I feel quite certain about it......I'd say there's like a 95% confidence interval.


We dont rent pigs
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3418967
06/04/21 09:15 AM
06/04/21 09:15 AM
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B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
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I just realized there are more weeds in the ditch by the roadside than their are in your plot CNC.

You gotta be pissed about that.


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3418971
06/04/21 09:24 AM
06/04/21 09:24 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Here again is the watershed finger that I’ve gotten mostly restored barring a few more H&S tweaks……This is about 300 yards “downstream” from the first set of pics……The fairly straight line of trees in the back is where it starts forming the first parts of a gulley or ditch…..You can see the major difference in understory vegetation growth that comes from managing this watershed finger in a different manner. What’s not so easy to see is the impact it has on ground water retention……

Another thing that probably goes unnoticed is how the massive amounts of silt that have moved through these two watershed fingers over the years has silted in the beaver swamp that it flows into and now beavers no longer inhabit that area like they did when I first moved here…….which has also virtually eliminated the wood ducks that use to fly in……..”See” all the variables………the forest and the trees as they say.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 06/04/21 09:24 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3418975
06/04/21 09:30 AM
06/04/21 09:30 AM
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B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
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The good thing about weeds is you don't have to do anything and they are free.

Pretty awesome thing. Thanks Baby Jesus.


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: Goatkiller] #3418976
06/04/21 09:31 AM
06/04/21 09:31 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by Goatkiller

I just realized there are more weeds in the ditch by the roadside than their are in your plot CNC.

You gotta be pissed about that.




There’s a lot of ragweed coming in now which suits me fine……… I’ve done a lot of edge feathering and understory work that provides chit tons of diverse food. This is what is encroaching into my plot more and more now.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by CNC; 06/04/21 09:32 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: Goatkiller] #3418980
06/04/21 09:34 AM
06/04/21 09:34 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by Goatkiller
The good thing about weeds is you don't have to do anything and they are free.

Pretty awesome thing. Thanks Baby Jesus.



The idea that you "don't have to do anything" is not true anymore........You still have to manage the land correctly to produce a vibrant native understory like in my pics........

Last edited by CNC; 06/04/21 09:36 AM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3419652
06/05/21 10:17 AM
06/05/21 10:17 AM
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So now here is the end result of the watershed management discussion……Something that I should have added earlier is that the water flow in the other watershed finger that is still in poor condition is coming off of a good sized cow pasture "upstream" that is overgrazed and constantly full of cow patties….Along with the massive amounts of silt flowing through the watershed is likely high loads of N washing out of the pasture……..

As a result of the years of erosion and silting in...this is what is now left of what used to be a massive beaver pond when I first moved here. There was actually two different ponds. An upper one you see here and a lower one down to the right…..It had a beaver hut as big as my living room dang near it. I used to sit in the evenings and see skads of wood ducks flying over going to this hole……Saw a snapping turtle one time that lived in it that had feet the size of my fists……That’s all gone now and no one will understand why when they ask “Where did all the wood ducks go??”……”Why don’t we have this or that??”……..”I sure like the way that eroded dirt smells in the morning though!!!!”……

Shew buddy…….

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 06/05/21 10:58 AM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3419656
06/05/21 10:22 AM
06/05/21 10:22 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Let me add this......Some of this is right along the property line with my neighbors......so there's only so much impact that I can have on the situation and much of it is too little too late at this point I believe anyways. I'm just trying to use it as an example to show that our management practices do have consequences even if we can't "see" them sometimes.....We as a society of outdoorsman and folks who are supposed to be caretakers of the land are mostly blind to soil management issues.

Last edited by CNC; 06/05/21 11:15 AM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3419726
06/05/21 12:47 PM
06/05/21 12:47 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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These watershed fingers are supposed to serve as water filtration systems using the lush understory to slow down and infiltrate the water into the ground……The beaver swamps are supposed to serve as small natural “dam and lake” systems along the watersheds as well…..We have completely changed the way many of these natural watersheds function……We’ve eliminated the understories and filled the watersheds with silt and nutrient runoff due to our land management practices both with agricultural practices and pasture management practices…….Where are the animals????...........Well, where is the habitat??.......Bye-bye watershed understory…….Bye-bye water source…….bye-bye riparian ecosystem………You know “WATER” is a big component to life.

Last edited by CNC; 06/05/21 12:47 PM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3419955
06/05/21 09:56 PM
06/05/21 09:56 PM
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Clanton
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I disced today after years due to the amount of thatch layer I had. I think I’m gonna change up my approach but if you aren’t moving forward you are falling behind.


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: Turkey_neck] #3420031
06/06/21 07:46 AM
06/06/21 07:46 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by Turkey_neck
I disced today after years due to the amount of thatch layer I had. I think I’m gonna change up my approach but if you aren’t moving forward you are falling behind.


If you're having an issue with residue buildup then it's likely that you need more N in the system.......or your microbial community is not very active......Another important thing is to canopy over the "hay" in the summer time with vegetation so that it creates a greenhouse effect underneath......This rapidly speeds up decomposition. Once you get the field in the proper condition then biomass will disappear efficiently.....C/N balance is a big part of that,,,,,,If you have to run a disk over the top of the field to help the process then there's nothing at all wrong with that.....It's just about the understanding of why

Last edited by CNC; 06/06/21 07:48 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421150
06/08/21 07:47 AM
06/08/21 07:47 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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I’ve said this dozens of times in the past but I’ll say it again……Many of you would be far better off to spend your money this summer on periodic applications of nitrogen and lime instead of trying to grow cowpeas and sunflowers, etc……You will be farther along 5 years from now instead of still trying to get started. smile

Last edited by CNC; 06/08/21 07:48 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421157
06/08/21 08:07 AM
06/08/21 08:07 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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The problem for many folks is gonna be “scale” and its hard to get around that issue when you’re dealing with a 1 acre plot and even a medium deer density……In order for these concepts to work then certain things need to happen no matter what plants you choose to use…..You have to be able to canopy over the surface biomass you just put down and you have to be able to grow enough biomass with the current “crop” you’re growing to feed the animals and feed the soil…..When you go out and kill off all of the native vegetation and try to grow ice cream crops in their place on small plots…….then it typically just gets wiped out and these critical processes cant take place……There is no vegetation to canopy over the biomass you just put down so it just sits there for the summer and goes stagnant……and there is very little new vegetative growth above ground and below happening with the current cycle. You have to grow plants capable of getting the job done and the smaller the scale you work on, the more limited you’ll be with your options…..Now step things up in scale and we can talk about a whole different game plan of rotating lots of acres of ice cream crops and you’re talking about some real high end management that’s very possible……but you have to keep perspective on why that’s possible……It’s a matter of scale. You have to design your plan according to scale or you will be beating your head against the wall trying to accomplish things you see others doing that isnt possible for you....

Last edited by CNC; 06/08/21 08:12 AM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421181
06/08/21 08:35 AM
06/08/21 08:35 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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More on the canopy effect…..

You know how during the summer we have some days where the air temp is high and the humidity is just maxed out and it feels like you’re walking around in a bowl of soup???......That’s how the air needs to be just above the soil surface in your field for as many days this summer as possible in order to efficiently decompose a big crop of cereal grain biomass in a timely manner. The way that you create these conditions on a constant basis is through proper C:N balance and by getting a thick roof of vegetation covering over that hay biomass. This shields it from the sun and keeps it in a nice, moist state for long periods of time like if it were in a greenhouse. It allows those perfect conditions for decomposition to occur and allows the soil fungi and bacteria an opportunity to effectively do their job. If you don’t get it well covered over with vegetation then it just bakes in the sun.

You might say “Well, I’m gonna add some milorgranite and keep the deer off my peas for a while”……but if a few weeks go by and the deer come back and wipe out all of the vegetation anyways and expose your hay to the sun again then you’re not much better off in the long run……you’ve just hit the shutdown button on your soil factory that does the processing work of decomposition….… Once that biomass is canopied over then you don’t want to see the surface again until you’re ready to transition to your fall crop....... at which time it should be decomposed and gone and ready to put down the summer biomass you just grew……rotation after rotation after rotation…….recycling biomass crop after biomass crop after biomass crop……..summer, fall, spring……..summer, fall, spring.

If scale wont allow you to accomplish these critical tasks then you will not be moving forward and progressing.

Last edited by CNC; 06/08/21 08:47 AM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421267
06/08/21 12:02 PM
06/08/21 12:02 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Here in the southeast, especially in areas like central and south Alabama…..we have a climate very similar to a tropical rain forest…..We should be able to grow and recycle a virtual jungle of vegetation back to the soil…..and each time we do so in an effective manner…….a more vibrant flush of growth emerges as the soil fertility increases. I have been doing it via tractor implements but doing so with a herd of “grazers” I believe would take it to another level. If you look where Lu-lu is standing you can see the canopy effect happening naturally covering the winter ryegrass that came back in when I opened this area up.

[Linked Image]

The deer seem to like it………..

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 06/08/21 12:05 PM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421442
06/08/21 05:43 PM
06/08/21 05:43 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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So we just got hit with about a 45 minute torrential downpour……heavy rain……As soon as it was over I ran out and snapped a few pics to illustrate the watershed concept again showing the difference that the dense understory makes now…….Here is the water rushing onto my place….Look at the underground cable marker and you can see that there’s a lot of water passing through here……..

[Linked Image]

This is just on the other side of that culvert where its running to………

[Linked Image]

And this is the "water filter" that I’ve been showing pics of in many of the previous posts that extends for several hundred yards down the watershed…..This pic is literally 100 yards from where the heavy water flow pics were taken above and you can already see how the understory veg is slowing down and sucking up the water…..Does it get it all??......No, but its not supposed to……It’s supposed to slow the water down, allow as much to infiltrate as possible, and hold the topsoil intact in the process.....which is probably the most important thing long term…….How much extra water I’m I absorbing into the soil on my property as the water passes through by managing the understory this way versus if there were zero understory present??? I'm guessing its pretty significant…….It's important to understand concepts. All of this is over with and done in just a short period of time.....These are the type events that most folks dont get to see happen after they leave their hunting property

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 06/08/21 05:56 PM.

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Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421508
06/08/21 07:55 PM
06/08/21 07:55 PM
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Jasper, AL
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joshm28 Offline
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So what are the results in terms of bucks killed? I mean that’s why we do the things we do. What has the changes you made resulted in?

Re: A Lil’ Tractor Time [Re: CNC] #3421519
06/08/21 08:07 PM
06/08/21 08:07 PM
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N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
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Nothing. No-thing


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
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