Something else to note about the two bucks I posted.....That's pretty much either end of the bell curve for that age class around here and likely pretty representative for many areas ......from 75"-150".......there are only a few of each on the ends of the curve with the majority being somewhere in the middle

I can agree to that but as stated its kinda rare for one to hit 5+...ive been lucky to kill a few old ones on the lower end of the spectrum 😀 most are around 115-120 here when mature

This is a pretty good example of the "average" buck in my opinion..........This is getting closer to the peak of the bell curve....Your typical 8 pt about this size would probably represent the true peak

Average for what age class? I probably missed the earlier post

Yep for where I'm at...I killed a 240lb 7pt about the same size antler as that one year..and this year I have a 2yr old pushing 120 already...I hope he makes it and if he does I'll prob let him go next year too ive seen some big uns before but I can count on one hand and it's usually after season

4-5 year old bucks generally speaking.......That last buck was killed in Society Hill......

That’s probably about right. Where I hunt the vast majority of 5 year olds is gonna be in the 110-120 inch range and it drastically goes down from there on both sides.

...

Now here's one that represents the extreme end of the spectrum on the lower side...........The one on the left......."The Outlier".....I suspect that this buck was over the hill......I saw him for 3 seasons but this is the only time I saw him in the daylight.......The 150 inch 4 year was probably just as much an outlier on the other end of the spectrum.....The quality of the pic sucks because its one I had to zoom in and crop....

The problem with our place is a bunch of hungry coonasses.

I used to believe that there were a bunch of bucks that never were seen and died of old age, but I am starting to have my doubts these days. With game cameras so prevalent I don't know if I have seen a buck that I have not had a picture of in several years, except maybe during the rut I may get a stray passing through. Also, with social media like it is I regularly see bucks that I had pictures of getting killed by neighbors. Around me it seems like every 40 acres has a corn pile and a tree stand on it.

Pretty much every year I may have a buck or 2 I would like to kill and several I would like to see live. And by the end of the year I normally see them all on someone's facebook post.

May have already been mentioned... I know there is some debate over changing the overall genetics of an area and don’t disagree with that. I do think with long hunting seasons and no antler restriction we tend to take out the better genetics over a long period of time basically “high grading”. Someone mentioned the lack of 10pts. A good genetics deer that can hit 10pts by 2 or 3 year old is the first to go so I think over time that gene gets thinned out.

High grading was proven in MS with the 4 point rule. It doesn’t change genetics in the herd. It lowers the percentage of bucks with higher antler scores from maturing because their eligible for harvest at younger ages. You can not alter genetics in a free ranging herd. High grading is real and it does happen over large areas.

Thankfully I am not facebook friends with any of the folks that hunt around me, so I get to watch the big deer on camera disappear and I eternally hold out hope that they'll show back up. I didn't run cameras for a long time, but curiosity got the best of me a couple seasons ago. it revealed a massive trespassing problem in the off-season that I was able to resolve, but I hate seeing every decent deer just not show back up. At least one decent one survives every year, so it keeps me coming back, but it's sad when you see what the results could be like at managed properties. You can grow big ass deer in Alabama, but not on small chunky properties.

So I completely agree with yall that the studies showed no change from efforts to change the genetics of the deer herd……However, from an evolutionary time perspective those studies would be extremely short term studies…..Animals do have the ability to evolve over time to adapt to changes in the environment. It doesn’t happen by the individual deer changing themselves over time. It happens by the individuals in the group with traits more favorable to survival passing on those traits to future off spring…..Just like with Darwin and the birds that had developed longer beaks…..Each bird didn’t start growing long beaks…..There were simply some outliers in the population with longer beaks than the rest of the birds and it was a favorable trait that they passed on while the ones with short beaks likely died off…..That’s how evolutionary change occurs.

With that being said……..On a evolutionary scale, we as hunters have only in recent times introduced into the herd that having smaller antlers with less points is a favorable trait for survival. If we continue to select for this trait over time then I DO believe that we can impact things over the course of a long time period. Evolution says it has to be possible, correct?

Another way of looking at this would be......Are we slowly moving the bell curve to the left?

No, because does carry the same genetics and young bucks with great potential are still doing some breeding.

Just ask anyone who breeds deer how complex antler expression is. It’s way more complicated than simple recessive.

Ill chime in on something I think is the most overlooked factor in horn development. Is fawn stress. Timing of doe harvest and pressure during planting season bush hogging and relocating does and their fawns constantly has all to do with the start of development. On our property we have implemented a sanctuary for what we call our house does. They aren't allowed to be hunted or even looked at wrong. Its a group of 15-20 mature does. They are powerhouses at dropping twin fawns. A lot of that is due to the fact they drop them around our Camp house and we are there all the time. When we see the first group of fawns dropped we instantly set up feed stations targeted only for them not our Bachelor groups growing horns. so we put out protein feeders in the yard and around our boat house where predators just don't frequent. A female doe with twin fawns needs the same or more protein and food than a buck growing his horns. We have started seeing the buck fawns break skin with there first set of horns which translates to them shedding their first set of horns. That more than likely translates to him growing a small rack in what most likely would have been the year most deer become a spike. I know this is not normal, but we have a 2 yr old native Alabama deer that is a 12 pt he prolly scores 90, but he will be a giant. We have killed 4 deer that scored in the 150's not sure on the exact count of 130's and one deer that scored 177. This is free range deer on 500 acres in Alabama.

Good stuff Cedar Creek - what county? I hav a lot of sanctuary - some of the best in the world at managing deer stress this for various reasons but mainly to keep deer
I am guessing you guys probably hav some pretty good soil too - that awesome on the 177 and the 2 150s