Velvet
by James. 04/29/24 08:31 AM
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: ATDH79]
#3279538
11/30/20 09:32 PM
11/30/20 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,190 AL
booner
OP
6 point
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OP
6 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,190
AL
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From what I've seen in the past by thinning out the does you will see better weights on the bucks and does also the heard will be healthier due to more available food and nutrients, more daylight buck sightings more intense rut I've seen as many as 5 mature bucks running one doe before, also I've noticed the bucks will have better horns on them from being able feed better from not having to compete with over population, the over populated places I've hunted does will be smaller in weights and the buck will also and they also have screwed up racks, just all depends on what you want We are on a plan to harvest only 4+ yr old bucks and an aggressive doe harvest. Once we get the ratio in place, the plan is to ease off on the nannies a little bit still keep them in check. We are relatively new to this and are coming from the usual “point restriction” type club that rarely shot does.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: ATDH79]
#3279764
12/01/20 07:54 AM
12/01/20 07:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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From what I've seen in the past by thinning out the does you will see better weights on the bucks and does also the heard will be healthier due to more available food and nutrients, more daylight buck sightings more intense rut I've seen as many as 5 mature bucks running one doe before, also I've noticed the bucks will have better horns on them from being able feed better from not having to compete with over population, the over populated places I've hunted does will be smaller in weights and the buck will also and they also have screwed up racks, just all depends on what you want This is the truth, but nobody wants to hear it or believe it.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: booner]
#3279767
12/01/20 07:56 AM
12/01/20 07:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,803 LASW
turkey247
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,803
LASW
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Those of you that have done it. What benefits have you seen versus the consequences of really hammering the does? Reason I ask is that we are looking at turning up the heat on them and I want to hear what experiences y’all have had prior to doing so. We have a trend going to where it isn’t uncommon to see 10+ does per sit and maybe one or two bucks at best, and the same goes for our trail cams. The entire SW 1/4 of the state did a “study” on this about 20-25 years ago. Most regret it.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: Ben2]
#3279768
12/01/20 07:56 AM
12/01/20 07:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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Never made any difference. We have the exact same size bucks and length and duration of rut now not hardly shooting any does as we did for a decade when we shot 20 or so every year. The only difference we noticed was we saw fewer deer when hunting whem we wacked the does I've heard that exact same statement from every hunter who smokes cigarettes and doesn't pay attention to scent control.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: Mbrock]
#3279822
12/01/20 09:18 AM
12/01/20 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 116 SE AL
ScentFreeHunter
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 116
SE AL
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Increased body weights, increased fawn recruitment, more intense rutting behavior and day light observations of bucks. That’s it wrapped up in one sentence. This. We started managing 10+ years ago and I have hunted the property for 25+ years. For the first 15 years, hardly any does were taken and every buck with a spike on their head was shot. It was nothing to see 10-15 and even 20 does on every sit and you could hunt the entire season and see 2 or 3 bucks. Management started with biologist recommendation of taking 50 does the first year, which we came close to doing (it's a large piece of property). Then 35 the next year, 25 the year after that. We also put in a rule that bucks must be 4.5 years old to be taken. Was slow on buck harvest those first few years, but the long-term results have been WELL worth it. We now have a very well balanced heard, I see bucks nearly every time I hunt, and it is not unusual to see 4 or 5 bucks on a sit during the rut. During those first 15 years, I never saw a buck that was harvested that was over 175 lbs or over 125 inches. Now we kill bucks every year over 200 lbs and have killed 6 bucks over 140 inches in the last 6 years, with 2 of them over 150 inches. I used to think grunting and rattling from the stand was a waste of time, something you only saw work on some hunting video. Now I regularly call in bucks during the rut because we have a much higher number of bucks and the higher number causes much more intense competition for the does. The formula is pretty simple: reduce the doe numbers and let the bucks walk until they are mature. Once you reach a more natural buck/doe ratio, cut the doe harvest down to a reasonable number to maintain the balance. Endure the low buck harvest for the first few years and then enjoy the fruits of your patience!
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: ScentFreeHunter]
#3279835
12/01/20 09:31 AM
12/01/20 09:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,095 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,095
Right behind you
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Increased body weights, increased fawn recruitment, more intense rutting behavior and day light observations of bucks. That’s it wrapped up in one sentence. This. We started managing 10+ years ago and I have hunted the property for 25+ years. For the first 15 years, hardly any does were taken and every buck with a spike on their head was shot. It was nothing to see 10-15 and even 20 does on every sit and you could hunt the entire season and see 2 or 3 bucks. Management started with biologist recommendation of taking 50 does the first year, which we came close to doing (it's a large piece of property). Then 35 the next year, 25 the year after that. We also put in a rule that bucks must be 4.5 years old to be taken. Was slow on buck harvest those first few years, but the long-term results have been WELL worth it. We now have a very well balanced heard, I see bucks nearly every time I hunt, and it is not unusual to see 4 or 5 bucks on a sit during the rut. During those first 15 years, I never saw a buck that was harvested that was over 175 lbs or over 125 inches. Now we kill bucks every year over 200 lbs and have killed 6 bucks over 140 inches in the last 6 years, with 2 of them over 150 inches. I used to think grunting and rattling from the stand was a waste of time, something you only saw work on some hunting video. Now I regularly call in bucks during the rut because we have a much higher number of bucks and the higher number causes much more intense competition for the does. The formula is pretty simple: reduce the doe numbers and let the bucks walk until they are mature. Once you reach a more natural buck/doe ratio, cut the doe harvest down to a reasonable number to maintain the balance. Endure the low buck harvest for the first few years and then enjoy the fruits of your patience! Precisely!! Some of the best hunting you’ll ever experience is on properties like this. The unfortunate part lies with the fact that IMPROPER excessive doe harvest has been applied where it shouldn’t have been for far longer than it should have been, by unqualified folks to make those decisions. Then the results can and have been disastrous. I think that’s where a lot of the naysayers come from. Proper doe management, within reason, along with letting immature bucks walk does lead to far better hunting. I’ve seen it on way too many places. And I’ve seen the happy hunters who get to see it.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: booner]
#3279848
12/01/20 09:51 AM
12/01/20 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,166 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,166
B'ham
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You can't manage nature with your trigger finger. If you have too many does someone is shooting the bucks. Some of y'all can't seem to grasp that concept Biologist included which is where this got started in the fist place.
Shooting does means less deer overall. If you have fewer deer you might have bigger body deer for the ones that are left. That's not rocket science nor does it take anything other than common sense to understand.
What some of y'all can't understand is what happens in the real world. Here in the real world ,you have too many does because someone is shooting the bucks. Having too many does is not a natural occurrence. It's NOT. You can't argue that. It does not happen in nature this way.
1) You shoot a bunch of does and whoever is currently shooting the bucks just keeps shooting the bucks. 2) And then you have less deer and less bucks because you just blasted your breeding stock. That breeding stock was what is allowing the 15 guys in your club or your neighbor to yearly blast 17..... 2-2.5 year old bucks every year.
What you wind up with is less deer and no mature bucks. We've been doing this for over 20 years in this State. But we still have too many does. How could this be? It doesn't work. Fact.
If you never shot a deer there would be the correct amount of bucks and does and your land would have the correct amount of deer on it which it could sustain. Mother Nature will take care of all this for you, you don't have to do a thing.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: Mbrock]
#3279858
12/01/20 10:03 AM
12/01/20 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,112 Cullman
BentBarrel
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,112
Cullman
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Increased body weights, increased fawn recruitment, more intense rutting behavior and day light observations of bucks. That’s it wrapped up in one sentence. Truth. Been there, done that. Saw it work on two different properties: one in Bibb county, the other in Franklin. Yes, take the does away from the green fields.
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: MorningAir]
#3279878
12/01/20 10:22 AM
12/01/20 10:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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Good luck with whatever you try. I’ve hunted 2 places that tried this balance the bucks to doe ratio thingmajig. It didn’t go well. The rut was non existent for 2 years after reducing doe numbers. The bucks scored between 115 and 140 before and after. They didn’t magically put on 15 to 20 inches of antler because there were more acorns and briars to nibble on. The only thing I noticed is that there were a lot less deer. The bucks had no reason to be on the property during January. I think it worked out great for the neighboring properties during the rut. I always hear that from people who haven't actually done it. They hear about some cigarette smokers experience and they talk like it's their own.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Aggressive Doe Harvesting
[Re: booner]
#3279891
12/01/20 10:35 AM
12/01/20 10:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,051 USA
marshmud991
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,051
USA
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This is my opinion and my opinion only. I think killing the right does rather then any doe helps with keeping bucks in an area outside the rut. I’ve noticed on our place, especially now that baiting is legal that bucks are usually the first deer to find the corn pile. They will eat use that corn pile until some old bitch doe runs them off. I’ve noticed this on plots also. I see this a lot with the cameras. We laid off killing does for the last 5-6 years and it is biting us in the arse. We all agreed to start taking out some of these older aggressive does. You know the ones that just walk around blowing all day long. So far we have killed 3 does on our place. 1 old doe and 2 young does. The same guy shot the 2 young ones. I asked what happened to the plan we had. He said they looked big enough to him. I’m still on a mission to kill a couple of them long necked long nose blowing bitches but my time is running out. I may be all wrong about the old ones we’re gonna try it.
It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.
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