Just talked to Chuck Sykes to clarify what the wording in the new reg meant. He said the wording was clarified this year and that it means that any fan whether natural or man made that is held by hand or attached to a gun is considered “mechanically manipulated”. He said not only is it illegal in Alabama, but it always has been.

Good.

Wow, very interesting. Keep your fans at home.

Ultimately, I agree. I hate giving up freedoms of any kind, but if the emerging research is true that “dominant” gobblers being taken away from a harem of hens too early in the breeding season is true.....there is not a close second place for making him vulnerable than a fan/reaping decoy. So much so, I quit carrying one years ago as I just couldn’t come to grips with how unfair it was to the turkey. When I killed one with a fan, it was ultimately the same feeling as watching Jimmy Houston or similar shoot a deer in a pen.

I figured there would be more discussion than this. I did it once or twice when the fad first started years ago but all I accomplished was pretty much spooking them into the next county. I don’t really like to do it and haven’t in several years. I think the “It’s always been illegal in Alabama” tagline they are saying is horse manure. Watch about any hunting show filmed in Alabama and they are doing it. That’s about all the Bone Collector guys do nowadays when they are hunting in Bama.

A lot of gray area. They all dance in a field/clearcut on a windy day.

What about crawling up to a spot just to setup?

No way to enforce anyway.

It has helped me with kids.

I’ve never used a fan or decoys to kill a turkey, but I don’t care what anybody else does. Every hunter has there own code of ethics they adhere to and I’m not going to impose mine on somebody else. I do think there is some irony in folks wanting to outlaw decoys and fans because it’s too easy to kill a gobbler with them but these same folks are killing birds at 75 yards with TSS 😀

Always wondered how the law would read should it ever get passed

holding a fan in yer hand is not a mechanical action no matter what he says.

What would make sense is to get rid of decoys altogether on public land. Private properties, I wouldn’t care either way.

I’m all for teaching a child how to turkey hunt the “traditional way”, which is my favorite way. But, decoys have helped me put smiles on faces as well.

I agree...

Are red gloves still leagal?

100%. Doesn’t matter what your personal preferences might be, this is a stretch and misinterpretation.

Seems like typical chuckie bullskit. Make up the rules however he sees fit.

Not a misinterpretation...... they guy that put it in there explained the intent. It is what he says it is................. even though he’s still a rooster lollipop.

What’s that about?

doesn't make any difference what his intent was, a handheld fan has no mechanical parts. Poorly written reg and would lose a case in any Circuit Court.

This^^^^

It says no mechanical,electronic or handheld,or any that attached to a gun,a fan doesn’t have to have a mechanical part,they’re handheld or usually mounted on a gun,I’ve never used one or a decoy so it doesn’t apply to me anyway

That means all decoys are illegal until they are setup and left alone. I generally tote stuff and handle stuff with my hands.

That does seem like a stretch. About the same as redefining the baiting area to be 100 yds and out of sight, but it meaning that only for deer. Say what?

I wish they had never made decoys legal at all. AL was the only state who didn't allow them, but I always thought our dcnr should have been telling the other states they should copy us instead of us wanting to be like them.

Just ignore it. Until they get rid of that arrogant, incompetent, asshat nothing will make any sense.

rooster lollipop......... that's some funny chit

I have never had any interest in "fanning".....I rarely even use decoys because that style of hunting just doesn't do much for me.

BUT.....the fact that that smug, arrogant, prick says we can't, and tried to twist some poorly-worded "rule" to make that claim, makes me REALLY want to do it, just to spite him.

I wish they'd outlaw all decoys.

Concur

It used to be that way. I don’t even remember when or why it changed.

Money. Someone in the decoy business asked them to and probably gave some money to politicians to make sure they did.

Decoys became legal in 2005 when the Conservation Advisory Board rightfully approved their use. It's only been 15 years.

Denying the opportunity to use decoys without any biological data to support a prohibition was — and still would be — nothing more than the imposition of high-minded morality.

Decoys are merely tools. Use them or don't.

Decoys have cost me more gobblers than they have gotten me. Probably a 5 to 1 ratio. I dont even tote them anymore

Kind of like crossbows.

I have used a decoy when bow hunting, only time I've done it.

Killed several coyotes using a decoy. I carry one because it causes the hens and jakes to stick around longer. No fanning for me. Too many damn outlaws in the woods.

You are right, and BhamFred is right. There is not way to codify behavior on what is and isn't "reaping". Carrying a gobbler decoy with fan to set up in a field is the same thing, and subsequently illegal under the new "rule".

As an aside, there is a legal principle called "de minimis non curat lex", in latin.

It means, literally, the law does not concern itself with trifles. Being "sneaky" with a legal strutting gobbler decoy is going to be awful hard to prove.

Could you not leave your weapon unloaded until you are set up and ready to hunt (if you want to use a gobbler decoy with a fan)?

One thing to remember with the strutter decoy - if you are not dealing with the dominant bird - good chance the subordinate want come in. Once I had a subordinate gobbler or 2 coming in on string and then see strutter and not get into gun range - I stopped using mature gobblers all together forever. Overall - unless you hav a really dominant bird you are going after - prob not good idea to carry mature gobbler anyway.
I like using decoys - but to each his own. I hav killed more turkeys with out decoys and killed several on WMAs without - but especially if I am on open ground - I use a real wimpy stuffed jake and lay down or breading hen - very deadly if they get into sight.

Jake decoy has scared more gobblers than anything imo

Well, except for standing up 2 minutes too early.

You’ve obviously never heard my calling.

Just remember - ALL decoys are illegal next season according to the wording. Cause I’ve spent the last few days trying to put them in the ground without using my hands, and it ain’t happening. I guess you could set them up the night before.

I’m guessing the intent is safety. Ok - public land, no decoys period - private land, decoys legal. See how simple that is. If they are legal on private land, and I want to use a hen drone to do a flydown, so be it.

Or make them illegal statewide, no problem. I mean, what’s next, having to buy a permit to use decoys? That would be like having to buy a permit to bait deer, where baiting is technically legal

I’m not saying it’s the reason but this is about the time the population started to dwindle. I know several people that couldn’t kill a turkey if their life depended on it, those same people ride around looking for a field gobbler that they can fan. I have fanned a few in the woods so my dad could kill one. In my experience it works about 75% of the time.The state has been doing a study for years on Skyline and other WMAs trying to understand why the population has dropped. The only thing that changed up there is the decoy law and logging not followed by fire. That’s the only 2 things I can come up with. I See lots of hens without poults every year which could be a lack of gobblers or predators or a combination. I don’t think we have half as many turkey as 20 years ago.

X100

I wish TN would do the same.

the turkey population is a lot of Alabama has been going down for 40 years due to habitat loss and predators, way before fanning or decoys became popular. Decoys run off as many or more turkeys than they attract.

Some areas that had low or no turkeys 40 years ago may of had increases, but I believe the net number is a loss across the state.

I saved 2 fans from last year thinking I might give it a try if a bird hangs up. Guess I won't.

But Fred, many on here will tell you the turkey populations are as strong as ever and there is no scientific research that says anything should change with regards to the season/rules/limits b/c of population. I personally think otherwise and have the very unpopular position that the 5 bird limit should be dropped to 3. And yes, I know that there's bad asses on here that hunt whenever they want and shoot whatever they want, so in that case the regulations shouldn't concern them anyways.

But there’s honest people who know that won’t change anything and don’t have our heads up our butts asking for more govt regulation.

If your property can’t handle a 5 bird limit, don’t kill 5. Simple as that.

I know what fanning is, but what exactly is reaping? How do you go about reaping a turkey?

You’re from florida? Riddle me this....... the state you live in has a 2 bird limit, why are they experiencing the same population decline ? I’ll wait for your answer..........

This back and forth could go on forever without good data to back it up. I am not familiar with the current Auburn research going on but I hope it provides some answers. I don't think too many 5 bird guys exist anyway...which is what the game check number support. I know I'm not because by the time I kill 2 or 3 I'm trying to get my son or a friend their bird and not many can hunt 10+ days (which is realistically what it would take to kill 5).

The research I've seen has only been a snapshot (1 year survival rates) and not longitudinal in nature. It would be nice to understand the long--term effects of harvest on the population rather than just simply applying the compensatory or additive label. It is no surprise to most turkey hunters that the population survival rates will decrease by adding harvest when viewed in one-year intervals. But when adverse conditions arise (stochastic events) over longer time scales would harvest have ended up compensatory regardless of the bird limit. IDK but as an experienced hunter I would guess so on most lands.

My family has managed the same land (several thousand acres) since before the reintroduction of turkey. Turkey populations have declined since the late 1980's for several reasons, but I can tell you our year to year population has very little to do with our annual harvest. Weather is the #1 equalizer-ice in the winter, rain/flooding in the spring, and weather influenced acorn production in the fall/winter. I have no idea about pathogens but I'm sure they run their course. Habitat transitions have played a role too (earlier to later) as well as the increased level of nest predators and mesocarnivores.

Now, if you take public land or small tracts where harvest/pressure is higher (by number of hunters) it can really limit the rebound of populations after a short event exacerbating long-term decline. I don't think the 5 bird or 3 bird (or 2) limit would make too much of a difference. (when your taking animals off the "wrong" side of the growth curve it ain't good for future numbers).

Too many guys kill over 5 that I know - they are grown and can do what they please - I can only give opinion. That can’t be good for population. Go to another state or states and hunt when you get limit here. Anybody that knows what they are doing can kill limits IF they have the birds and the time - but it is breaking the law when you go over - need to be good steward and not law breaker!!

Here's a question.....if "manipulating" the fan by hand to "produce movement" is now illegal, does that mean they can write you up if you use a turkey wing to simulate a fly-down? This is starting to get absurd...

I would't think your turkey wing would be considered a decoy, since you are relying on auditory versus visual effects (but I'm not a lawyer). I know folks that also use a hat to simulate the sound of a turkey flying down and a hat wouldn't be a decoy. I wouldn't think a game warden would write you up for waving your hat at a turkey to get his attention and to entice the turkey to come into killing range, but you never know.

“Have in possession a decoy.........which can be manipulated to produce movement”

Again, that reg makes ALL decoys “unlawful”. Read it, it’s clear.

I could live with that too.

Agreed. Although I support anyone who prefers to use a decoy, you don't need them and they often cost you a turkey.
I just wish the dang state would either make em legal or illegal. Make up your damn mind.
And get rid of that arrogant asshat!

I don't keep up with hunting in Florida too much but if turkey populations are on the decline, does that mean we should just WTF it and blast away?? Just b/c there are other factors affecting population decline besides hunting(predation, human sprawl into habitat, etc), doesn't mean you just shouldn't do anything. The fact that you admit there is population decline is justification enough for me for lower limits. FL doesn't have near the population of turkey as Alabama, probably 1/5 the number nor does it have the same amount of turkey habitat - not to mention the majority are a completely different breed of turkey than what AL has. Also, FL has 4 times the population of people as AL in general - way more human sprawl into what turkey habitat there is or was. So yeah, I get it, hunting is just one factor, doesn't mean you just say F it.

It’s a belief of mine, as well as many others, that spring gobbler harvest has no correlation to population trends. Nest success controls that. Contrary to your opinion, I believe there to be positive impacts of a higher limit. Those would be a greater motivation for landowners and hunters to manage habitat, trap predators, and spotlight turkeys as an animal that people are concerned about.

There are tons of states experiencing a decline, their limit and season structures vary from 1 bird and a couple of weeks, to Alabama’s liberal limits. If hunter harvest had an affect, why are those states not seeing a positive impact?

If someone wants to produce some research supporting gobbler harvest having a negative impact on populations I’ll listen. Until then, I won’t advocate to change a system that has been wildly successful for 60 years, simply because people like you start throwing darts hoping something works.

That’s the Chuckie way....... just like the deer pee thing.

All of this plus (correlating to higher limit) some of the most consistent hunting will always be on properties that harvest lots of birds...the old nasty birds are kept to a minimum and even a few birds from surrounding properties make short distance moves for the habitiat and hens there.

I'm really new to turkey hunting, was wondering the same thing?

They should just make it illegal to have a fan in possession.

I hope you mean while hunting...

yes. Only because it seems silly to outlaw having it in your hand but not in your pocket.

unless you have a receipt showing you paid them $15 to be allowed to commit the crime .... right? Ain't that the new DCNR version of hunter ethics?

No doubt there is a slippery slope there. I think a permit to fire off public roadways should be the next logical step. Only non-paved roads of course and only if the deer/turkey are within 100 yards of the center stripe.

Y’all still debating this? Read the reg. All decoys can be manipulated by hand, therefore ALL decoys are illegal. Period.

But you think they could get somebody to proof read the regulation wording. What a screw up.

YOU go back and actually read the regulation as printed in official form. The damn turkey tail is NOT illegal as that reg is written, I don't care what Chuckie says.

It says - to have in possession a decoy.....which can manipulated to produce movement. As part of the same sentence inside a regulation. How else can that be interpreted?

I’m saying they un-intentionally made decoys unlawful with that. They needed some better wording to accomplish what they wanted.

My point is - just make them legal or not, and not complicated.

Read the real reg.....not someones interpretation

illegal to possess a decoy that has mechanical or electrical parts which makes the decoy capable of movement this is the EXACT wording of the official reg. Tell me where that wording makes a tail illegal.

MECHANICAL OR ELECTRICAL PARTS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know exactly what 220-2-.11(e) states.

The very first sentence says exactly what I’ve already stated.

“It shall be unlawful for any person while engaged in turkey hunting in this State TO USE OR HAVE IN HIS POSSESSION A DECOY which has mechanical or electrical parts which makes the decoy capable of movement or producing sound OR which can be MANIPULATED TO PRODUCE MOVEMENT or sounds”

I messaged them and was told a fan on a stick stick in the ground was legal. I’m more interested in using a real wing for fly down which I’ve done for 30+ years.