I’ve been talking to our neighbor who use to be in the club that had our place for over 30yrs before we got it. I asked him if the plots had ever been turned with a moldboard plow. He said they have only been disced and planted. I think it would do the plots some good to turn them over and break some of the hard pan that all the years of discing has caused. I have a 2 bottom and a 3 bottom plow so it wouldn’t take us long to turn them. Is my line of thinking right or am I way over thinking this?

It wont hurt but a deep shank ripper would do a better job. Plus turning that ground will expose dormant weed seeds. I love ploughing with a moldboard. Do what you want to do. Itll be fun either way.

CNC says yes. Moldboard the piss outta it

I about spit my coffee out when I read this.

Poor CNC

Hard pan can sure he an issue with some of my areas. I have seen deer around a feeder cause tremendous compaction which resulted in limited vegetation growth when planted. I use a ripper about every 3rd year in red clay. It definitely makes a difference with moisture. A corn field that was half paratilled and the other half nothing done made a believer out of me. There was a dividing line in the field where at least a 2 ft difference in height. As for a plow in red clay, I prefer a disc plow (or fire break plow or tiller plow or whatever you choose to call it). Only when I feel its needed. In some sandy fields, I just disc them.

Plowing or chiseling deep will make alot of difference. Need to break the hardpan now and then.

Actually what "I'd say"......is that its probably gonna depend on the individual conditions and variables of each field.....There is not gonna be a one size fits all answer of yes or no,

I do have a 7’ 3pt shank I could rip them with. I may go that route.

Even a good pasture aerator will suffice for food plots.

If you want a big, bumpy mess, definitely get out the moldboard plow. I've got one I'll probably never use again.

Just gotta know how to use em. Thing is mold board plowing done right needs to be done in late fall and let cure all winter. Then finish off in spring. The freezing thawing and rains mellows it out to work down

You do know youve got to run the disk behind the plow right? Two passes with a good cutting disk and itll be smooth again.

Or one pass with a roto tiller. I thing I’m gonna try to rip it with the shank instead of the moldboard.

Definitely chisel or rip length wise then cross cut rather than mold board. Another thing, if there is timber on the edges of your plots, get your hands on a single shank ripper with a tine around three foot long to destroy those moisture stealing roots. Make your first pass around 10' from the edge then the second pass at the edge. Just have plenty of sheer bolts.

I think the first piece of equipment I'd use would be a shovel

I chiseled the crap out of my garden spot this year instead of turning it. Cant tell the difference.

I was just sitting here thinkingabout the tiller over the plow. That would give you a good seedbed with loose dirt underneath. That sounds like a pretty good deal. There has been times when I disked a watermelon field too much, I think that loosely broken dirt down deep will be a good later on.

Yeah, I know. But it's a lot of work, and I don't see the benefit. You're still left with that "empty row" or whatever you call it on one side.

That's because there's not a benefit to doing itunless something has happened to cause a special need for such
People do stuff all the time just because it sounds good

Millions of farmers would disagree with you. Then again I know atleast three hippies who would agree with you and they have pretty nice little gardens. So there is that.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying......There are numerous types of issues and conditions that may occur from one field to the next....or even in the same field over time. Let's hypothetically say that you are I are gonna be food plot consultants and we're gonna travel around all over the state helping hunters get their food plots turned around and on the right track long term. There is likely gonna be all kinds of situations we encounter and they may require using any equipment out there in order to fix what we find. We may mould bourd the piss out of some of them ........We'll decide that based on what we find when we assess each field and it's individual conditions and needs. What we won't do though is just guess at it and just do chit without a confirmed need for it....We sure won't just go do it to every field just for the hell of it. Once those problem s are fixed though then we will hopefully put the hunters on a long term plan that doesn't involve fixing these same problems again later down the road because of the exact same practices

A lot of those million farmers probably still believe that the earth is flat. The real reason more farmers are not completely no till is because they can't afford or aren't willing to risk change to get started or they plant a crop that can't be no tilled (unlike all food plot seed). So due to the fear of up front losses on 1st year yeilds, equipment and other costs to get the process started when they are getting by just fine and I completely understand. I would be willing to bet that I've plowed more acers of food plots then every person thats commented on this thread combine. So hell yes I though these folks talking about no till this and throw and mow that were bat shucks crazy until I gave it a good hard try years ago on my worst plot after a ton of toilet sitting research. This is a fact that same horrible bad soil plot 7 years later had the highest PH of all my plots with no lime or fertilizer after the first year. I could pull a CNC and go on forever about my experiences with it trying to lead y'all to water but instead I'll just say it works for me and my fertilizer bill this year on 100 plus acres of summer (beans and peanuts) and fall plots will be zero other than a possible december application of nitrogen on my fall plots same as the last 3 years.

Good to see you posting Dax.....These 7-8 acres that I'm using these principles on are probably the only few acres for miles that get treated in the same manner. There's folks that burn but that doesn't recycle the veg and build fertility in the same manner. I'm creating richer and richer black soil that's constantly putting out new early successional growth that's constantly reset. The fertility has gotten to the point now that the deer are hammering the summer broadleafs like it's candy. It reminds me of trying to grow beans and sunflowers, etc....I feel quite certain the deer can tell the difference in the fertility.

Humping your sister was Probly fun for the first 5-7 years too. But then that turned into a disaster I’m sure.

With the football forum dead and Phil Army not posting enough to keep 257 occupied, it looks like he might have found his next victim in CNC.

Turning ground has annually produced noxious weeds ( sickle pod/Coffee weed) as much as anything else. we see in our plots
We intend to try more Throw and Mow to keep from disturbing them. I would rather bush hog than plow anyway. Fun to try something different a save some tractor wear dragging a plow across bad ground.

It’s almost like you think turning over the ground magically causes organic vegetation to disappear like fairy smoke. If not, where do you think that vegetation goes, since your do nothing approach nets you “richer and richer black soil”?

Have any of yall heard of a field being laid by? This phrase refers to not ploughing or planting a field because the ground had become pour/tired. That phrase is what I was told that explained that procedure.

Laid out yes. We call a field laid by when all the chemical and fert is done on cotton or corn or what ever. That’s truly laid by

Yeah it’s almost just like that…..except its called decomposition and its not fairy smoke that’s released into the air….its carbon dioxide…….You can slow down the process of decomposition and increase your % soil organic matter over time….also called humus…..or you can speed up the process and actually end up with a net loss each year…….eventually resulting in having none……It completely depends on your management practices

What I’m wanting to do has nothing to do with the soil fertility. We do soil samples and the soil is in great shap. My idea is about busting the hard pan from years and years of discing. All I wanted to know was if anyone turned their plots over to help this not start another throw and mow pissing match. I’m a plow boy not a grass mower so throw and mow is out for now but I do appreciate the passion some have for it. I’m not there yet. I know what works for us. Thanks.

I don't need to throw and mow because I've got the proper equipment to do it right. I am not against throw and mow but that's for the 35hp tractor crowd. Nothing wrong with it. At all IMO. I am a believer in a soil having really good tilth. Personally I do not have time to run around in circles all day on an acre with 5 and 6ft equipment. If that's all I had I would be throwing and mowing too. But that's not what I have so....

Back to the story at hand - I don't think you need to subsoil for plot seed myself but I'm open to discuss that I certainly don't know everything. I do not plow with a moldboard. I sold mine and bought a chisel and I personally think that works better I have twisted shovels and it flips a little dirt on top and seems to do well starting the decomposing process. The plow causes a hard pan IMO. But a plow or either type won't break up that hard pan either way.... the chisel doesn't run any deeper. It looks like it would run down to waist deep. That thing sits up that high..... but it only runs down about 1/2 the shovel length so still pretty shallow. But works well you just need serious horsepower to pull one and you got that Marshmud. I like mine.

I have several fields with Orangeberg soil that most definitely benefit from being turned. I have some others that are a sandy loam and it doesn't seem to help them as much. My garden land in Coosa county is another soil type that benefits from being turned, and I just do it every year. I've seen enough to know that there is no point in experimenting with it; just turn it every year. I don't think it makes any difference whether you use a diskplow or a moldboard; the effect is the same. It's a lot easier for me to get a neat job with the moldboard, but that may be due to my specific plows and the limited skill of the operator.

Auburn ran some experiments years ago on cotton land that had hardpans in the soil. Turning the fields definitely improved yields, but they also found that yields improved almost as much by growing a crop of Bahia grass one year. The Bahia roots would punch holes in the hardpan, and then the cotton roots could use those holes. The effect lasted for several years before they would have to either turn it or grow another Bahia crop. If you have soil like this, you can increase yields for sure by doing something to the hardpan.

Goatkiller would not be able to bear watching me break land with my 26 hp tractor and a 2 bottom moldboard, but if I just gear it down and go slow it will do the job. You already have the equipment you need; give it a try and see how it works. If I had any doubts, I would try breaking half of several plots and see how they do compared to the other half. Auburn ain't the only place that can do Ag experiments. Good luck with it!

I have around 25-30 different plant species during the summer that are preforming functions just like this one you mentioned. I don’t know what all the individual functions may be but I trust that someone knew what they were doing when they created the plants and the process so I simply nurture it along. Folks may say that this and that about it but is that not the same faith that you would ask someone to have on Sunday morning? Isn't this general idea of "nurturing it along" even specifically mentioned when talking about the plants and our role?

I appreciate the passion you have for growing weeds. I don’t like weeds and spent most of my life killing weeds. If I didn’t plant it I don’t want it growing. We plant cover crops and use herbicide to kill unwanted weeds. Guess I’m crazy but there will never be a time that I will spend my hard earned money to grow weeds. I’m gonna bring my set of shanks and rip it as deep as I possibly can. If I dig up weed seeds, I will take care of them as needed.

Well, what you call a “weed”…..the deer and the soil both call “food”………and I’m managing the plots for deer….not humans……Folks aren’t mounting and putting trophy ears of corn and bean pods on their wall either…..so until they do, I’m not gonna define success by farming standards and what everyone thinks “looks pretty”. Another shooter on the ground is what I think looks pretty.

Standing about 70-80 bushel acre beans in the summer and about 180 bushel corn left standing for the winter seems to be working pretty well for me as far as horns go. I just really can't afford to buy it by the semi-truck load so I prefer to grow it myself.

Weed free at that

You know what, you can plant those tall tine tubers to bust that hard pan.

It still cost more to plant those beans and corn than doing throw and mow. Deer love Polk salad.

Were is that like button for that pic? I've got two 14 inch john deer ploughs for sale if anybody wants one. They're antiques.

I’m sure it does……at an extremely high cost……And how much additional return on your investment do you suppose you are getting over a method like the one I'm using at a fraction of the cost?? If we compare the ROI numbers then does that high dollar farming for wildlife that you’re doing still look like such a pretty picture? I guess it probably does to some folks

257, I saw some of the prettiest corn and beans in the bottoms on apple valley rd on the way to somerville this morning. You ever seen the place? I bet some of that corn was 10ft tall and just nearly black it was so dark.

Yep. One of my customers. He used to be in the dairy business

Beautiful crops.

Even better up here in the river valley. A few more timely rains would have us sitting real nice

How bout them cowboys.......

Heavy equipment on really moist soil causes hard pan as much as anything. Radishes do a good job of breaking up hard pan soil.

I started to bring radishes into the conversation a few days ago. 257 has some good info about sodbusters and how theyll break hardpan.

We plant radishes every year. Sodbuster, Daikon, groundhog; they are all pretty much the same. Tubers get a couple inches in diameter and can send a taproot down 15-20”. They work great for hard pan.

I add 1.5lb to 2.5lb per acre of Daikon to my normal winter mix, they do a good job breaking up the ground. I have not tilled in 5 years. I made a mistake about 4 years ago and planted 5lb to the acre, it was a true radish patch, the smell in the spring when they all started to rot was impressive.

I hang a bottom plow in my plots every year👍

I'm gonna turn one of our plots in TN this year. There's about a 100 foot radius in it that always produces arrowheads