Gomer that is how I read it as well. Based upon that data, reducing the limit to 3 would only result in roughly 7% less turkeys killed each season

FIFY

I may be reading the chart wrong because I am not a turkey biologist. The numbers show approximately 400 gobblers taken each year as the 4th and 5th birds. Dividing that by the 67 counties in Alabama a 3 bird limit would save about 6 gobblers per county. I fail to understand how this would have any significant effect on the population.

Not to mention that, just due to the nature of it, most of those 4th and 5th birds are likely killed in the latter half of the season, so they have more than likely already had the chance to breed with multiple hens at that point.

Why stop at 5?
Chuck don't give a schit about biology so why should I?

You guys are just counting the honest hunters who report every bird. For every hunter who uses game check there’s 3 who never report anything for deer and turkey. More people are hunting turkey than ever before in Alabama and predation is on the rise in most counties due to lack of trapping and predator hunting.

If they are already outlaws, they aren’t going to magically start following the law. So no reason to count them. Use some logic man.

[quote=Southwood7]

Personal experience managing my place and seeing the decline in turkey numbers compared to 20 years ago. I manage exclusively for turkey and we have had some lean years in the past 10 years. Turkey hunting wasn’t cool 20 years ago like it is now so the number of hunters was a lot lower. I talked to a biologist this morning who has worked on my place and asked him about this podcast and he agreed with the direction Chamberlain was heading. Anybody who draws any conclusion based on game check numbers is low balling to the highest degree.

I am, logic says that unfortunately the honest folks have to account for the dishonest folks even if that means killing less. Dead turkeys killed by dishonest hunters still amount to dead turkeys. So you agree with a 5 bird limit?

So you think that having more gobblers will produce more poults? A gobblers role in poult production is breeding. That’s it. He doesn’t protect the eggs, sit on the eggs or help raise the poults. Anecdotal evidence you’ve gathered from your property over the years does not justify a state wide lowering of the limit to 3 gobblers. If you feel your property is lean on gobblers, then don’t hunt it next year.

I actually would like the limit to be 1 bird a day. Decoys go back to being outlawed, and a few other things.

Now let’s get back to that logic of yours....... the honest man should kill less because we have to account for the outlaws? So you are saying that saving those 405 birds that the honest man would not have killed last year, those 6 birds per county, will help with a decline in numbers? Really?

If you want to have a 3 bird limit, you’ve stated you have some land you manage for turkeys, so self impose your limit.

Chamberlain and others spout off all these theories as if they are fact. Here’s a fact for you, the only research we have on whether hunters killing gobblers affect the population is history. There is no research other than the success or lack of, across states with similar habitat and different season lengths, bag limits, and start dates. Across this broad spectrum of experiments, from Arkansas to Florida, we have years of data, some seasons are two weeks, some are 7, some limits are 1, some are 5, some come in later, some come in earlier. Want to know the only thing there is in common among all of them? A supposed decline in turkey numbers..... yet, populations in all states were stable or growing up until recently, despite harvest or seasons. Why would something that worked for 50 years, all the sudden not work?

I will never believe that hunter numbers are at an all time low, yet they are the reason that such a successful system suddenly quit working.

You will never convince me that harvesting gobblers affects future numbers, unless a transparent study is performed.

A self appointed “turkey doc’s” theories do not trump years of data and experiment through variations between states.

Seems like most of us, myself included, are looking for the easy button. That simple solution. The quick fix.

It amazes me how quick people are to buy in to Chamberlain’s speculation about seasons being too early as the cause of declines. And adopt it as fact with no real studies to back it up.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I bet it ain’t one simple thing that will bring back the good ole days of turkey hunting.

The only way you'll bring back the good ole days of turkey hunting Is to go back to what made them the good ole days to start with- about 95 percent of people not hunting them.

This

The thing I learned from the podcast was we need a season on great horned owls. Predators are mentioned as a major problem in poult recruitment. Locally, predator control should have a positive effect on turkey populations. That is where I will focus my efforts and trapping nest predators is easy and fun!

As we are proposing regulations here is my proposal. Let anyone that turns in 10 coon, coyote, bobcat, skunk or possum tails in any combination hunt starting March 15th. Give them an extra bird if they turn in 40 tails. Would be a stinking mess at the check in station but I bet we would have more turkeys!

I don’t know about one a day but decoys outlawed, amen.



Not saying I know this is the reason, but it’s a reason it might be different. Hunters are way more effective today than in the previous 50 years. Hunters have better calls to sound more like a turkey. Youtube and the internet have allowed new Hunters to obtain decades worth of experience in a single offseason. I still remember being 11 or 12 years old sitting in Hardee’s in Lee county on an April morning in 1999 or 2000 telling an old timer in there about how a pasture turkey was kicking my butt over and over and over again. He finally pulled me aside and got real quiet and said don’t tell anybody else this, but here’s how you kill that turkey. Take a fan off a turkey you’ve killed, get there early, lay down behind a terrace and as soon as that turkey lands in the pasture, you put that fan up and stick your gun barrel beside it. Sure enough, it worked. Blew my mind. I never would’ve dreamed of doing that. Now almost everybody crawls behind a fan or strutter because they’ve seen videos of it. Don’t get me started on remote control decoys or cellphone-linked trail cams.


Anybody that says hunter numbers are at an all time low isn’t giving it to you straight. We have just as many or more hunters today as we did any year in the 90s. And while we don’t have as many as we did in the 70s, I can guarantee you hunter- hours afield is way higher than it was in the 70s with how affluent our society has become allowing people to travel all over to hunt.

https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/Subpages/LicenseInfo/Hunting.htm

I don’t know if that would make one more turkey, but the highways would sure be cleaner.

Go kill every coon and possum that you can from a piece of property you can and see if you have more poults..

Predator control is huge in nesting success; but it’s a pain in the ass. It’s much easier for “those that know” to gloss over that and just try to tout their theories to lower limits

I couldn’t agree more about predation and we stay after it all year long. I was as pissed as anyone about losing a week this year and I’m not advocating a later start to the season. I think it all contributes to lower numbers and we as sportsmen have to do our best to manage now in our time so our grandchildren can have turkeys to hunt. I’m sure there was a time when nobody thought they would run out of quail to shoot.

A twist on the quail comparison: the numbers ran low enough for hunters to quit hunting them almost altogether years ago, yet we have seen no real rebound whatsoever. I think that any sane person would admit that quail hunters were not a major contributing factor to their decimation. Why is it different for turkeys?