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Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
#310837
03/28/12 11:38 AM
03/28/12 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,116 Chelsea, AL
straycat
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,116
Chelsea, AL
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Why does it take 2 weeks in Jefferson County to get your concealed carry permit? I figured with computer technology it should be quite fast to run a background check.
What are the wait times in other counties? I've heard some are same day.
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: straycat]
#310891
03/28/12 01:13 PM
03/28/12 01:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,238 Sterrett, AL, USA
stkshtr
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,238
Sterrett, AL, USA
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Did you mail it in? I take mine to Bessemer and it has never taken me more than 10 minutes and I'm out with permit in hand.
CISM- Firefighter Chaplain-C.E.R.T. Instructor Refuel Ministries-HAM (KM4LBG)
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: stkshtr]
#310903
03/28/12 01:30 PM
03/28/12 01:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,116 Chelsea, AL
straycat
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,116
Chelsea, AL
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Did you mail it in? I take mine to Bessemer and it has never taken me more than 10 minutes and I'm out with permit in hand. Was that for a renewal? This is the first time for me getting one. Of course I've never carried in my truck or concealed on my person since I wasn't properly permitted. Figured it was time to get one just in case I ever decided to have that option. I hand delivered it to the JeffCo Sherriff Office downtown on 8th Ave. They gave me a slip of paper with a number on it and say call in 2 weeks. I called today after 1.5 weeks and was told my permit "hasn't come back yet".
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: straycat]
#310920
03/28/12 02:02 PM
03/28/12 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,989 In a Van, down by the River
quailman
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,989
In a Van, down by the River
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Same here in Baldwin Co. About 10 minutes and $30 and you're out the door.
Life is a journey. Make sure and bring plenty of Beer.
My luck has been so bad lately, it could be raining pussies and I'd catch one with a dick broke off in it.
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: straycat]
#310954
03/28/12 03:39 PM
03/28/12 03:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,828 West Tennessee
BamaProud
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,828
West Tennessee
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Consider yourself lucky. In Tennessee there is an 8 hour class, followed by 50 round qualification with your gun, followed by fingerprinting, 3 month processing period and a agonizing day at the DMV, capped off with a $125.00 fee to get a permit.
Save the Little ones for the little ones
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: BamaProud]
#311005
03/28/12 05:25 PM
03/28/12 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,783 Hoover
burbank
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,783
Hoover
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Consider yourself lucky. In Tennessee there is an 8 hour class, followed by 50 round qualification with your gun, followed by fingerprinting, 3 month processing period and a agonizing day at the DMV, capped off with a $125.00 fee to get a permit. That is just TOTAL BS. I'm not sure how that is even constitutional.
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: straycat]
#311022
03/28/12 05:54 PM
03/28/12 05:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,996 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,996
Round ‘bout there
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The Constitution says you have the right to own a firearm.
It does not limit the city, county or state in what they can require of you to have one within their boundaries.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: Clem]
#311027
03/28/12 06:05 PM
03/28/12 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,783 Hoover
burbank
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,783
Hoover
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The Constitution says you have the right to own a firearm.
It does not limit the city, county or state in what they can require of you to have one within their boundaries.
Yea, I get that. It's still BS in my opinion.
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: Clem]
#311032
03/28/12 06:27 PM
03/28/12 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,116 Chelsea, AL
straycat
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,116
Chelsea, AL
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The Constitution says you have the right to own a firearm.
It does not limit the city, county or state in what they can require of you to have one within their boundaries.
The Constitution DOES limit what a city, county or state can require, hence the language "shall not be infringed". "Keep and bear" was intended to be an individual right, written to be an individual right...not the collective right within the militia language, as the gun control left has pushed for for decades. However, far too many people in law enforcement, judges and courts don't see it that way. So we are forced to be restricted too much and jump through too many hoops. I feel the intent of the 2nd am. has been perverted with many of the gun laws. The SCOTUS has made some good advances back toward individual rights, but there is still a long way to go to make sure our individual liberties stop being taxed and infringed. At least that is my take on how it should be.
Last edited by straycat; 03/28/12 06:28 PM.
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: straycat]
#311077
03/28/12 07:26 PM
03/28/12 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 694 Guntersville,Al
Oatsj
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 694
Guntersville,Al
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72 Hrs in marshall and 10.00
retired 6 Saturdays and one Sunday
I am lucky, I don't have as far to go as I have been!
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: Clem]
#311082
03/28/12 07:36 PM
03/28/12 07:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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The Constitution says you have the right to own a firearm.
It does not limit the city, county or state in what they can require of you to have one within their boundaries.
Since you like to spout off without reading first, here's you some cut-and-paste to chew on: Constitution of Alabama 1901 SECTION 2 People source of power.
That all political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit; and that, therefore, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to change their form of government in such manner as they may deem expedient. SECTION 26 Right to bear arms.
That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. SECTION 35 Objective of government.
That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression. SECTION 36 Construction of Declaration of Rights.
That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate. (emphasis added) Every judge, legislator, sheriff, and any other public official in this state must swear to support our Constitutions before they are delegated any authority by the people of this state: Article XVI Oath of Office. SECTION 279
Required of members of legislature and executive and judicial officers; form; administration. All members of the legislature, and all officers, executive and judicial, before they enter upon the execution of the duties of their respective offices, shall take the following oath or affirmation:
"I, …, solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Alabama, so long as I continue a citizen thereof; and that I will faithfully and honestly discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, to the best of my ability. So help me God."
The oath may be administered by the presiding officer of either house of the legislature, or by any officer authorized by law to administer an oath. (emphasis added) Many of them don't mind lying once they get a little authority. Lying in an official proceeding such as taking constitutional oath of office is a felony: Section 13A-10-101 Perjury in the first degree.
(a) A person commits the crime of perjury in the first degree when in any official proceeding he swears falsely and his false statement is material to the proceeding in which it is made.
(b) Perjury in the first degree is a Class C felony.
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §4905.)
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: straycat]
#311138
03/28/12 09:12 PM
03/28/12 09:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,996 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,996
Round ‘bout there
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You can carry a firearm. U.S. and Alabama constitutions say so.
Which part of them says a city, county or state cannot require you to have a permit, register, undergo 'qualifying' training (like in Tennessee) or anything like that?
The Supreme Court said as much in Heller, didn't it? That citizens are able to possess firearms under the Second Amendment ... but it did not prevent cities, counties or states from imposing some regulations or requirements?
Wasn't that the crux of their ruling, which allows D.C. residents to possess guns but also allows the District to continue its idiotic permitting requirements?
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: Concealed Carry Permit waiting times in Jefferson Co.?
[Re: Clem]
#311198
03/28/12 10:48 PM
03/28/12 10:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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You can carry a firearm. U.S. and Alabama constitutions say so.
Which part of them says a city, county or state cannot require you to have a permit, register, undergo 'qualifying' training (like in Tennessee) or anything like that?
The Supreme Court said as much in Heller, didn't it? That citizens are able to possess firearms under the Second Amendment ... but it did not prevent cities, counties or states from imposing some regulations or requirements?
Wasn't that the crux of their ruling, which allows D.C. residents to possess guns but also allows the District to continue its idiotic permitting requirements?
Constitution of Alabama 1901 SECTION 36
Construction of Declaration of Rights. That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate. What does "excepted out of the general powers of government" mean to you? All this crap started when the judges on the Alabama Supreme Court paid more attention to English common law than they did our state Constitution even though they had sworn to uphold our Constitutions. They ignored Section 30 of the Constitution of 1819 when they upheld a law that made it a crime for a sheriff to carry a concealed pistol in defense of himself after his life was threatened: Constitution of Alabama 1819 SEC. 30.
This enumeration of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people: and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, or any transgression of any of the high powers herein delegated, we declare, that every thing in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate; and that all laws contrary thereto, or to the following provisions, shall be void. (emphasis added) Here's what was said about carrying concealed pistols in The State v Reid when they ruled that carrying concealed pistols is not part of your right to bear arms for defense: ALABAMA.
The State v. Reid.
* * * *
THE STATE V. REID
1. The act of the 1st of February, 1839, "To suppress the evil practice of carrying weapons secretly," does not either directly, or indirectly tend to divest the citizen of the "right to bear arms in defence of himself and the State;" and is, therefore consistent with the 23d section of the 1 Art. of the constitution.
The defendant was indicted in the Circuit Court of Montgomery, for carrying concealed about his person, a certain species of fire arms, called a Pistol, contrary to the form of the statute, &c. To which he pleased not guilty. Thereupon the case was submitted to a jury, who found the defendant guilty, and assessed a fine against him, of fifty dollars, for which sum the court rendered a judgment, and directed that he be imprisoned in the common jail, for the space of six hours, and thereafter, until the fine and costs were paid.
On the trial it was proved, that the defendant carried concealed about his person, a pistol. That while making a settlement as sheriff, he had been attacked by an individual of a dangerous and desperate character, who afterwards threatened his person, and came to his office several times to look for him. It was also proved, that these threats were communicated to the defendant, and the pistol brought to him by a friend, who conceived his life was in danger.
The defendant thereupon moved the court, to charge the jury, that the law on which the indictment was founded was unconstitutional, and that the defendant could not be convicted; which charge was refused by the court. The defendant then moved the court, to charge the jury, that if they believed from the evidence that the defendant carried the weapon concealed for the purpose of defending his person, and that it was necessary, to carry the weapon concealed for that purpose, then, they should acquit the defendant, which charge was also refused. Whereupon the court charged the jury, that the law upon which the indictment was founded, was constitutional, and that although the jury might believe from the evidence, that the defendant carried the weapon for the defence of his person, and although it was necessary for his defence that the weapon should be concealed, yet these facts would only go in mitigation, and did not constitute a complete defence. Which charge, as well as the refusal to give the several charges asked for; were at the request of the defendant referred to this court for its decision, as presenting novel and difficult questions of law.
The defendant then moved in arrest of judgment, on the ground, that the statute on which the indictment was founded was unconstitutional, which motion was overruled by the court, and the question of law thereupon arising referred to this court, as novel and difficult.
The Attorney General for the State, argued that it was competent for the Legislature to prohibit the wearing of concealed weapons, that such a law did not conflict with the constitutional provision, which guarantied to the citizen the right to bear arms in the defence of himself and the State. That the statute under which the defendant was convicted did not impair that right, while it proposed to discountenance by punishment, a practice which bad been greatly promotive of violence and bloodshed. [Note: So why does the state now allow such practice to be licensed by the sheriff??]
Every man was still left free to carry arms openly, the only manner in which they could be used for defensive purposes.
Mr. Goldthwaite for the defendant, insisted that the act of the Legislature on which the indictment was founded, abridges the right secured to the citizen by the 23d section of the 1st article of the constitution. There is no restriction on the exercise of the right, and as the grant is in general terms, the Legislature cannot prescribe limits to it. [1 Story on Con. 407-8: Sturgus v. Crowninshield, 4 Wheat. Rep. 102-202: Bliss v. Commonwealth, 2 Litt. Rep. 90.] Has not a subsequent Legislature (if the statute in question be constitutional) the right to prohibit the carrying of arms openly, and both acts being in force, the right of carrying arms at all, would be taken away. Such a state of things, all will admit, cannot exist without a violation of the constitution.
The constitution of the United States, provides that the liberty of the press shall not be abridged. The authorities are clear that no previous restraint shall be imposed upon publications. [3 Story on Con. 736.] The party publishing is responsible for the abuse of the liberty. [3 Story on Con. 748.] So in regard to the bearing of arms, the person making an improper use of them is amenable to the laws, though he may carry them in any manner he pleases.
COLLIER, C. J.--By the first section of the act, "to suppress the evil practice of carrying weapons secretly," [Acts of 1838-9] it is enacted, " that if any person shall carry concealed about his person, any species of fire arms, or any Bowie knife, Arkansas tooth pick, or any other knife of the like kind, dirk, or any other deadly weapon, the person so offending, shall on conviction thereof, before any court having competent jurisdiction, pay a fine not less than fifty nor more than five hundred dollars, to be assessed by the jury trying the case; and be imprisoned for a term not exceeding three months, at the discretion of the judge of said court." Under this section the defendant was indicted, and he insists that it is repugnant to the constitution of this State, which declares that, "Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State," [23d sec., 1 art. of the Con.] and is, therefore, inoperative and void.
A provision similar to that, with which the statute in question is said to come in collision, is contained in the constitutions of several of the States, and was doubtless suggested by the "Bill of Rights" of the 1 W. and M. which embodies many provisions in favor of the liberty of the subject, and is said to be for the most part, in affirmance of the common law. That enactment after declaring it against law, to raise or keep a standing army in the kingdom in time of peace, without the consent of Parliament, declares "that the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their Defence, suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by law." [6 vol. Statutes of the Realm, 143; Crabb's Eng. Law, 570.]
The bill of rights was doubtless induced by the high perogative claims of the Stuarts, even after the restoration of Chas. the II., but more especially by the extraordinary assumptions of Jas. the II., by which he attempted to assail the liberties and religion of the people, and to render inefficient the enactments of Parliament, by the exercise of a dispensing power.
The bill of rights, among other things confirms the declaration of rights, to which the Prince of Orange yielded his assent in the presence of both houses of Parliament, upon ascending the throne. That instrument recited the illegal and arbitrary acts committed by the late King, and declared almost in the terms of the recital, that such acts were illegal. The evil which was intended to be remedied by the provision quoted, was a denial of the right of Protestants to have arms for their defence, and not an inhibition to wear them secretly. Such being the mischief, the remedy must be construed only to extend so far as to effect its removal.
We have taken this brief notice of the English statute, as it may serve to aid us in the construction of our constitutional provision, which secures to the citizen the right to bear arms. [Note: What about Section 30 of our own Constitution of Alabama 1819???]
It was argued for the defendant that, where the constitution grants a power, it must be understood to grant it entire; and in such a case, it will be incompetent for the Legislature to enact a law in derogation of it. The constitutional provision which we are to examine, cannot be considered as conferring either upon the Legislature, or the people any new or additional authority. The constitution of a State, is an instrument of restraint and limitation upon powers already plenary, so far as it respects the functions of government and the objects of legislation. We are then, to regard the provision in question, as a guaranty to the people of the right to bear arms, "in defence of themselves and the State," and an inhibition upon the Legislature to divest it by any enactment.
The question recurs, does the act, "To suppress the evil practice of carrying weapons secretly," trench upon the constitutional rights of the citizen. We think not. The constitution in declaring that, "Every citizen has the right to bear arms in defence of himself and the State," has neither expressly nor by implication, denied to the Legislature, the right to enact laws in regard to the manner in which arms shall be borne. [Note: What about Section 30 of the Constitution of Alabama 1819???] The right guarantied to the citizen, is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places, but merely "in defence of himself and the State." The terms in which this provision is phrased seems to us, necessarily to leave with the Legislature the authority to adopt such regulations of police, as may be dictated by the safety of the people and the advancement of public morals. The statute of 1 Wm. and M. while it declares the right of the subject, it refers to Parliament to determine what arms shall be borne and how; while our constitution being silent as to the action of the Legislature, does not divest it of a power over the subject, which pertained to it independent of an express grant. [Note: What about Section 30 of the Constitution of Alabama 1819???]
We do not desire to be understood as maintaining, that regulating the manner of hearing arms, the authority of the Legislature has no other limit than its own discretion. A statute which, under the pretence of regulating, amounts to a destruction of the right, or which requires arms to be so borne as to render them wholly useless for the purpose of defence, would be clearly unconstitutional. [Note: What does a law that requires a permit to carry a pistol in a vehicle both openly and concealed do???] But a law which is intended merely to promote personal security, and to put down lawless aggression and violence, and to that end inhibits the wearing of certain weapons, in such a manner as is calculated to exert an unhappy influence upon the moral feelings of the wearer, by making him less regardful of the personal security of others, does not come in collision with the constitution. [Note: So this is what a pistol license allows now???]
We are aware that the court of Appeals of Kentucky, in Bliss v. Commonwealth, [2 Litt. Rep. 90] attained a conclusion seemingly the opposite of that to which our judgments incline. In that case, the appellant was indicted under a statute which is in these words, "That any person in this commonwealth who shall hereafter wear a pocket pistol, dirk, large knife, or sword in a cane concealed as a weapon, unless when travelling on a journey, shall be fined in any sum not less than one hundred dollars; which may be recovered in any court having jurisdiction of like sums, by action of debt or on the presentment of a grand jury; and a prosecutor in such presentment shall not be necessary. One half of such fine shall be to the use of the informer; and the other to the use of this commonwealth." The twenty third section of the tenth article of the constitution of Kentucky, provides "that the right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State, shall not be questioned;" and the question before the court was, did the act of the Legislature impugn the right secured by the constitution.
The court considered that the right to hear arms, existed without any restriction, at the adoption of the constitution, and that the right of the "citizen" was as directly assailed by the provisions of the statute, as though they were forbid carrying guns on their shoulders, swords in scabbards, or when in conflict with an enemy were not allowed the use of bayonets. "If the act be consistent with the constitution" say the court, "it cannot be incompatible with that instrument, for the Legislature by successive enactments, to entirely cut off the exercise of the right of the citizens to bear arms. For in principle, there is no difference between a law prohibiting the wearing concealed arms, and a law prohibiting the wearing such as are exposed; and if the former be unconstitutional, the latter must be so likewise.
"We may possibly be told, that though a law of either description may be enacted consistently with the constitution, it would be incompatible with that instrument, to enact laws of both descriptions. But if either, when alone, be consistent with the constitution, which it may be asked, would be incompatible with that instrument, if both were enacted.
"The law first enacted would not be; for as the argument supposes, either may be enacted consistent with the constitution, that which is first enacted must, at the time of enactment, be consistent with the constitution; and if then consistent, it cannot become otherwise by any subsequent act of the Legislature. It must, therefore, be the latter act, which the argument infers would be incompatible with the constitution.
"But suppose the order of enactment was reversed, and instead of being the first, that which was first, had been the last; the argument to be consistent should nevertheless, insist on the last enactment being in conflict with the constitution. So that the absurd consequence would thence follow, of making the same act of the Legislature, either consistent with the constitution, or not so, according as it may precede or follow some other enactment of a different import. Besides, by insisting on the previous act producing any effect on the latter, the argument implies, that the previous one operates as a partial restraint on the right of the citizens to hear arms, and proceeds on the notion, that by prohibiting the exercise of the residue of right not affected by the first act, the latter act comes in collision with the constitution. But it should not be forgotten, that it is not only part of the right that is secured by the constitution; it is the right entire and complete, as it existed at the adoption of the constitution; and if any portion of that right be impaired, immaterial how small the part may be, and immaterial the order of time at which it may be done, it is equally forbidden by the constitution."
We have thought it proper to state thus at length, the argu- ment employed by the court, in Bliss v. Commonwealth, because it places in a very strong point of view, the objection to the statute we are called on to examine. Whether the peculiar terms employed in the Kentucky constitution, viz: "That the right of the citizens to bear arms, &c. shall not be questioned," influenced to any extent, the conclusion of the court, that the right could not be regulated, but must remain as it was at the time of its adoption, we are not prepared to say. Yet, we, are strongly inclined to believe, that the inhibition to question the right, was regarded as more potent than a mere afirmative declaration, intended to secure it to the citizen; and that the one amounted to a denial of the right to legislate on the subject, the other would tolerate legislation to any extent which did not actually or in its consequences destroy the right to bear arms.
But the court say that it is a matter which will not admit of legislative regulation, and in order to test the correctness of its opinion, supposes one Legislature to prohibit the bearing secretly, and a subsequent Legislature to enact a law against bearing them openly; and then asks the question, whether the first or last enactment would be unconstitutional. Under the provision of our constitution, we incline to the opinion that the Legislature cannot inhibit the citizen from bearing arms openly, because it authorizes him to bear them for the purposes of defending himself and the State, and it is only when carried openly, that they can be efficiently used for defence. [Note: The court of last resort said that the Legislature cannot inhibit the citizen from bearing arms openly, yet a permit is required to carry a pistol openly in a vehicle???]
In respect to the two prohibitory enactments supposed by the court of Appeals of Kentucky, we should be disposed to think, if either one, when standing alone, would be constitutional that the last would be regarded as an expression of the will of the Legislature when enacted, and as it could not operate in harmony with the first, would by implication, repeal it. This view, we think, accords with the decision of the supreme court of the United States, in Sturges v. Crowninshield, (4 Wheat. Rep. 122) in which the question arose, whether the Legislature of a State, possessed the constitutional right to enact a bankrupt law, inasmuch as the power to establish a general bankrupt law was con- ferred upon Congress, by the constitution of the United States. The court were of opinion, that the right to adopt such a measure pertained to the Legislatures of the States, previous to the ratification of the Federal constitution, and that the insertion in that instrument, of an afirmative grant of power to Congress to legislate on the subject, did not ipso facto, divest the pre-existent right of the States, until Congress had exercised the power conferred. But when this was done, then the local laws would become inoperative.
Without further noticing the case of Bliss v. Commonwealth, it may be proper to remark, that it received the assent of but two of the Judges of the court of appeals, while it was dissented from by the third.
In The State v. Mitchell (3 Blackf. Rep. 229;) it appears that the defendant was indicted under a section of a statute of Indiana, which is as follows: "That every person, not being a traveller, who shall wear or carry any dirk, pistol, sword in a cane, or other dangerous weapon concealed, shall upon conviction thereof, be fined in any sum not exceeding one hundred dollars." (Laws of Indiana, ed. of 1831, p. 192.) It was insisted that this enactment was opposed to the constitution of Indiana, which declares "that the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State;" but the court decided against the objection; and held the act to be constitutional.
The difference between the terms used in the constitution of Indiana, and that of our own State, is so entirely immaterial, that it could not possibly authorize a difference of construction.
The cases cited; are the only adjudications we have been able to find, in regard to the right of the people to bear arms; and while the one sustains the constitutionality of the enactment in question, the other does not disprove it. But let it be conceded that it is doubtful, whether the statute does not come in collision with the constitution, yet it is our duty to maintain its validity. It has received the assent of the two houses of the General Assembly and the Governor, under a solemn pledge to support the constitution; and their opinion is at least, prima facie evidence, that they have not overstepped the limits of legislative competency. Before the judiciary can with propriety declare an act of the Legislature unconstitutional, a case should be presented in which there is no rational doubt. (Bank of Newbern v. Taylor, 1 Caro. L. Repo: 246; Ex parte McCollum 1 Cow. Rep. 550.)
It appears from the case as referred to this court, that the defendant moved the circuit judge "to charge the jury, that if they believed from the evidence, that the defendant carried the weapon concealed for the purpose of, defending his person, and that it was necessary to carry the weapon concealed for that purpose, then, they should acquit the defendant; which charge was also refused." There was no evidence adduced, tending to show that the defendant could not have defended himself by carrying the pistol openly, as by secreting it about his person: it is difficult to conceive, how one could be placed in such an attitude, consistently with the law which recognizes the right of self-protection. If the emergency is pressing, there can be no necessity for concealing the weapon, and if the threatened violence will allow of it, the individual may be arrested and constrained to find sureties to keep the peace, or committed to jail. The charge asked for, was then upon an abstract point of law.
In the case at bar, the defendant needed no arms for his protection, his official authority furnished him an ample shield. In this country a sheriff possesses all the powers, which pertained to his office at common law; except so far as they may have been divested by statute, or such as are incompatible with the nature of our institutions. He is the keeper of the peace within the county. He may apprehend, and commit to prison, all who break the peace, or attempt to break it; and may cause such persons to be bound in a recognizance to keep the peace. He may, and is bound ex officio, to pursue and take all traitors, murderers, felons, and rioters; he also hath the custody and safekeeping of the county jail; he is to defend the same against rioters, and for this purpose, as well as for taking rioters and others breaking the peace, he may call to his aid the posse comitatus, or power of the county, and the citizens are bound to obey his summons, upon pain of fine and imprisonment. (1 Bla. Com. 343;, Watson's Shff. 2.)
We will not undertake to say, that if in any case, it should appear to be indispensable to the right of defence that arms should be carried concealed about the person, the act "to suppress the evil practice of carrying weapons secretly," should be so construed as to operate a prohibition in such case. But in the present case, no such necessity seems to have existed; and we cannot well conceive of its existence under any supposable circumstances.
We have only to add, that the judgment of the circuit court of Montgomery, is affirmed.
(emphasis added) State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612 (1840) [Note: Reid was cited in Heller, btw.]Link to source: Source webpage So now, regardless of the right to bear arms for defense being "excepted out of the general powers of government" by our state's Constitution, our Legislature takes it upon itself to reserve the subject matter of handguns to itself: Code of Alabama 1975 Section 11-45-1.1 Subject matter of handguns reserved to State Legislature; power of municipality to adopt certain ordinances; concurrent jurisdiction of municipal courts with district courts.
No incorporated municipality shall have the power to enact any ordinance, rule, or regulation which shall tax, restrict, prevent, or in any way affect the possession or ownership of handguns by the citizens of this state. The entire subject matter of handguns is reserved to the State Legislature. This section shall not be construed to limit or restrict the power of a municipality to adopt ordinances which make the violation of a state handgun law a violation of a municipal ordinance to the same extent as other state law violations, or to limit or restrict the power of a municipal court to exercise concurrent jurisdiction with the district court over violations of state handgun laws which may be prosecuted as breaches of a municipal ordinance.
(Acts 1982, No. 82-442, p. 694, §1; Acts 1994, No. 94-635, p. 1195, §1.) The state now allows "the evil practice of carrying weapons secretly" if your county's sheriff decides to allow you buy a license. It may be a practice that was said to be "conducive of violence and bloodshed", but ask a cop how he feels about you carrying your pistol openly instead of concealed for defense these days. Many of them will arrest you on trumped up charges even though the high court of the state said that cops are the ones who don't need guns because the people have them. It's a big mess, ain't it?? All it would take to straighten this whole mess out is for our government officials to honor their oaths to support our Constitutions.
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