Instead of killing does, why not plant more feed?

Well then that proves my point even more. Point is they're not hunting even remotely normal or average places, which is totally fine. But they're basing state policy on their large, contiguous, frequently burned, high input tracts of deer land. That's not where most folks hunt.

A guy at work had a lease in Clarke County up the road from me this year. He talked to his neighbors week after season, they told him they killed 17 spikes. Didn't shoot any does....

Yeah, I agree with you there….just not on the “need” to shoot them part. That term gets used all the time and I don't think we're actually stating the truth in the way its said. They "could" shoot some if they wanted to but not "need" to shoot.

I actually think it would be better to go back to more conservative doe days across the board like we used to have over chopping everybody up into a bunch of units like many want to do…trying to micromanage every county or whatever the case may be. Even within Bullock Co itself….there’s still a large difference in populations as you move from property to property and one part of the county to the other. I’m not talking about making super restrictive but stay on the side of playing conservative and anyone who wants to do other can go through a DMAP….Heck I imagine many of the folks on these overrun properties don’t care anyways. They’re not there paying those type prices to whack and stack does.

Thats nuts

No its probably a joke. The neighbor went back and said, "lemme tell ya'll what I told this goober down the road".

I don't figure too many are gonna agree with this but I think that actually far better than if it were the other way around and they shot 17 does and no spikes....Most of those young spikes wouldn't have made it to see 2-3 years old anyways.....high mortality.....The does on the other hand stand a good chance of getting older and the more does you have the more buck producers there are to replace those 17 spikes.

I think the argument can be summed up like this:

1. DCNR: The deer herd is overpopulated and therefore doesn't have enough quality food - Hunter response: This is only true in about 10% or less of the state. Deer are highly adaptable creatures with diverse diets.

2. DCNR: Bucks will grow significantly larger antlers if they have access to the food a dead doe would have eaten - Hunter response: This is likely a complete fallacy, but even if true only applies to 10% of the state

3. DCNR: If we allow doe killing (and limit buck killing), more people will kill does to fill the freezer instead of immature bucks, resulting in an older age class of bucks - Hunter response: There may actually be some truth to this, but my odds of killing a 130+ buck are still greater if I see 5 deer per hunt than if I see 5 deer in a season. Lots of bucks being born each year gives me better odds of seeing a 4 yr old than very few bucks born and hoping someone else doesn't shoot it until it gets to age four.

4. DCNR: A herd with equal numbers of bucks to does results in a more concentrated, more active rut - Hunter response: This also may be true, but who cares if the rut is active and concentrated if I still hardly see any deer during it because they don't exist?

5. DCNR: Humans are the only significant predator of deer and therefore their population inevitably becomes out of control if we don't kill equal numbers of bucks and does as a natural predator would have. - Hunter response: This theory is dead wrong. We were told coyote numbers were low and that they rarely prey on deer. Now we know the exact opposite but DCNR isn't spreading the word about the coyote problem nearly as fast as they advocated for the doe killing.

6. DCNR: We never forced anyone to kill does. We think each individual landowner should determine what their herd needs. - Hunter response: I hunt on 100 acres. I don't have any control of the deer herd in the 2 square miles around me. It is DCNR's job to manage the herd. That is why you exist. If I can manage the herd on my own land, why do I need DCNR?

My take: DCNR needs to have some humility, admit where they were wrong, and begin reversing the doe killing laws across most of the state. Most people will buy in to that logic. But the current stance of "Oh we weren't wrong, we just need to focus on habitat improvement in areas of low population" is BS that any average Joe knows is BS.

Doe days equals $$$$. Therefore Chucks on board. That simple. 🤷🏿‍♂️🤣

I normally try to take 3 or 4 myself a yr. Have 3 growing boys

If it was around Mt. Zion rd in Grove Hill I'd believe it.

He said they shot multiple times every weekend he was up there.

Maybe it’s a fluke but I’ve had two leases one being 160 acres and another being 300 and both were either dog clubs or shot up from previous hunters.The first couple of years you would sit and see hardly nothing all year. I started offering the best food plots I could better habitat and feeding and over a few years you would see deer all over both pieces. I’m actually to the point I’m gonna shoot some does because I’ve gotten to the point I’m seeing bigger groups of does and not as many yearlings. On both of these properties they have went from nothing to a very good piece of land with a lot of deer, bucks and does. I don’t understand how over time you can’t grow or hold deer on a smaller piece of property.

I bought in years ago to doe killing and went on a jihad on a couple of my hunting places. All it did is make the does just as scarce as the bucks there. It took several years of backing off to recover.

That, or they were just running it down to kill it. It wasn't limping, it was healthy. But, it was worn out. I'd be surprised if they didn't kill it.

I believe it……Take this into consideration though….the deer may have looked physically ok but may have been suffering from some other kind of impairment like being sick and weak. I had a case just like this on my place a few years ago. I had a young buck that I kept getting pics of just standing in front of the camera in a way that made you think something was wrong with it. It just didn’t look normal…it looked weak. This went on for 4 or 5 days before one morning I walked out and found him dead in the back of the field. It was 40-50 yard long bread crumb trail of white hair that led me to where he had been taken down. I believe the coyotes are gonna target any deer that’s slowed down and impaired for whatever reason….there’s a number of possibilities.

I went to Mobile in 1988 to listen to Al Brothers. In 1989 I joined a club that was in the DMAP program, and we got 15 doe tags for 3000 acres. They were passed out sparing and not all used. Two does a day started about the same time we lost all of our ag land to long leaf pines. High population much less food. Weights went down on bucks and does. We were a QDM club by 1996. We killed 30 or more does a year for too long. We adv. 12 bucks a year with 14 members. Weight and antler restrictions saved most of our 2 year old bucks and some 3 year old's. We had some great years until the hurricanes in 04 and 05 took 1000 acres of our best habitat. It took 2 years for the browse to come back after the poison and the fire killed every living thing. I watched a good deer and turkey population disappear in a short time. When the browse came back ,the deer came back and we killed some of our best bucks in the clear cuts. The turkey population hasn't come back yet and won't. It ain't easy for a turkey to make a living in planted pines. When the pines shaded out the browse in about 5 years , we were still killing does but only 15 or so , but we were down to 1800 acres and 14 members. As hunters we had to reinvent ourselves a few times as the land changed. We went from young men hunting from climbers to old men hunting from shooting houses. By 06 we had 30 acres in food plots with 5 kinds of clover and elbon rye. We had 5 buck only plots that always had does and young bucks feeding in the daylight. We had 20 doe plots. When 2 does were killed on a plot ,it became buck only. Those old does learn fast and become nocturnal. I was the land manager and kept all the records, it was damn hard to convince some folks that you just can't keep on killing all the baby makers. I have always been a buck hunter and I like all that live bait out there when I am hunting. I got out of the lease in 2015, but I am thankful that I got to hunt it before it was raped by the new owners and destroyed by mother nature. My son and I still own 70 acres inside the club that we manage, so I am still around.I guess my point to all this is that IMO habitat loss contributed more to our poor hunting at times than our lack of trigger control.

If you have too many does you need to figure out who is killing all the bucks. Because someone is shooting them. And they are not shooting the does.

100% fact.

There is no such thing as too many does..... there is only a lack of bucks because someone is blasting everything they see.

Your plan is to follow suit and start blasting everything you see too?

Or maybe your plan is to take up golf because your can't do anything about your jackass spike blasting neighbor?

The does are not the problem they are the symptom.

0% Opinion.

100% UNDENIABLE FACT.

"no such thing as too many does"......what planet did that bit of non-knowledge come from?????

I have been on and hunted several properties in Alabama that had too many does. A browse line equates into too many deer on that property. Too many does and bucks. Most of those properties had very limited doe shooting for many years, some had restricted buck harvests, some unlimited. The herd needed to be restructured away from having way more does than bucks, like 5,6,7, does per buck. But browse lines mean you have too many deer, easiest way is to stop killing bucks and remove some of the "too many" does.

100% fact? Bucks only disappear b/c they're getting shot? Interesting, where did you get this 100% fact data from?