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Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: MorningAir] #3040377
02/12/20 08:56 PM
02/12/20 08:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by MorningAir
I've been critical and vocal of my disgust of our DCNR because of the doe days. I've been critical of Chuck as well 50% of his job is selling hunting in Alabama, and the other 50% is making hunters happy.

The job is neither of those.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3040544
02/12/20 10:20 PM
02/12/20 10:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,241
somewhere around 112.
S
slippinlipjr Offline
I make Calds fer a livin
slippinlipjr  Offline
I make Calds fer a livin
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,241
somewhere around 112.
I knew it was you all along Alan but I wasn't going to call your name out. It might as well be you up there at the helm. You wouldn't have a red hair left on your head though. Thank you for your commitment all these years.


Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+Z

thesharkguard.com



Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3040609
02/12/20 11:08 PM
02/12/20 11:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,868
Mobile, AL
A
alhawk Offline
14 point
alhawk  Offline
14 point
A
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,868
Mobile, AL
On a positive note, the Saltwater guys are doing some good work. If you have Facebook, take a look at the
Alabama Marine Resources Division page. They collected live flounder from some of our ACFA tournaments(and others) this year and started a breeding program. They are posting the growth of these fish hatched in the tank. It is really cool to see reproduction from fish you caught and donated.

They have a very successful redfish program and have started doing this with speckled trout. Flounder and Redfish are much easier to keep alive during transportation. I encourage anyone to donate when the agency staff is around to collect the fish.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3040655
02/13/20 12:14 AM
02/13/20 12:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by sgtred
Former employee just retired after 30 years, would like to know what hunters think about the current direction of the Dept,and what changes to the laws and how the GWs operate. What kind of grade would you give from 1 to 10.

My apologies for getting distracted. Obviously my opinion of Chuck is no secret. But regarding the original question, I think the direction of the Dept got sidetracked years ago, like 20+ years ago, well before most of the current administration. That's when they seemed to lose focus on the "conservation and natural resources" opting instead to mitigate the political implications. Money is always a driver, there's no way around it. But balancing revenue and politics can leave the wildlife out in the cold, so to speak. I do understand the difference between laws and regulations, as well as the limitations of each one. Some of the things folks want from the DCNR just isn't within their authority. Some of things our lawmakers want are not practical or beneficial to the resources. That alone is a real balancing act. I just happen to believe there are ways to increase revenue without defrauding your lifetime license holders or breaking your commitment to almost every "Consumer Group" in the state. (BTW, I really hate that term "consumer group". I believe that's an original Corky Pugh cliche).
For example, I don't believe license sales reflects the actual number of hunters, and I think the gap is really large. I believe the cheap fines and lack of enforcement are responsible for a substantial revenue shortfall. That's not an opinion about game wardens. I think the majority of them do a great job, but they are spread too thin not authorized enough overtime. Changing fines would require changing the law, but adding GWs and allowing them work whenever they deem necessary could be done with a handshake.
I disagree with moving season dates and changing bag limits purely for political gain, ignoring any available input from professional biologists in the field. Then there's the ever popular game check. I'm not opposed to using it, and have complied faithfully since it was implemented. The problem I have is that it offers numerous ways to cheat and yet we keep hearing that the majority of hunters aren't in compliance and the "data" is useless. Well, first of all, the data isn't very useful anyway... (sex, or number of points, and location). Then place the blame on hunters for not following the rules.
I will say that I'm very proud of the buck limit and I then it's already paying off in many areas. I'm also pleased with the app, and that I can now carry my license and record right on my phone.
I could go on and on but it boils down to, in my opinion, the Dept as a whole gets a 👎
But most of the GWs and other field personnel get a 👍




.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: centralala] #3040666
02/13/20 05:28 AM
02/13/20 05:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211
North Alabama
W
Wiley Coyote Offline
Freak of Nature
Wiley Coyote  Offline
Freak of Nature
W
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211
North Alabama
Originally Posted by centralala

The February deer season extension in North zone has been highly discussed topic. Some of the biologist at least, maybe all, we're against this move. The one I spoke with was adamant against it. Against it with biology to back it up. But the DCNR led by Sykes who is a biologist chose to go against biology. Do we need someone over the States resources who will go against biology in decision making.


NOBODY will ever convince me that Will Ainsworth isn't solely responsible for the season extension in north Alabama. He was losing a LOT of money to high fence operations in south Alabama when their season was longer than ours. Biologically, the extension is not needed up here. Follow the money.


I firmly believe that a double gallows should be constructed on the East Lawn of The White House. Politicians who willfully and shamelessly violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America should be swiftly tried and, upon conviction, publicly hanged at sunup the day after conviction. If multiple convicts are to be hanged they can choose with whom to share the gallows or names shall be drawn from the hangman's hat to be hanged 2 at a time.




NRA Life Member
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: Wiley Coyote] #3040672
02/13/20 06:03 AM
02/13/20 06:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,459
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,459
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by Wiley Coyote
Originally Posted by centralala

The February deer season extension in North zone has been highly discussed topic. Some of the biologist at least, maybe all, we're against this move. The one I spoke with was adamant against it. Against it with biology to back it up. But the DCNR led by Sykes who is a biologist chose to go against biology. Do we need someone over the States resources who will go against biology in decision making.


NOBODY will ever convince me that Will Ainsworth isn't solely responsible for the season extension in north Alabama. He was losing a LOT of money to high fence operations in south Alabama when their season was longer than ours. Biologically, the extension is not needed up here. Follow the money.


High fence owners and ALFA drive most of the major decisions dealing with deer. High fence shouldn't even be a factor, let them hunt year around , let them bait , they are not wild animals . None of us on the outside give a damn about them , other than they shouldn't drive laws and regs for us, why should they give a damn about us.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: Out back] #3040767
02/13/20 08:31 AM
02/13/20 08:31 AM

S
sgtred OP
Unregistered
sgtred OP
Unregistered
S


Originally Posted by Out back
Originally Posted by sgtred
Former employee just retired after 30 years, would like to know what hunters think about the current direction of the Dept,and what changes to the laws and how the GWs operate. What kind of grade would you give from 1 to 10.

My apologies for getting distracted. Obviously my opinion of Chuck is no secret. But regarding the original question, I think the direction of the Dept got sidetracked years ago, like 20+ years ago, well before most of the current administration. That's when they seemed to lose focus on the "conservation and natural resources" opting instead to mitigate the political implications. Money is always a driver, there's no way around it. But balancing revenue and politics can leave the wildlife out in the cold, so to speak. I do understand the difference between laws and regulations, as well as the limitations of each one. Some of the things folks want from the DCNR just isn't within their authority. Some of things our lawmakers want are not practical or beneficial to the resources. That alone is a real balancing act. I just happen to believe there are ways to increase revenue without defrauding your lifetime license holders or breaking your commitment to almost every "Consumer Group" in the state. (BTW, I really hate that term "consumer group". I believe that's an original Corky Pugh cliche).
For example, I don't believe license sales reflects the actual number of hunters, and I think the gap is really large. I believe the cheap fines and lack of enforcement are responsible for a substantial revenue shortfall. That's not an opinion about game wardens. I think the majority of them do a great job, but they are spread too thin not authorized enough overtime. Changing fines would require changing the law, but adding GWs and allowing them work whenever they deem necessary could be done with a handshake.
I disagree with moving season dates and changing bag limits purely for political gain, ignoring any available input from professional biologists in the field. Then there's the ever popular game check. I'm not opposed to using it, and have complied faithfully since it was implemented. The problem I have is that it offers numerous ways to cheat and yet we keep hearing that the majority of hunters aren't in compliance and the "data" is useless. Well, first of all, the data isn't very useful anyway... (sex, or number of points, and location). Then place the blame on hunters for not following the rules.
I will say that I'm very proud of the buck limit and I then it's already paying off in many areas. I'm also pleased with the app, and that I can now carry my license and record right on my phone.
I could go on and on but it boils down to, in my opinion, the Dept as a whole gets a 👎
But most of the GWs and other field personnel get a 👍




.

Some good points here. Money is the dilemma, 30 years ago when I went to work, I attended a statewide meeting where trends were identified,that indicated license sales were declining and would continue to decline. The initial response was to develop outreach that would maintain it or increase hunting interest. In essence create hunters. That really has not come to fruition. Under Corky they were able to get legislation passed that automatically increased the price of license to keep up with inflation. Prior to that the Dept had to go to legislature to ask for license increases which was a difficult task and rarely worked. So money has in alot of ways has become the driving force, the constant search and worry about enough money to do things that the leadership in the Dept feels like needs doing with hunting and license sales on the decline generally leading into the future. There are some that believe that the legislation that allowed for the license prices to increase with inflation hasn't done the job and was a mistake because you can never go back to legislature for increases to offset declining license sales in the future. Far as the Wardens, they already work when they deem necessary, they are not assigned any shift, they work the best hours of the day, which means a lot of days begun at daylight, take a break,back at it in the afternoon, then again at night if your doing it right. That means working every weekend even those you are given off if you are dedicated, which is one long weekend every six weeks. Fines will never,even with an increase pay much more than the gas bill. The GWs catch a hell of alot of folks violating, always have always will. I know some don't believe that based on what they see and hear about in their areas. But trust me,you can't keep your job or get a raise if you ain't catching folks. Leadership has always demanded that of the officers and if you laid down, you weren't going to get a raise and if you continued to lay down, you would find yourself out of a job.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3040817
02/13/20 09:25 AM
02/13/20 09:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
You touched on a HUGE mistake by the DCNR. Not sure how long you have been here but there was an old dude years ago before named 49'er. He posted for one season the citations written. It named the GW and who received the citation and the violation. ALL IS PUBLIC RECORD! The DCNR should post this every year. Show us what the GWs are doing. Might not get many people's attention but getting your name on that list just might, MIGHT, deter violations. Also, hunting clubs could use the list to screen future members.

As far as the citations being written now, I just might be a little closer to what's going on but I know their is A LOT of citations written. But no one knows.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: centralala] #3040876
02/13/20 10:26 AM
02/13/20 10:26 AM

S
sgtred OP
Unregistered
sgtred OP
Unregistered
S


Originally Posted by centralala
You touched on a HUGE mistake by the DCNR. Not sure how long you have been here but there was an old dude years ago before named 49'er. He posted for one season the citations written. It named the GW and who received the citation and the violation. ALL IS PUBLIC RECORD! The DCNR should post this every year. Show us what the GWs are doing. Might not get many people's attention but getting your name on that list just might, MIGHT, deter violations. Also, hunting clubs could use the list to screen future members.

As far as the citations being written now, I just might be a little closer to what's going on but I know their is A LOT of citations written. But no one knows.

I remember 49er. I remember when he did that. I trained that officer whose cases he posted.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041161
02/13/20 03:01 PM
02/13/20 03:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
ikillbux Offline
ishootatbux
ikillbux  Offline
ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
The reason I cannot take you guys seriously is because you actually say stuff like "Alfa drives deer hunting rules". Oh my everloving Lord, you cannot be serious. Please God, turn your feed store hat around forward and and stop making the rest of us hunters look like low functioning inbreds. I bet you think clumped deer poop is "buck" turds. And folks wonder why Sykes has a condescending opinion about Alabama hunters.

You cannot really say tinfoil buffoonish crap like that, then try to make an intelligent accusation about the DCNR....stop it, just stop it. How many times must I tell you that deer don't even blip the radar, they are a bazillion items down the list of claims cost--and that's ALL you need to know. Completely irrelevant.
Now if you think the Alabama Farmers Federation has something to do with it, that could be. I cannot imagine what or why, but I don't know their operations. Alfa is not the AFF, not in the sense you are implying. I promise you, insurance companies are not concerning themselves with deer hunting, and even if they were, of ALL companies Alfa wouldn't be (good Lord, half the home office executive staff are staunch hunters. You know, the ones you're saying want all the deer gone).


We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041170
02/13/20 03:08 PM
02/13/20 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by sgtred
Originally Posted by centralala
You touched on a HUGE mistake by the DCNR. Not sure how long you have been here but there was an old dude years ago before named 49'er. He posted for one season the citations written. It named the GW and who received the citation and the violation. ALL IS PUBLIC RECORD! The DCNR should post this every year. Show us what the GWs are doing. Might not get many people's attention but getting your name on that list just might, MIGHT, deter violations. Also, hunting clubs could use the list to screen future members.

As far as the citations being written now, I just might be a little closer to what's going on but I know their is A LOT of citations written. But no one knows.

I remember 49er. I remember when he did that. I trained that officer whose cases he posted.


We must be talking about 2 different things. The one I saw listed everyone that had written a citation. GW, biologist, and even one biologist aide. There were some that received citations that I knew and if it weren't for that posting, I would have never known.

Remember, I am pro GW as long as they are doing there jobs. At this point, I am satisfied with their efforts. Their efforts I realize is a problem with listing the citations written. If a GW is chosen to investigate a poaching ring, go undercover, or whatever else that requires the majority of his time, he's going to write less citations while he may very well be working his A$$ off. The public sees the fewer citations as laziness. Double edged sword.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041218
02/13/20 03:50 PM
02/13/20 03:50 PM

S
sgtred OP
Unregistered
sgtred OP
Unregistered
S


The one I saw was reposted from wherever 49er is now, Perry County Officer was one of the officers, that's the one trained amongst many more. These thing don't tell the whole story. Officers make circumstantial cases, were they have to go back and get warrants then serve, those are not listed in the system that 49er is accessing.there are times that details are organized and all the cases are split up. The Mastermind is responsible,but the credit he or she is due wouldn't be reflected in that kind of reporting, All counties and regions are somewhat different,don't produce the same results. As far as the hunting Public being made aware of how many citations are being written, I don't see anything wrong with that,but like any statistic it can be misleading to an extent. Also an arrest is not a conviction. That info was arrests, Certainly a few of the ones arrested were eventually found not guilty. GWs do a real good job as a whole, very low on the not guilty part I only had about 4 or 5 my whole career out of thousands of cases. That's pretty normal for career my length. Being a GW is not like being a Trooper, cases just don't come to you,you have to get out find them, everything is misdemeanor below, you have catch the folks in the act. For every 100 cases made probably only 10 to 15 are the result of complaints or information from the public. I know that is hard to believe, but it is true. Every brand new officer I trained, after two weeks of going hard,walking,sneaking observing,staying up late, checking as many hunters could be found, I would ask them,this ain't nothing like you imagined when you and your buddies were sitting around the fire at hunting camp talking about how easy and how many tickets you would write if you were the GW. Not a one of them ever told me, that what they thought is what it turned out to be.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041268
02/13/20 04:55 PM
02/13/20 04:55 PM

S
sgtred OP
Unregistered
sgtred OP
Unregistered
S


I am really out this time,enjoyed it, very informative ,Thanks

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ikillbux] #3041287
02/13/20 05:16 PM
02/13/20 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by ikillbux
The reason I cannot take you guys seriously is because you actually say stuff like "Alfa drives deer hunting rules". Oh my everloving Lord, you cannot be serious. Please God, turn your feed store hat around forward and and stop making the rest of us hunters look like low functioning inbreds. I bet you think clumped deer poop is "buck" turds. And folks wonder why Sykes has a condescending opinion about Alabama hunters.

You cannot really say tinfoil buffoonish crap like that, then try to make an intelligent accusation about the DCNR....stop it, just stop it. How many times must I tell you that deer don't even blip the radar, they are a bazillion items down the list of claims cost--and that's ALL you need to know. Completely irrelevant.
Now if you think the Alabama Farmers Federation has something to do with it, that could be. I cannot imagine what or why, but I don't know their operations. Alfa is not the AFF, not in the sense you are implying. I promise you, insurance companies are not concerning themselves with deer hunting, and even if they were, of ALL companies Alfa wouldn't be (good Lord, half the home office executive staff are staunch hunters. You know, the ones you're saying want all the deer gone).

Fact is, we don't give a schit about chuckies opinions. He is a condescending arrogant ass (much like you) and we do not give a damn about his feelings.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ikillbux] #3041301
02/13/20 05:29 PM
02/13/20 05:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52,225
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
James Offline
Freak of Nature
James  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52,225
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
Originally Posted by ikillbux
The reason I cannot take you guys seriously is because you actually say stuff like "Alfa drives deer hunting rules". Oh my everloving Lord, you cannot be serious. Please God, turn your feed store hat around forward and and stop making the rest of us hunters look like low functioning inbreds. I bet you think clumped deer poop is "buck" turds. And folks wonder why Sykes has a condescending opinion about Alabama hunters.

You cannot really say tinfoil buffoonish crap like that, then try to make an intelligent accusation about the DCNR....stop it, just stop it. How many times must I tell you that deer don't even blip the radar, they are a bazillion items down the list of claims cost--and that's ALL you need to know. Completely irrelevant.
Now if you think the Alabama Farmers Federation has something to do with it, that could be. I cannot imagine what or why, but I don't know their operations. Alfa is not the AFF, not in the sense you are implying. I promise you, insurance companies are not concerning themselves with deer hunting, and even if they were, of ALL companies Alfa wouldn't be (good Lord, half the home office executive staff are staunch hunters. You know, the ones you're saying want all the deer gone).


Lmao we gonna start this BULLCHIT again? Guess i need (i really don't have the time or give 2 chits) to go digging up old posts again about this chit, cause last time you dissapeared for a while 🤣


How many people am i willing to sacrifice for freedom?
Everyone. All of them...

Do not regret growing older, it's a privilege denied to many!

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041328
02/13/20 06:15 PM
02/13/20 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,872
Spanish Fort
teamduckdown Offline
10 point
teamduckdown  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,872
Spanish Fort
Like most of corporate run America.

We got some really great Indians and some really shitty chiefs.


Turkeys be damned.
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041340
02/13/20 06:33 PM
02/13/20 06:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
SW Alabama
A
ALFisher Offline
4 point
ALFisher  Offline
4 point
A
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
SW Alabama
I admit I haven't read every page of this thread, and I admit that I am assuming the original poster actually was a DCNR employee as represented, not someone just trying to stir the pot.

that said, asking an internet forum what they think of the State DCNR is not going to get you any kind of valid results. You need to have a lot more information from a more diverse group than you have here.

For me personally, however, and since you asked, I am wholly disgusted with the amount of public land DCNR has allowed to drop out of the WMA system without replacing it. SOAs don't get it. How do they expect people to get into hunting, when there is no where for the public to hunt for free like you used to be able to? this is particularly true in SW Alabama. I've even asked what DCNR is doing to replace it, and gotten very few answers. It's really, really disappointing.

Further, I'm pretty disappointed with the level of enforcement funded. This is actually not a criticism of individual GWs. It's past time for Alabama to hire more GWs, in fact. Where I am, enforcement is virtually nonexistent. You have one or two GWs covering multiple counties. It's just impossible for them to do that.

Otherwise, I would give our DCNR good marks. They generally listen to what people want, and try to do what they can with the limited scientific information they have (again, lack of funding). This is true on the hunting and fishing side. I've interacted with the fishing guys, and they also do a good job.

If I could do one thing in Alabama for DCNR, I would double the number of enforcement officers - both on land, and on our waters.

Last edited by ALFisher; 02/13/20 06:34 PM.
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041348
02/13/20 06:41 PM
02/13/20 06:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,877
in the corner
S
Stob Offline
14 point
Stob  Offline
14 point
S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,877
in the corner
We do have a lack of Public Lands available. And I'm not real fond of the whole WMA check in every morning crap either.
I think I got spoiled living near the Talladega, NF for a loooong time.

Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041380
02/13/20 07:06 PM
02/13/20 07:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 8,938
Between the coosa and cahaba
!
!shiloh! Offline
14 point
!shiloh!  Offline
14 point
!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 8,938
Between the coosa and cahaba
Barbour is shrinking. Kinterbrish, scotch, coosa (basically) gone. Really wish we could add to the public lands/wma's.


ggg
Re: DCNR Wildlife and Freshwater fisheries. [Re: ] #3041476
02/13/20 08:21 PM
02/13/20 08:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,956
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,956
Round ‘bout there

The WMAs are on leases. Depending on the agreement with the state, if they get a better financial deal, decide to cut the timber, want to get out of the WMA for themselves or whatever else, that's their decision.

Sucks but that's how it is.

Forever Wild is the best option at this time for actually purchasing lands and not just leasing.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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