I am sure we all watch hunting shows and have also personally witnessed several shots at deer over the years with our bows.

But most recently, I have been playing back arrow shots from all the shows I have been watching. I have had deer duck an arrow or jump one in the past, but when you are the one hunting and everything is in real time, you probably miss a lot. I have been amazed at the difference in the deers position from the time the arrow is released to the time of impact. Almost every single deer has dropped at least 6" from it relaxed stance to the split second before the arrow hits. It makes me think that maybe I should aim 5" lower than what I normally do. If you haven't watched the flight of the arrow in slow motion, do it, and watch the deer's reaction before impact, an eye opener for sure. Some would totally dodge the arrow, and result in a clean miss, even though the hunter hit right where he was aiming.

Ms. Muzzie used to complain about me watching all these shows, now she is really freaking out because I play them back in slow motion.

Its crazy that some people will argue with you claiming that it is impossible for a deer to duck quicker than the force of gravity (which is like 1.5" at 30 yards).
What I have always wondered if it was the sound of the arrow that makes them turn inside out. A lot of times an odd sound will make a deer look up to pinpoint the sound. I have never had a deer look at me right after releasing an arrow after hearing the "thud" of my bow.

"Its crazy that some people will argue with you claiming that it is impossible for a deer to duck quicker than the force of gravity"

Maybe,... but its much, MUCH crazier to insist that it IS possible.

Using your example, 30 yards/90 feet is ~1/3 of a second of flight for an arrow launched at 270 fps. Gravity pulls an object downward 32 feet in the very first second it falls. Where did your 1 1/2 inches for a 30 yard shot come from?

So, everybody that knows (even if only inherently) the "gravity constant" of "32 ft/sec squared" will rightly disagree with you until you can show how a deer grabs onto the ground with their hooves to yank themselves downward.

It IS gravity that makes deer duck when they tuck to run.

There also are some bows that make no more noise than an acorn plopping in the sand. (Unalerted deer don't duck when they hear an acorn hitting the ground.) These bows have the string contacting only a very small part of the bow, and they shoot a heavy arrow.

This is not an arguement, it is a fact. I have personally watched every shot from my DVR, playing them back one frame at a time and almost every deer instinctively flexes and drops when the arrow is less than 5' from impact. If you haven't watched it for yourself, do so, you will be shocked.

I am not sure if they see the arrows flight, or hear it whistling at the last second, but you can see their muscles tighten and their body drop.

I read somewhere that the force of gravity would allow a deer to drop 1.5"-2" in the time it takes an arrow traveling 300fps to go 30 yards. Making it impossible for a deer to drop below the path of a well placed arrow.

Issac Newton can tell me its an impossible feat, I will always believe otherwise.

Whoever wrote that is full of crap.

My own experience has taught me that lesson too.
I'll adjust my sight to hit progressively lower as the range increases, and limit my effective range to <40 yards.

Most of my misses over the years have been high misses.

I have an old video with Chuck Adams in it. He had a doe at 20 yards "jump the string" and they did the math, and he would have had to be shooting 720fps to hit the vitals. As far as aiming low, it all depends on the deer's actions before the shot. If its alert or has spotted me or "just knows something isn't right" then I hold low...like armpit low, I can't make myself hold out of the vitals. If its not alert I still hold in the armpit. My

I have never understood this notion of a deers ability to duck and arrow being limited by the speed of gravity. If a deer just folded their legs and let gravity pull them down then yes I guess it would be. But many simply keep their front feet under them and flex their body downwards. And you or a deer can certain flex your muscles downward faster than the speed of gravity. For example you can hold a ball out at arms length, drop it and then easily move your arm downward fast enough to catch it before it hits the floor.

Believe me anyone who thinks a deer can't duck more than 1 1/2 to 2 inches at 30 yards never took a shoot at one of those hard hunted mature does over on the Corp of Engineer land in Millers Ferry. LOL! They could make a bullet hit 2 inches high.

Gravity is only constant in a vaccum!!

Drop a feather and a marble and tell me they fall at the same rate.

I too have slowed videos down and LOVE the video makers that do it for you. Definitely an eye opener.

This is also why I dont prescribe to the theory that you must stop the deer completely before shooting. Think about it...when they hear something while walking more often than not they will stop to try to find where it came from.

The whitetail deer is an amazing animal.

Neither do I! Trying to sling an arrow at an alarmed animal ain't good sense.

I'd much rather release while the deer is walking through a shooting lane than to stop him/her in the lane in an alerted state of mind.

Certainly you don't think or give credit to the deer for actually or purposefully ducking an arrow in flight, right?

I subscribe to the thought that the deer hears both the sound of the bow "and" the arrow whizzing through the air (the speed of sound is much faster than 300 fps!) and as with any unnatural sound, the deer is simply "loading" its legs to spring the heck out of the area and haul butt to safety.

If the deer's legs were cemented into the ground, the deer could drop much faster but I can't see any leverage the deer would have in "pulling" its body down so therefore, I don't think a deer can drop faster than gravity would allow.

If a deer's on alert, I do (or at least I try to remember to) aim a little lower as I expect the deer to drop (or, load its legs to run) at the sound of my bow and arrow in flight.

First, I am NOT saying that I don't think deer can duck three feet in a third of a second.That ain't my claim. I have believed this, based on personal experience, since I was missing 'em with a Bear 6-wheeler before VCRs were even invented.

"Gravity is only constant in a vacuum!!" You are EXACTLY right! So... since a deer can't clutch the ground to yank himself down, (and since there is NO other physical mechanism for pulling the deer's body downward), the friction of the air must make it fall even slower than at the gravity constant.

Also, when you catch a ball you just dropped, only your arm moved by your muscle reaction because your arm is anchored by the inertia of your body mass. But jerk your legs up faster than gravity can drop them, removing that inertia, and you'll fall, not pull yourself down with your toes clutching at the grass. Just like a deer. He'll react quicker than you and start his fall quicker, but he won't fall faster than you.

Y'all that really think so, please describe the physics of how the deer pulls himself down. Don't just say it surely (magically?) happens. I'm willing to learn something new, even if it would totally counter everything I know about physics.

Buz, I agree with you and the physics described. You're 100% right!!

Also, when shifting gears from physics to psychology, I don't for one min believe that a deer purposefully or consciously attempts to "duck" an arrow headed his/her way. It's just a natural reaction to an unnatural sound and the deer "loads" his/her legs to catapult the heck out of there! The loading of its legs causes the deer's body to drop.

If gravity says that a deer can only move a couple of inches in .3 seconds than I have to dissagree because I have seen them drop +12".

Tomorrow when I am shooting my bow I will have my buddy drop something from 12" off the ground and see if it hits about the same time as my arrow.

I wish Mythbusters would do this in one of their episodes.

We need to email them this theory. I think thats how they get their ideas. I'd love to see it.

I too don't believe that a deer is actually "ducking" the arrow either. I believe that it is just the result of him getting ready to haul some a$$

For those of you that think gravity plays a roll in deer ducking at the shot I have a question:

When someone yells "heads up" do you let gravity pull you down and away or do you use your muscles to do that for you?

Don't know about gravity, but I've missed enough times that I learned to shoot low and keep it inside 40 yards.

Y'all are funny...from deer hunting to physics in a vacuum, the rate of an unladen deer dropped from an European swallow..... This is more about physiology and reaction time (Sight, hearing, Muscles, tendons, bones) No matter what you believe - the deer's body will drop significantly if it is preparing to get the heck out of Dodge.
- riddle me this batman - how do astronauts crouch in space?

Excellent example!

Me too! I did that on one Illinois buck, aimed at the hairline on his belly because he was alarmed. He did not move an inch @ 15 yards. I watched the arrow hit the mark and the white hair fall. Those northern deer are not near as skitish as 'Bama deer!

"Excellent example!" Really?! Well, ok. It is, sorta.

But when ducking, unless you grip the ground with your toesnails and yank yourself downward using the inertia of the earth as a base to work from... your muscles only jerk your legs up and you're head down, and the inertia of your main mass (your body) will react only to having nothing to hold it up.

If it ain't gravity doing the ducking for ya, why don't you just "duck up" and away when a snake is suddenly under you? How come you hop around like that first on one leg, then the other as you high-step outa there?

Unless you can come up with a "why" that is based on the laws of physics, please don't let the folks at Mythbusters think that folks down in AL don't know about gravity.

It would make exactly as much sense to ask them to demonstrate why your arrow doesn't shoot you and your bow backwards.

Well you see, the deer relaxes the front legs which immediately transforms the body's fulcrum to the hind legs thereby increasing the force and leverage of the downward spiral while applying neuro-musculars sensors to the stomach muscles. Also the lower front legs inertia appeases the front shoulder muscles to exponentially contract and pull the forward body even further towards the ground. Very clever Watson.

I just know they duck.

And they DO dig their toenails into the ground - with a resultant force vector that accelerates their backbone towards the geo-center faster than the mere gravitational force of the spheroidal planet alone....

My shooting partner and I used to have a target about 20 yards beyond a storage building in my back yard. Once I stood behind the barn as he shot several arrows into the target. I was amazed at how much noise I could hear the arrow making as it passed the end of the barn and then hit the target.. Kinda like SHHHHH Thump! As the arrow splits the air, it is not silent. I think we take for granted that the the thump of the bow is all the deer hear when we relase...I wonder if the thump of the bow plus the deer hearing the arrow coming is what makes them drop to prepair to run?

Muscle contractions being the key, like a flinch.

We have done that before to. I believe its more in the sound of the arrow than the bow myself.

+1

Tape a piece of paper to the target and tie a piece of string to the paper. Have your buddy aim at the center of the paper and when you hear the bow "go off" try and yank the paper off the target before the arrow gets there. You will be amazed at the results and just remember, a deers reaction time is a little better than ours.

how much drop on the 2nd deer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07zafCLg6Vo&feature=related

I think its a reaction to the sound of the bow string & arrow flight. I have had pretty good luck with just aiming for the low end of the vital area and more often that not hitting the boiler room. Deer are just lightning fast!