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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: coldtrail]
#2957664
11/16/19 08:30 AM
11/16/19 08:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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So you're basically sellling your freedom and rights to do what you want to your property. Makes me wonder ehat other righrs people would put on the market. 2nd Amendment?
The dems are buying if people are selling. I don’t think people will get any money for their gun rights. They’ll probably get a fine or worse if they don’t comply. But you really lose control of your land in an easement situation. Plans involving land clearing or even making a new path require paperwork. It defeats the purpose of owning land.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: coldtrail]
#2957730
11/16/19 09:39 AM
11/16/19 09:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,830 Luverne, AL
Skinny
GUVNER
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GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,830
Luverne, AL
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There is some mis-information going on here about conservation easements. I'm guessing because there are a lot of different kinds of easements. But WRP, GRP etc... are really good plans. Some people get EQIP mixed up with easements, that is just shared assistance and works with an entire different set of rules.
Never Trust Government
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: Whild_Bill]
#2958052
11/16/19 03:09 PM
11/16/19 03:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,148 Ramer
ronfromramer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,148
Ramer
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Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits. On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain. With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation. On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: ronfromramer]
#2958078
11/16/19 03:31 PM
11/16/19 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 central ala,
centralala
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits. On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain. With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation. On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping Paid damn good money for a first thinning of pines?? I think he may have embellished a little on that part
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: centralala]
#2958093
11/16/19 03:47 PM
11/16/19 03:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,148 Ramer
ronfromramer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,148
Ramer
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Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits. On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain. With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation. On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping Paid damn good money for a first thinning of pines?? I think he may have embellished a little on that part $8.50/ton for pulp and $11.50 for canterwood ain't too shabby, I wouldn't feel too bad about $80-100k for around 200 acres
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: centralala]
#2958184
11/16/19 04:50 PM
11/16/19 04:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,687 South Alabama
Rebelman
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,687
South Alabama
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The days of damn good money are over. I'll have to look some up but I remember over $20/ton for pulp. I doubt it. Maybe $20/cord. On the contrary, pine Pw gets to $20/ton nearly every year winter. Just need good ground.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: ronfromramer]
#2958224
11/16/19 05:25 PM
11/16/19 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,450 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,450
Boxes Cove
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Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits. On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain. With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation. On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping Once again WRP, CRP , Guvment cost share programs are totally different from Conservation Easements. Apples to Punkins.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: coldtrail]
#2959009
11/17/19 07:17 AM
11/17/19 07:17 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 238 Guntersville, Alabama
bamacamp
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 238
Guntersville, Alabama
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Conservation easements are an extremely popular method for those who can afford it to receive a tax right off. IRS code allows someone to purchase a property for say 100,000; you then have to hold onto the property for one year at which time if the land has a higher value say as a commercial development (perhaps it has lake view lots or something of that matter) you have the ability to have the land appraised and the come up with what the actual land could be worth (say 500,000) if truly developed into a subdivision.
You are then allowed to take the difference in what appraised value and what you paid for it (400,000 in this example) and submit a easement plan—if approved you can write the 400,000 dollars off your taxes over a 15 year period on up to half our of your yearly income. Basically it’s a really nice tax shelter but you have to spend a good bit up front hiring proper appraisers and getting your development plan to meet standard.
But yes after the property is eased you cannot develop it and it must be basically left in its current condition other than for something like hunting. However you have a nice tax write off and still have your hunting property. Win win in my opinion.
Last edited by bamacamp; 11/17/19 07:18 AM.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: bamacamp]
#2959029
11/17/19 07:51 AM
11/17/19 07:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,450 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,450
Boxes Cove
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Conservation easements are an extremely popular method for those who can afford it to receive a tax right off. IRS code allows someone to purchase a property for say 100,000; you then have to hold onto the property for one year at which time if the land has a higher value say as a commercial development (perhaps it has lake view lots or something of that matter) you have the ability to have the land appraised and the come up with what the actual land could be worth (say 500,000) if truly developed into a subdivision.
You are then allowed to take the difference in what appraised value and what you paid for it (400,000 in this example) and submit a easement plan—if approved you can write the 400,000 dollars off your taxes over a 15 year period on up to half our of your yearly income. Basically it’s a really nice tax shelter but you have to spend a good bit up front hiring proper appraisers and getting your development plan to meet standard.
But yes after the property is eased you cannot develop it and it must be basically left in its current condition other than for something like hunting. However you have a nice tax write off and still have your hunting property. Win win in my opinion. That's it in a nutshell. We have a couple hundred acres that could be quarried and mined for limestone. I've looked into getting one not to mine it ,( not looking to put in a quarry anyway.) In the right situations they are really good for the landowner.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: coldtrail]
#2959044
11/17/19 08:01 AM
11/17/19 08:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,102 Birmingham,AL
low wall
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,102
Birmingham,AL
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Bamacamp gave an excellent description of the way it works. The IRS has traditionally been very negative towards these easements, and if you are going to do it, you had better have an appraiser and attorney who are VERY familiar with the process. Sirote and Permutt, a Birminghamlaw firm, has a national reputation for successfully defending these. There has been considerably abuse of the system in recent years, with groups selling "shares", and using inflated/deflated appraisals and the IRS is absolutely clamping down on that (including criminal charges). I've seen a few appraisals involving easements, and it's my impression that there is a lot of ignorance about both the process and the values, even in the appraisal profession.
Used to be a lifeguard, until that blue kid got me fired.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: coldtrail]
#2959057
11/17/19 08:15 AM
11/17/19 08:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,830 Luverne, AL
Skinny
GUVNER
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GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,830
Luverne, AL
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unless the rules have changed recently, a landowner cannot get in the WRP/GRP program unless they have owned the land for 7 years or more. That prevents folks from doing a quick property flip for the WRP cash.
Never Trust Government
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: Remington270]
#2959156
11/17/19 09:51 AM
11/17/19 09:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,830 Luverne, AL
Skinny
GUVNER
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GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,830
Luverne, AL
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I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever. Not true. It depends on the agreement. Some are just 10 year easements others are full forever, and there are clauses and a lot of lawyer paper for each specific easement. I have seen conservation easements just for dirt roads that have a 20 year renewal clause.
Never Trust Government
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: Remington270]
#2959357
11/17/19 01:35 PM
11/17/19 01:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever. I wish my grandparents had the foresight to do exactly that. We've lost thousands of acres in the past 50 years because of heirs selling family land. Its a damn unforgivable shame.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: Out back]
#2959376
11/17/19 01:58 PM
11/17/19 01:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever. I wish my grandparents had the foresight to do exactly that. We've lost thousands of acres in the past 50 years because of heirs selling family land. Its a damn unforgivable shame. You can’t subdivide conservation easement land. So someone would either have to pony up and buy all the land from the estate, or the whole thing would have to sell as one tract.
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Re: Conservation easment purchase
[Re: Skinny]
#2959378
11/17/19 02:01 PM
11/17/19 02:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever. Not true. It depends on the agreement. Some are just 10 year easements others are full forever, and there are clauses and a lot of lawyer paper for each specific easement. I have seen conservation easements just for dirt roads that have a 20 year renewal clause. I’m not talking about any old easement for access. I’m talking about a federally recognized, IRS sanctioned conservation easement. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tip...ervation-easements-of-property/L8jRT8xAy
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