Cool. Thanks for your insights.

I don’t think there’s a reliable way to accurately age deer that are 3+. It’s all an educated guess.

I lived in Clayton and went to school at Dixie Academy. This was late 60's and early 70's and remember some really big deer killed around peanut fields. What was big in my eyes then may not be so big to me now.

I don't remember the landowners asking for it but could have been. I remember it as the State doing it. If the State was doing it, I really don't care if the results were good or bad, just the facts. Thought it might bring out something to consider for others.

I have some pics of deer killed in the 80's down there and they are big, even by today's standard. Boyd's over in Texasville had a board where folks would post pics of the deer they killed locally. There were always a few exceptional deer in those pics. Not sure if they still do that.

The way I've always heard it, from the beginning, was "the hunters and people in Barbour County wanted this" and it was spurred by the county in Georgia that did it.

You live down there, though, so you're in a better position to maybe clarify.

I don't believe the DCNR just picked Barbour out of 67 counties and manded APRs there, though, without request-support from locals.

Speaking of the Georgia county, does it pump out giant mature bucks and offer hunters a higher quality experience? They've had APRs for almost 30 years or more

I don't live there any more and I DANG sure don't trust my memory.....or my eyesight.....or my hearing!

OK, this is what I found:

Kenny Childree had witnessed first-hand the positive impact an antler restriction had on the deer herd at Barbour County Wildlife Management Area (WMA), and he was one of the leaders who pushed for similar regulations for the entire county.

The Alabama Conservation Advisory Board heeded that request and set up a five-year program that would try to measure the impact of the regulations.


As data collection enters its final year in the current 2009-10 season, Childree has already drawn his own conclusions from a layman�s perspective.


So, the citizens and the CAB was involved. Data collection been over for 9 years. What was the impact if any from the gathered data? Where can each year of data be seen?

its a secret

I have actually found some info from the biologist over this, Bill Gray. Long read. He throws out some really impressive numbers. The testing is over as of 2010 but the people of Barbour Co. were pleased enough to stay with it. I could see more counties wanting this if they were aware of all Bill Gray had to say. Example: They had a 500% reduction in harvest of 1.5 year old bucks and a 375% increase in 3.5 year old bucks. The number of man days required to harvest a 3.5 year old bucks was reduced significantly.

That all sounds great. Why hasn't it been published and publicized more?

That's my friend's dad....I used to hunt their land will Bill Gray back about 10 years ago before I started up my own club on some of their other family land.

Requesting reliable data from the DCNR?

Just being the devils dvocate here... but if it were published and talked about more would the public believe the numbers were true or take the stance directly above?

That's what happens when leadership has no credibility

I couldn’t care less. Just an observation that many wouldn’t believe anything put out by ADCNR. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t produce info but a lot of folks take your stance.

You can look back what I've written in this thread to see I have no problems with the boots on the ground. I'll argue with the biologist/ GWs but will keep it on subject and not make it a personal attack. In the end we shake hands and walk away until next time. This "project" for the Biologist ended in 2010. For myself, I was a adamant supporter of all things DCNR. Then comes Chuck Sykes in 2012 (2 years after the end of the survey). He openly lies to the hunters (I'll let 2Dogs address that), appears to change from conservation of a resource to a business, makes personal attacks on landowners, senior citizens, handicapped, and active military, and has a "King over a bunch of peasants" attitude. Hes the boss and some (all??) in Montgomery follow him blindly. So, to answer your question, would I have accepted this info pre-Chuck Sykes?? ABSOLUTELY!! Accept it with Chuck Sykes? I would look where the biologist report had been altered in Montgomery to appease the King and be skeptical.

How many others have my attitude?? I don't know. What I do know the working relationship between sportsmen and the DCNR is the lowest I've ever seen. What I do know is Sykes has torn down a working relationship between the DCNR and the people in a few years that took others a lifetime to build. The Game Check numbers has spoken volumes on this relationship instead of actual number of deer killed.

So, would the people accept this data in 2010 from Bill Gray? I sure would have and that's all I can speak for. Heck, it's 2019, and since it's prior to 2012, I'm accepting it now.

I understand all that and so understand it’s the job of the DCNR to provide that information but if the DCNR spent 2,500 man hours to produce a “high quality” deer report would you believe the data that was reported or would you toss it aside as something that couldn’t be trusted?

Yes or no?

I’m just curious.

No, I do not trust what comes out of Montgomery today.

Does that answer your question? Kind of a loaded question for a simple yes or no. I have no reason to NOT trust the biologist or GWs but I have no reason to trust.what comes out of Montgomery. So, if the biologist has to send the report to Montgomery (for approval?) before it reaches the sportsmen, NO, I would not trust it

Nighthunter, let me give you an example. Let's just say for arguments sake, it is proposed to extend the deer season in the North some by 10 days. Montgomery wants it extended but the biologist are against because of their on the ground experience. It gets extended. In a situation like this I will ALWAYS side with the biologist and quite simply can't trust what Montgomery is doing with OUR resources. So, the biologist request goes through Montgomery but it is NOT what is put out to the sportsmen. We have to trust it all or trust nothing coming out of Montgomery. We can't pick and choose.

That answers my question.

Unless things have changed 99% of information goes through or has to be approved by Montgomery.

To a finer point, knowing anything produced for widespread consumption has to be approved through Montgomery and we have established that you have no trust in that process, should the DCNR staff even bother with putting that kind of information together? Will it take a complete overhaul of Montgomery, meaning all the way down to district/program supervisors before you will take stock in anything produced by the DCNR?

Ultimately the Commissioner is in charge but he takes direction from the Governor. The governor takes heat from senators, congressmen, county/city officials and lobbyists.

Day to day DCNR operations are really handled by the Chiefs and Assistant Chiefs.

I guess my question is, how would you fix this? I mean real world answers. Not hire someone from ALDEER to clean house and take over. There’s a lot of moving parts and educational requirements to hold DCNR positions.

Where would you as a member of the hunting public suggest start to right the course.

I won’t discuss details but I was in on that conversation. Let just say I wasn’t pleased😉