Todd, at what point should the state say killing a deer (State's resource) can not be done by this method?
1. Pouring "bait" out of a bag
2. hunting over a grown food source either "placed" or naturally grown (like an acorn falls from an oak tree and sprouts, grows into a mature oak and drops acorn)
3. using a nightscope on a high powered rifle for hunting after dark standing in a foodplot
4. uses a spotlight and a high powered rifle to shoot deer from a vehicle (of course this would only be on your own property and shining your foodplots)
5. using drug laced "bait" to immobilize the deer so you can get really close and kill the deer
6. shooting deer running away from a forest fire
7. shooting deer swimming across a private lake while riding beside it in a boat
8. shooting a deer unable to escape from a 30'x30' enclosure surrounding a feeder
dispensing bait


From your comments one would figure that all of these would be okay because they result in a dead deer and some of these methods make it easier, so that is a good thing. Right?

If that is not right, at what point does it change from being okay/right to not being okay and wrong (i.e. should be prohibited by the State)?

How do you know corn makes it easier if you've never tried it?

One difference in all those other examples Fun4all is that to the best of my knowledge no weird inconsistency exists in those restrictions like in the baiting law. You can't night hunt deer with one type spotlight but not another. You can't drug deer with one type chemical but not another. You can't shoot deer swimming across one type public lake or river but not another. Etc, etc. You can debate whether any of those things should be legal if you want but at least those laws are consistent.

Some of them like night hunting are a safety issue I guess. Not sure it's a good idea for folks to be blasting out through the woods with high powered rifles at an eye reflection in the dark. Lots of potential for things besides deer to die right there.

Well now you have got me there. I have never tried it, but reading some of the postings on this site that seems to be a major reason for making it legal. If it's not easier then why all of the clamor for it?

The point of the post is in the last questions.

The following excerpts from a dissenting opinion writted by a justice of the Alabama Supreme Court involving laws and morals (obscenity in this case) are also applicable to our laws that attempt to legislate morals for hunters in my view.

McKinney v. City of Birmingham, 296 So. 2d 236 - Ala: Supreme Court 1974
JONES, Justice (dissenting).

But, 49'er......

You have missed the entire concept that you have to have Laws to make things LEGAL, not forbid them by making the ILLEGAL!

Maybe we should consider Section 9-11-245, which would remain in effect:


No person shall at any time make use of any:
-pitfall
-deadfall
-baited field
-cage
-trap
-net
-pen
-baited hook
-snare
-poison
-explosive
-chemical

...for the purpose of injuring, capturing, or killing birds or animals protected by law or regulation of this state.

This section shall not prevent the trapping of animals classified as fur-bearing animals by a duly licensed fur catcher. ...


Does getting a permit make it ethical or sportsmanlike to use the above to eradicate game animals that are also considered to fur bearers or a nuisance?

Well now you have got me there. I have never tried it, but reading some of the postings on this site that seems to be a major reason for making it legal. If it's not easier then why all of the clamor for it?

The point of the post is in the last questions. [/quote]

I'm not clamoring for or against. I'm saying there's no difference in a corn pile and a food plot. So basically you're saying you are against it because others are, or because others say it makes hunting easier......?? Strange way to form an opinion, but to each his own I guess.

So since the ethical, sporting or moral issue was sidestepped here is a question on the wierd inconsistency. It is okay to shoot two does per day for the entire hunting season, but you can only shoot three bucks that have antlers and one of the bucks has to meet more restrictions. Do you see any inconsistency there? Or, is it that okay because one deer has antlers and the other doesn't, but then another deer has to have more antlers than another deer for it to be "legal".

One type of deer you can legally kill 2 per day for 108 days = 216 does, but you can only shoot 3 bucks. Do you know of anywhere in the State that has ever had a buck to doe ratio of 72 to 1? If there was a place it certainly is not dispersed over the area that currently fall under the current limitations. Is that inconsistent?

So since in your opinion everything is bait and can be hunted over and you can legally bait by regulation in the state during the season why are you so fixated on pouring "bait" out of a bag? Is it really about the inconsistency? If it is are you leading the drive petitioning the legislature to change the other game and fish regulations and laws that are inconsistent?

Of course to some this is okay because after all we are talking about bucks and the State should make killing four bucks illegal instead of making it legal. After all the State did take away our freedom of killing one buck per day during the season, but that is okay. Where as, allowing another way to bait is just the State giving us our freedom back. On one hand the State should take a freedom away, while on the other hand they should give us a freedom back. No inconsistency there!

By George, I think I am catching on!!

jmj120 quote:
"I'm not clamoring for or against. I'm saying there's no difference in a corn pile and a food plot. So basically you're saying you are against it because others are, or because others say it makes hunting easier......?? Strange way to form an opinion, but to each his own I guess. [/quote]

Let's see.

Reasons given for "baiting" (pouring bait out of a bag)
1. everybody is doing it already
2. my neighbor is pulling deer off my land
3. all of the deer that are taken to the processor are full of corn
4. makes killing deer easier
5. everything else is "bait"
6. no difference in killing deer over a pile of corn than sitting in a shooting house over looking a foodplot or an oak tree dropping acorns
7. other States allow it
8. the law is inconsistent
9. defines "area"
10. gives us our freedom back
11. private land owner should be able to hunt however he wants
12. So people can "feed" year round
13. One of my favorites, just make it legal and if too many deer get killed reduce the limit
14. people can't afford or aren't allowed to plant foodplots

I am sure I have missed one or two other just as compelling justifications. What seems to be missing is anything that speaks about preserving, conserving, protecting or managing, but there sure is an awful lot of give me, help me, oh whoa is me and allow me sentiment in the "justifications".

Wanting to make sure I have the facts on why "baiting" should be allowed so I can form an opinion.

You will get no argument from me on that point. The virtual unlimited amount of does you can kill compared to only 3 bucks strikes me as more of a trophy deer management scheme aimed at producing more and bigger bucks rather than anything that really has any impact on the overall health of the herd. I'm sure some of the QDM guys will jump me for saying that. LOL!

But just because you are allowed to kill that many does doesn't mean that you have to shoot that many off your land.

shouldn't hear anything negative from people that support QDM, because QDM doesn't support unlimited doe harvest. It supports doe harvest as need to balance the herd. I'm not going to disagree that in most cases, now days, 2 does a day is extreme, but this does allow a hunter to kill multiple does in one day until they have met the proper quota for their property in lieu of dragging it out through the rut. I don't know anyone that shoots any doe they see b/c they think that's what they should do, but based on what some on here have said, maybe it's true. So education is the key as doe kills are generally part of a management plan designed to hold and kill more mature deer. In other words most people are only killing does cause either does need to be killed to reduce the population or keep the herd balanced OR they think does need to be killed for those reasons but the number of does they are killing is too extreme. Point is most people wouldn't have an issue laying off does but a lot of hunters do have an issue laying off bucks, which is why a restrictive buck limit makes sense and a liberal doe limit makes sense, IMO.

Let's see, reasons against baiting:

1. My Pappy said it's bad
2. The state made it illegal, confirming what my Pappy said.
3. Corn is yellow, grass is green
4. It doesn't require a tractor and is therefore too easy to apply.
5. Neighbors will shoot all of MY deer.
6. Neighbors will shoot all of public land deer.
7. Corn doesn't have roots, grass does.
8. Corn doesn't grow on trees, acorns do.
9. Corn doesn't result in more deer, tink's 69 does.
10. Corn is different from grass.
11. If you legalize corn you'll have to legalize night hunting.
12. Corn doesn't build fat reserves for deer to help get through winters with poor mast crops. Wait, that's not right. Well, grass does too. Wait, that's not right either. Oh heck, I don't know. This stuff gets confusing.
13. Lazy people can kill deer over corn. Hunting is for hard workers only.
14. Shooting deer over corn requires no skill, shooting deer eating grass does.
15. Corn is magic and deer can't resist its powers. They will come in a line day after day after day until there are no deer left.
16. Redneck Goobers use corn.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I know there's no more chance of changing the minds of those who hate all manner of change, than there is of changing the minds of us in favor of less unwarranted regulation. It is fun to debate it, but I can tell some are starting to get angry. So, I'm going to do my best to back out - at least for now.

Let's see.

Reasons given for "baiting" (pouring bait out of a bag)
1. everybody is doing it already
2. my neighbor is pulling deer off my land
3. all of the deer that are taken to the processor are full of corn
4. makes killing deer easier
5. everything else is "bait"
6. no difference in killing deer over a pile of corn than sitting in a shooting house over looking a foodplot or an oak tree dropping acorns
7. other States allow it
8. the law is inconsistent
9. defines "area"
10. gives us our freedom back
11. private land owner should be able to hunt however he wants
12. So people can "feed" year round
13. One of my favorites, just make it legal and if too many deer get killed reduce the limit
14. people can't afford or aren't allowed to plant foodplots

I am sure I have missed one or two other just as compelling justifications. What seems to be missing is anything that speaks about preserving, conserving, protecting or managing, but there sure is an awful lot of give me, help me, oh whoa is me and allow me sentiment in the "justifications".

Wanting to make sure I have the facts on why "baiting" should be allowed so I can form an opinion.
[/quote]

Just want to let you know that not everyone wants to do this for what some may say the wrong reasons. But i would love to know how you think legalizing baiting will make it that much easier to kill deer? Me for example I believe that the ppl this bill will benefit will be the ones that are feeding nutritional sups to the deer in turn making a healthier deer heard. Also just because you feed them does not mean they will walk out during the day. But here is the great thing if it passes YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT!

But i do have a question.... Based on the post i quoted i am assuming that you hunt with a stick and string and wear normal clothes do not use a tree stand or any type of sent/attractant because all those things make hunting easier.... And we don't want to make hunting any easier now do we ?

All i am trying to do is to get you to look at this with an open mind. Not everything has to be negative.

Now one thing with or without this bill stays true. The ppl that are all ready hunting illegally ie over bait at night ect ect ect.... They will keep doing it no matter what....

I love the entire part of hunting ie checking feeders, cams making plots ect ect not just the shooting them part... This bill if it passes will only aid those who love the entire sport year round. JMO hope i don't upset you in any form or fashion again just trying to get you to open your mind a little bit.

This is hilarious. And like most good comedy it's made even funnier by the fact that it's also true as well. Well crafted sir.

That list is the first one that I have seen that shows reasons for it to be illegal.

And, it summed up all snips, sarcasm and condescending 'Holier than Thou' posts have said quite well!!!

BTW, where does Food Plot seed and Fertilizer come from if it is not "poured out of a bag"????

For me this exchange and it's abrupt end is a microcosm of this whole debate with many (not all) on the anti-corn side.

Guy is just in a rage of righteous fury that anyone who favors legalizing corn baiting is just a unethical, redneck, pond scum, slob, hunter.

But you ask for a simple explanation of how it's so ethically different than sitting over a green patch that it warrents such venom and...........que the crickets chirping.

Never seen so many people so passionate about keeping something illegal when they cannot provide one single scientific fact indicating it's bad and won't even attempt to explain how it's morally different than sitting over a green field.

Todd1700, you must sleep less than I do.

Work nights and pretty much keep the same hours when I'm off. LOL!

I don't see a problem with putting corn out and hunting over it. I hunted over corn for 10 years in Louisiana, when i lived there. We didn't always hunt over corn and other products out of a bag. One reason we couldn't afford to buy bags of stuff each week. Another reason we saw just as many deer, if not more, without baiting. I only killed 15 deer while I lived in LA. I only killed 3 maybe 4 deer over bait. The rest were in green fields, power line, in white oak flats or pine thickets. Never killed a buck over bait, not that it hasn't happened by someone else, just my experience. I have only seen small bucks and does eating bait during daylight hours in those 10 years. I am sure people have had much different experience than I have hunting over bait. I don't understand what problem people have with hunting over bait. All it is is a food source, most people hunt food sources or trails leading to food sources all the time. Maybe my view point is this way because I started deer hunting over bait and it is normal to me. Just my thought.