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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2894638
09/01/19 10:03 PM
09/01/19 10:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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I wonder how many folks are planting this way now. You see more and more people asking questions and making comments but I still don't think we see the real number. Its just still new and many don't want to be bashed on for doing something different. I noticed in a video on their website that the QDMA folks are teaching about it in field seminars now. I guess its their own little twist on it.
Last edited by CNC; 09/01/19 10:04 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2894778
09/02/19 08:36 AM
09/02/19 08:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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I wonder how many folks are planting this way now. You see more and more people asking questions and making comments but I still don't think we see the real number. Its just still new and many don't want to be bashed on for doing something different. I noticed in a video on their website that the QDMA folks are teaching about it in field seminars now. I guess its their own little twist on it. I saw that video too. I’ve told a lot of folks about it. It blows their mind. So used to discing. For me it was a necessity. I’m a one man show and I can’t spend days and days cutting dirt. So I skipped it. Plots are better than I’ve ever had.
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2894792
09/02/19 08:50 AM
09/02/19 08:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 N. Bama
257wbymag
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
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Fixing to be a long dry spell.
Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!! My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty I'm the paterfamilias
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: jaredhunts]
#2895193
09/02/19 05:42 PM
09/02/19 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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If it's any concelation, i heard it here first. It all started back on the old QDMA forum before they shut it down with a guy named Doug Gallow preaching to everyone about soil health. I had 4-5 years’ worth of experiments posted on their forum that was lost when they did away with it. That’s when I started talking about it here. I wish we’d called it something different in the beginning. It may be too late to change now. Someone suggested way back when that we call it the “CnC Method” but I said no to that because to me that was being arrogant and taking credit for something that I didn’t create nor was I the only one who had a hand in bringing it to light. It would have been a slap in the face to all the others like dgallow, the Japanese farmer who wrote One Straw Revolution, Paul Knox, blumsden who has been on board from day one, the “undercover farmers”, Ray Archuleta, and all the other folks who have played a role in changing the way we all think. I hate to see the “TV guys” take and put a twist on it in order to make it their own little method that they can commercialize. This method does not belong to any of us. Its nothing any of us designed or developed. It’s simply the natural processes of the soil and plant cycle. All I’m doing is pointing it out to you and helping you to understand how it works. Once you understand that then you can apply it and adapt or tweak the method to fit any individual situation. It should be called “Natural Food Plotting” or something of that nature.
Last edited by CNC; 09/02/19 05:43 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: 257wbymag]
#2895417
09/02/19 09:28 PM
09/02/19 09:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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Fixing to be a long dry spell. Real long. I won’t be slinging seed until I see some good rain chances.
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2895895
09/03/19 03:30 PM
09/03/19 03:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652 SW Alabama
ALFisher
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
SW Alabama
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I haven't done it on all my food plots. Why? Because it's been hit or miss for me. This method seems to be much more susceptible to lack of rain than discing, even though it shouldn't be that way. I'm just giving you my personal experience. It's probably because our soils are really, really sandy, and at the end of summer, you may not have enough biomass to cover the seed, or if you do, it's really heavy stemmed stuff like ragweed or dog fennel or something that just doesn't break down on top of the seed like grass. I'm going to keep trying to expand it though, because I'd love to get all of them into it. planting about 15 acres total now, and about a third in T&M.
Last edited by ALFisher; 09/03/19 03:31 PM.
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: ALFisher]
#2895911
09/03/19 04:13 PM
09/03/19 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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I haven't done it on all my food plots. Why? Because it's been hit or miss for me. This method seems to be much more susceptible to lack of rain than discing, even though it shouldn't be that way. I'm just giving you my personal experience. It's probably because our soils are really, really sandy, and at the end of summer, you may not have enough biomass to cover the seed, or if you do, it's really heavy stemmed stuff like ragweed or dog fennel or something that just doesn't break down on top of the seed like grass. I'm going to keep trying to expand it though, because I'd love to get all of them into it. planting about 15 acres total now, and about a third in T&M. Keep in mind that for most folks this is gonna be a rebuilding process that’s gonna take a number of years to get right. It’s not really just a matter of trying it and it being hit or miss as to whether it works. There’s likely not gonna be very many fields that do well in the beginning of the process. When you get to years 3, 4, and 5 though things should start looking a whole lot different for you assuming you’ve made the right moves to help the process along. I didn’t start out being able to grow really good looking plots when all I had was a field full of sand…..but now that I have a field with a foot deep organic layer across the top things work a whole lot differently. If you’ve got too much broadleaf plant composition in the field and aren’t getting enough “hay” to cover your seed….then maybe try mowing it once (maybe twice if not inconvenient to do so) during the summer next year and see if that doesn’t help bring back some grass species into the mix. One of the things you’re looking for in a natural mix is a balance of grass, broadleaf, and legume. You may have to tweak things along the way to achieve the results you’re wanting but always keep in mind that every field is at some stage of a long term process.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2896002
09/03/19 07:17 PM
09/03/19 07:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,524 TX
hunting13
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,524
TX
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I haven't done it on all my food plots. Why? Because it's been hit or miss for me. This method seems to be much more susceptible to lack of rain than discing, even though it shouldn't be that way. I'm just giving you my personal experience. It's probably because our soils are really, really sandy, and at the end of summer, you may not have enough biomass to cover the seed, or if you do, it's really heavy stemmed stuff like ragweed or dog fennel or something that just doesn't break down on top of the seed like grass. I'm going to keep trying to expand it though, because I'd love to get all of them into it. planting about 15 acres total now, and about a third in T&M. Keep in mind that for most folks this is gonna be a rebuilding process that’s gonna take a number of years to get right. It’s not really just a matter of trying it and it being hit or miss as to whether it works. There’s likely not gonna be very many fields that do well in the beginning of the process. When you get to years 3, 4, and 5 though things should start looking a whole lot different for you assuming you’ve made the right moves to help the process along. I didn’t start out being able to grow really good looking plots when all I had was a field full of sand…..but now that I have a field with a foot deep organic layer across the top things work a whole lot differently. If you’ve got too much broadleaf plant composition in the field and aren’t getting enough “hay” to cover your seed….then maybe try mowing it once (maybe twice if not inconvenient to do so) during the summer next year and see if that doesn’t help bring back some grass species into the mix. One of the things you’re looking for in a natural mix is a balance of grass, broadleaf, and legume. You may have to tweak things along the way to achieve the results you’re wanting but always keep in mind that every field is at some stage of a long term process. Great explanation.
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2896163
09/03/19 10:35 PM
09/03/19 10:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652 SW Alabama
ALFisher
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
SW Alabama
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Thanks. Will do. Do you spray at all or are you just mowing? I sprayed some of mine this year for first time and am looking forward to see how it works.
Last edited by ALFisher; 09/03/19 10:37 PM.
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: ALFisher]
#2896171
09/03/19 10:43 PM
09/03/19 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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Thanks. Will do. Do you spray at all or are you just mowing? I sprayed some of mine this year for first time and am looking forward to see how it works. I don't spray anymore. I wait until early October and just mow. It's not as clean looking in the beginning but it works out just fine the weeks roll by and we start getting some frosts. Most all summer broadleafs will be at the end of their life cycle and gone to seed. They'll terminate just from mowing. Its the grasses that will often bounce back on you until frost/freeze. It's an individual call. I try to stay away from spraying and such as much as possible because we don't know for sure how we're effecting our microbial community with such things. I'd like to move away from synthetic fertilizers too but its hard to grow enough forage on small acreages without the added N. On sandy soils you tend to run N deficient really easily too
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2896172
09/03/19 10:44 PM
09/03/19 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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Just to elaborate a little further on what I was saying earlier…….
I see a lot of comments folks make such as “This technique doesn’t seem to work well in this situation”….or “It doesn’t work on this type of field”…..etc……Comments like that lead me to believe that a many folks are not seeing the bigger picture. This is not simply a planting technique….It’s a long term soil building process that mimics the natural ways in which soil and plant communities are built and made to properly function. It’s something that you go into from the beginning with short term as well as long term goals……Not something where you throw out seed one year and draw conclusions from it. I believe this type of technique will likely work on most any situation. They'll just be different paths that must be taken in order to get the fields in the right condition for it to work.....The things that will need to be done will just depend on the soil type and current conditions of each field. You just need to understand the processes.....the tools that you have at your disposal....and how you can effect the situation by using those tools to tweak this and that along the way.
Also, like I was saying in the other post….you really have to recognize the difference in what a field is capable of once your farther along in the process versus just starting out. A few years ago it was time to plant and the weather man was giving a 90% chance of at least an inch or more of rain. Like everybody else I went ahead and put my seed out and mowed with expectations of rain a few days later. The forecast was a bust though and it never rained at all. Despite not having any rain my plot still germinated and started growing and eventually did just fine. It did so because I had banked and conserved so much soil moisture from the prior rains we had in the weeks leading up to planting time. It’s an apples to oranges comparison to draw conclusions on a field like mine where there is plenty of organic matter and thatch present to conserve moisture in this way versus a abused field of sand that someone is just trying to begin to turn around. These are just things that everyone needs to consider.
Last edited by CNC; 09/03/19 10:50 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2896497
09/04/19 11:24 AM
09/04/19 11:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,034 Northport, AL
Phil_Army
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,034
Northport, AL
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So this past weekend I sprayed my pasture behind the house and was going to let it die and wait for a big rain to come through before I throw and mow. My yard guy came by and cut my pasture so I'm about to have a pasture of freshly cut dead grass lol
Do you think I'd have enough success with throwing my seed out and then putting some hay over the seed since I won't have enough grass clippings?
Broker/Owner and Area Representative for 1st Class Real Estate 2018's #1 Real Estate Agent according to the Tuscaloosa News
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2896531
09/04/19 12:20 PM
09/04/19 12:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652 SW Alabama
ALFisher
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
SW Alabama
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Thanks. Will do. Do you spray at all or are you just mowing? I sprayed some of mine this year for first time and am looking forward to see how it works. I don't spray anymore. I wait until early October and just mow. It's not as clean looking in the beginning but it works out just fine the weeks roll by and we start getting some frosts. Most all summer broadleafs will be at the end of their life cycle and gone to seed. They'll terminate just from mowing. Its the grasses that will often bounce back on you until frost/freeze. It's an individual call. I try to stay away from spraying and such as much as possible because we don't know for sure how we're effecting our microbial community with such things. I'd like to move away from synthetic fertilizers too but its hard to grow enough forage on small acreages without the added N. On sandy soils you tend to run N deficient really easily too I hear ya, but my problem is that in some of the fields (former pastures with good ph levels), certain grasses are taking over these fields in the summer time this way. some times really thick grasses, and if you aren't careful, you will get some cogongrass around, which seems to attach itself to just about any kind of open area in southwest Alabama. But, even if in places without cogongrass, you can get just a mat of really thick stuff that makes it hard to plant anything in summer or fall. I kind of have a mix of a few old pastures and then a bunch of sandy former logging decks that I've made larger. It's probably the old logging decks that I really need to implement this on.
Last edited by ALFisher; 09/04/19 12:22 PM.
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: Phil_Army]
#2898453
09/06/19 10:58 PM
09/06/19 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
|
So this past weekend I sprayed my pasture behind the house and was going to let it die and wait for a big rain to come through before I throw and mow. My yard guy came by and cut my pasture so I'm about to have a pasture of freshly cut dead grass lol
Do you think I'd have enough success with throwing my seed out and then putting some hay over the seed since I won't have enough grass clippings? The grass or hay will stay fluffy for a week or two depending on the weather. As long as it's like that then you'll do fine just broadcasting seed and fertilizer and either dragging over it or mowing over it again. Eventually though it's gonna lay down on the soil surface and start forming a mat. Once it does that then it'll be harder for your seed to reach the soil surface.... especially if you've got thick thatch on top. If it gets to that point then you probably want to very lightly run a disk or something over it. Not to turn dirt but to fluff up that mat again and get your seed down under it.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: ALFisher]
#2898461
09/06/19 11:11 PM
09/06/19 11:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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Thanks. Will do. Do you spray at all or are you just mowing? I sprayed some of mine this year for first time and am looking forward to see how it works. I don't spray anymore. I wait until early October and just mow. It's not as clean looking in the beginning but it works out just fine the weeks roll by and we start getting some frosts. Most all summer broadleafs will be at the end of their life cycle and gone to seed. They'll terminate just from mowing. Its the grasses that will often bounce back on you until frost/freeze. It's an individual call. I try to stay away from spraying and such as much as possible because we don't know for sure how we're effecting our microbial community with such things. I'd like to move away from synthetic fertilizers too but its hard to grow enough forage on small acreages without the added N. On sandy soils you tend to run N deficient really easily too I hear ya, but my problem is that in some of the fields (former pastures with good ph levels), certain grasses are taking over these fields in the summer time this way. some times really thick grasses, and if you aren't careful, you will get some cogongrass around, which seems to attach itself to just about any kind of open area in southwest Alabama. But, even if in places without cogongrass, you can get just a mat of really thick stuff that makes it hard to plant anything in summer or fall. I kind of have a mix of a few old pastures and then a bunch of sandy former logging decks that I've made larger. It's probably the old logging decks that I really need to implement this on. We have some old pasture at the lease that's probably 95% thick bahaigrass...dang near a monoculture and way out of whack for what I'm looking for with a long term wildlfe plot. We sprayed it with gly early in the summer to start thinning it out and allowing the root systems to break down some. Plans are to come back and sow it with a mix of about 50/50 cereal rye and crimson clover this fall and play it by ear from there. If additional spraying is needed to knock it back some more it'll be done with something like Clethodim...a grass select herbicide. Making small tweaks to help maintain the balance we're looking for may always be necessary to keep our fileds that way every year. Nature doesn't seem to mind letting the pendulum swing back and forth a little more than I like. It'll correct itslef but it may be over a several year period. I think we can dip our hands into the process when need be and help keep things balanced each and every year once you get things going your way. Don't overlook adding a little clover to all of your plots each year. Not to grow lush fields of pure clover but to keep a little mix of a legume component going. You don't have to sow full rates every year. Just always add a pound here and a pound there each year. A lot of it will resend itlsef. Start with crimson and as things improve add a.little durana or ladino....then maybe a pound of balansa or yuchi....the legume component is a very important part of the bigger cycle. We can get into this deeper later on but just to scratch the surface....decomposition for one needs a balanced mix of carbon and nitrogen to work efficiently. With a situation like with the fields of pure bahaigrass....you've got tons of carbon but no nitrogen. The whole cycle gets bogged down as a result like a carburator getting all fuel and no air. We got a fair stand of cereal grains to establish amongst it last year but couldn't keep it from going N deficient even though we added way more than I normally would. The reason was because of all the carbon that had accumulated that was needing the N to balance the decomposition and get rid of it. Until that is taken care of my cereal grains take a back seat and don't get the N.....Balance is important
Last edited by CNC; 09/06/19 11:26 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A
[Re: CNC]
#2898587
09/07/19 08:32 AM
09/07/19 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,760
Awbarn, AL
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Alfisher...... something else I didn't mention that would be worth researching and reading about if you've never done so is how soil can be dominated by bacteria is some situations and fungi in other scenarios....I'm trying to pull this from memory and a quick scan of a Google search but I'm thinking your old pasture fields that are being over run by grass may be dominated by fungi with little bacteria present. I'll let you read about it instead of typing a novel but this may be something you want to tweak to have better balance in those fields and promote other types of species to thrive.
We dont rent pigs
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