I am totally against a reduction in bag limits, until I see more data to support it. However, the idea that just because 3 or 4 gobblers are left to breed 30 or more hens isn't biologically sound from a genetics standpoint. You want genetic diversity in a breeding population and the more that is reduced, the more likely you will see inbreeding and our turkeys will start acting like West Virginians. I don't know what the magic number is for turkeys, but I'd bet the farm it's more than a handful of gobblers to 30 hens.

Ben, do you disagree with my point that the illegal hunters who don't participate in GC will be unaffected by any change in the limit? I am sure there are hunters who fill out the paperwork to avoid getting a ticket and then never GC the bird, but I suspect the ones who do that and tell you they stop at the limit are lying.

Troy has often said that in his experience most hunters who have the resources to kill more than 5 will kill more than 5. That's what I have noticed as well. I am very pessimistic about the prospects of getting hunters who won't GC their kills to obey any hunting regs. They have already shown that it doesn't hurt their conscience to break the law. Again, I think this is all about perception and will have no benefit for the turkeys.

Ben how much land do you hunt and what do you do every year to help grow/sustain your turkey population?

I am going to give you an example of how I have transformed a 750 acre tract of property from a mediocre turkey property into a jam up property by doing a few things. This property is not very far from you either. It also consist of typical Alabama property and not 750 acers of manicured hardwoods.Trapping coons/coyotes for starters, I live to far away but I got the deer hunters which live close by to wage war on the coons/coyotes. I invest a lot of money in white/red clover which I provide to the deer hunters free of charge and they plant the plots during the fall. I buy and plant at least 3 to 4 acres of chufa every year on this property. Lastly I manage my trigger finger! I am 6 years into leasing the sole turkey rights on this property and the population has grown with each year. I average any where from 10 to 12 mature gobblers and have seen at least 6 jakes and as many as 12 annually for the past 5 years. My partner and I take no more than 5 birds off this property every spring. We could kill a limit each year off this place if we choose to do so. The amount of jakes we have each year could handle any breeding the mature birds did not take care. It is our choice to leave some mature birds and finish out our limits on other properties. Do I think leaving the mature birds makes a difference, no I do not. If that was the case I should see 15 to 20 gobblers instead of the consistent numbers I have seen. There are several factors that come into play. My #1 factor is the amount of acreage. I know several of those mature birds range off of my lease never to be seen again. You will also have natural mortality or predator kills every year to some degree. You will also have poor hatches along with a lot more variables that lead to turkey population decline on certain years. We has game keepers can help by buy doing things we can control which are mentioned above. Those are just a few basic things most land owners/lease holders can do that help.

It takes extra money, effort and some self imposed restrictions to ensure I have turkeys to hunt each spring. I don't need the state to limit my opportunities to hunt in my home state. What would be helpful is if the state would encourage more trapping and predator hunting. If would also be helpful to publish information/guidance on how land owners and lease holders could improve their properties to promote a better turkey population. I get emails all the time from the Alabama DNR and very little is useful to me. They need to use this avenue to help promote and educate folks that otherwise are to lazy to ask/look for the help or simply don't know where to start to find the information. I did not learn what I know today overnight and I sure wish I had the knowledge I know now at my finger tips much earlier.

I have never seen a state or federal mandated plan work out as intended. I'm sure there are many success stories out there, but I have never seen one. What I have seen and agree with PCP here, is the freedom the state has given land owners/lease holders to manage their property for better wildlife. This is encouraged by the length of our season and generous bag limits. Take that away and I have the same fear as many do have here, that land owners/lease holders will do less and it be determinantal to population.

Ben how much land do you hunt and what do you do every year to help grow/sustain your turkey population?

I am going to give you an example of how I have transformed a 750 acre tract of property from a mediocre turkey property into a jam up property by doing a few things. This property is not very far from you either. It also consist of typical Alabama property and not 750 acers of manicured hardwoods.Trapping coons/coyotes for starters, I live to far away but I got the deer hunters which live close by to wage war on the coons/coyotes. I invest a lot of money in white/red clover which I provide to the deer hunters free of charge and they plant the plots during the fall. I buy and plant at least 3 to 4 acres of chufa every year on this property. Lastly I manage my trigger finger! I am 6 years into leasing the sole turkey rights on this property and the population has grown with each year. I average any where from 10 to 12 mature gobblers and have seen at least 6 jakes and as many as 12 annually for the past 5 years. My partner and I take no more than 5 birds off this property every spring. We could kill a limit each year off this place if we choose to do so. The amount of jakes we have each year could handle any breeding the mature birds did not take care. It is our choice to leave some mature birds and finish out our limits on other properties. Do I think leaving the mature birds makes a difference, no I do not. If that was the case I should see 15 to 20 gobblers instead of the consistent numbers I have seen. There are several factors that come into play. My #1 factor is the amount of acreage. I know several of those mature birds range off of my lease never to be seen again. You will also have natural mortality or predator kills every year to some degree. You will also have poor hatches along with a lot more variables that lead to turkey population decline on certain years. We has game keepers can help by buy doing things we can control which are mentioned above. Those are just a few basic things most land owners/lease holders can do that help.

It takes extra money, effort and some self imposed restrictions to ensure I have turkeys to hunt each spring. I don't need the state to limit my opportunities to hunt in my home state. What would be helpful is if the state would encourage more trapping and predator hunting. If would also be helpful to publish information/guidance on how land owners and lease holders could improve their properties to promote a better turkey population. I get emails all the time from the Alabama DNR and very little is useful to me. They need to use this avenue to help promote and educate folks that otherwise are to lazy to ask/look for the help or simply don't know where to start to find the information. I did not learn what I know today overnight and I sure wish I had the knowledge I know now at my finger tips much earlier.

I have never seen a state or federal mandated plan work out as intended. I'm sure there are many success stories out there, but I have never seen one. What I have seen and agree with PCP here, is the freedom the state has given land owners/lease holders to manage their property for better wildlife. This is encouraged by the length of our season and generous bag limits. Take that away and I have the same fear as many do have here, that land owners/lease holders will do less and it be determinantal to population.

The ones I know wont kill over the limit

Mike, would it be safe to say you wouldn’t go to all that trouble if you could only kill 3? Me personally, I feel pretty confident I can scrounge up 3 birds between the couple of places close to home I hunt and public land. I’d drop the turkey rights I have in south Alabama, stop planting Chufas, etc. there simply wouldn’t be any point in leasing a ton of land or putting a ton of work into it. As I’ve witnessed in Georgia, I think this would be a widespread mindset.

Y'know, if they'd just go to a 2-gobbler limit and knock two weeks off of the season, think of all the birds that could be "saved" and stockpiled for the future.

Duck hunters had to do this for a while in the 1980s with the 1-bird daily limit.

Going to a season limit of two gobblers with a minimum beard length of 5 or 6 inches and making the season April 1-30 could do wonders. Just like with the 3-buck limit, we'd have scads more mature bucks and a healthier herd of turkeys.

It's for the good of the turkeys. Besides, who needs to kill more than two birds a season anyway? If it's truly about the experience and "being in Creation" and all, then two should be enough.

Another factor I never hear discussed is when birds 4, 5, and beyond actually get killed relative to the start of the season? For every capable turkey hunter I know, I don't know a single one who will kill more than one in a day in Alabama....even the outlaws. With that being said, and given the fact it is unheard of to kill 5 turkeys in as many days up this way, assuming it takes a minimum of a couple weeks to kill all 5.....what possible difference could it make in the population is gobblers 4 and 5 don't get killed until say two weeks into the season AT LEAST? The whole premise of cutting the limit is just flawed in every single aspect. I personally, given I fully understand from observation and trail cameras how many hens haven't even thought about breeding when our season opens, would have no problem with them starting the season later in extreme north Alabama and could quasi get behind that change having a biologically sound reason for doing so. The limit reduction would be nothing but PC, liberal, feelgoodism bullchit that does absolutely nothing other than take away opportunities from law-abiding hunters.

For every capable turkey hunter I know, I don't know a single one who will kill more than one in a day in Alabama....even the outlaws.

I was sent a picture of one guy holding up three dead longbeards opening morning. It's an internal struggle for me trying to decide on whether or not to throw buddies under the bus and report them for killing WAY over the limit of birds.

Yeah, this is probably the only thing I disagree with in Jugheads post. Lots of more than one a days killed...

Predators , predators and more predators is the biggest problem IMO.