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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: ford150man]
#274145
01/31/12 09:05 AM
01/31/12 09:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,668
Central Alabama
QDMAV8R
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,668
Central Alabama
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Most, if not all, free ranging whitetail bucks are culls. Genetically inferior in some form or fashion. So you have a few choices: 1) shoot em all, 2) shoot some of them, or 3) let them develop/grow to be the most they can be.
Unless you are high fencing and buying straws for insemination at $10,000+ a pop, your little trigger finger is not going to change the antler configurations in your neck of the woods.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. However, a mature deer has done all he is able to do and I can appreciate and respect that not all of them are going to be B&C, but are "trophies" none the less, regardless of antler configuration.
Cull, is a four letter word of meaningless significance in free ranging deer herds.
Last edited by QDMAV8R; 01/31/12 10:07 AM.
"Never met a deer that I didn't like" - QDMAV8R
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: ford150man]
#274186
01/31/12 09:45 AM
01/31/12 09:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,331
Chelsea, Al
HOWTON21
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,331
Chelsea, Al
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Here's what I believe. If your going to call a 4+ yr old buck with undesirable horn chacteristics a "cull" thats fine by me, I've always just said they were mature deer and am always happy to kill mature deer. However, I believe using the term "cull" on a deer that is relatively young that you have only watched for one year is an incorrect statement. For one, you have no way of knowing what caused the said deer to display a specific horn characteristic for that specific year. I have seen plenty of deer, like others have said, that may have a good side and a single beam on the other or doesn't have browtines or any other undersirable trait, turn into to some really good deer when given time to age. The irregular horns could be from a genetic defect or it could simply be from an injury, you have know way of knowing this from a single citing or from one year of pictures.
Even if you do decide to take the 2 1/2 yr old buck that displays undesirable characteristics, I don't beleive you've done anything to change to genetic make up of your herd. Even if you kill every one that you see like that your not going to kill them all, your not even going to come close to even seeing half of them. Like others have said,the other half of the gene is carried in the doe so I'm not sure your plan to irradicate that. Deer in general can travel a long way and even if you kill a "cull" buck there will be another one right there to take his place. I don't believe you've done a thing to change the gene pool long or short term and your doing nothing but wasting buck tags trying to accomplish an unrealistic goal.
When I say "goal" I'm assuming your trying to kill big bucks since your "culling" the undesirable young bucks. I just think that there's a lot better ways to improve the quality of a deer herd besides culling bucks. Instead of spending your time "culling" bucks, why not spend it improving the quality of the habitat that your hunting. Doing that and letting deer age to maturity will provide way better results in the long run in my opinion.
Last edited by HOWTON21; 01/31/12 09:47 AM.
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: QDMAV8R]
#274239
01/31/12 10:27 AM
01/31/12 10:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,861
Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,861
Elmore County
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Most, if not all, free ranging whitetail bucks are culls. Genetically inferior in some form or fashion. So you have a few choices: 1) shoot em all, 2) shoot some of them, or 3) let them develop/grow to be the most they can be.
Unless you are high fencing and buying straws for insemination at $10,000+ a pop, your little trigger finger is not going to change the antler configurations in your neck of the woods.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. However, a mature deer has done all he is able to do and I can appreciate and respect that not all of them are going to be B&C, but are "trophies" none the less, regardless of antler configuration.
Cull, is a four letter word of meaningless significance in free ranging deer herds. some tell me killing one coyote don't help but i don't buy that enough .
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: ford150man]
#274451
01/31/12 02:37 PM
01/31/12 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,441
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,441
Boxes Cove
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No, A 2 year old 6pt with no brows is not a cull. Or is a 2 year old 6 with brows. IMHO not many can be labeled culls at 2-2.5. Only a very few ,and would be very obvious.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: Frankie]
#274499
01/31/12 04:00 PM
01/31/12 04:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,668
Central Alabama
QDMAV8R
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,668
Central Alabama
|
Most, if not all, free ranging whitetail bucks are culls. Genetically inferior in some form or fashion. So you have a few choices: 1) shoot em all, 2) shoot some of them, or 3) let them develop/grow to be the most they can be.
Unless you are high fencing and buying straws for insemination at $10,000+ a pop, your little trigger finger is not going to change the antler configurations in your neck of the woods.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. However, a mature deer has done all he is able to do and I can appreciate and respect that not all of them are going to be B&C, but are "trophies" none the less, regardless of antler configuration.
Cull, is a four letter word of meaningless significance in free ranging deer herds. some tell me killing one coyote don't help but i don't buy that enough . Well experts say you can kill 75% of the current yote poulation and their numbers will be unchanged by next year.
"Never met a deer that I didn't like" - QDMAV8R
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: QDMAV8R]
#274863
01/31/12 10:41 PM
01/31/12 10:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,861
Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,861
Elmore County
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Most, if not all, free ranging whitetail bucks are culls. Genetically inferior in some form or fashion. So you have a few choices: 1) shoot em all, 2) shoot some of them, or 3) let them develop/grow to be the most they can be.
Unless you are high fencing and buying straws for insemination at $10,000+ a pop, your little trigger finger is not going to change the antler configurations in your neck of the woods.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. However, a mature deer has done all he is able to do and I can appreciate and respect that not all of them are going to be B&C, but are "trophies" none the less, regardless of antler configuration.
Cull, is a four letter word of meaningless significance in free ranging deer herds. some tell me killing one coyote don't help but i don't buy that enough . Well experts say you can kill 75% of the current yote poulation and their numbers will be unchanged by next year. and i'll tell them a dead coyote don't eat . a dead cull buck can't bred .
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: gobbler]
#275305
02/01/12 03:18 PM
02/01/12 03:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 502
se alabama
slipn
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 502
se alabama
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Maybe we ought to coin a new phrase "Cull Hunter "  Good idea- the idea of "cull bucks" is ridiculous for several reasons, let me count the ways: 1. At least half of the genetics of a herd lie in female deer, which have no antlers. 2. Read up on evolution, and see how long it takes for even a small change to take effect in a population... longer than any of our lifetimes, and surely not 10-15 yrs. 3. You can't be sure that a deer's poorly formed antlers aren't from an injury - which would not affect its genetics. I think itchy trigger finger accounts for most of the cull buck activity Lucky you are not a biologist with that opinion - someone would be demanding that you post your resume to back it up  sorry about ASKING to see your resume - you were blowing such a loud horn i wanted a picture of the truck before i got run over too
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: QDMAV8R]
#275769
02/01/12 11:54 PM
02/01/12 11:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,861
Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,861
Elmore County
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Most, if not all, free ranging whitetail bucks are culls. Genetically inferior in some form or fashion. So you have a few choices: 1) shoot em all, 2) shoot some of them, or 3) let them develop/grow to be the most they can be.
Unless you are high fencing and buying straws for insemination at $10,000+ a pop, your little trigger finger is not going to change the antler configurations in your neck of the woods.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. However, a mature deer has done all he is able to do and I can appreciate and respect that not all of them are going to be B&C, but are "trophies" none the less, regardless of antler configuration.
Cull, is a four letter word of meaningless significance in free ranging deer herds. so you know , this is what i consider a cull to be for my area . if i can help it i see no need for him to stay in the population . this is last year picture taken after season . http://bamahunter.com/102.JPG http://bamahunter.com/103.JPG
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: ford150man]
#275773
02/02/12 12:23 AM
02/02/12 12:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,073
TN
Reaper
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,073
TN
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: Frankie]
#275796
02/02/12 06:11 AM
02/02/12 06:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,441
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,441
Boxes Cove
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Frankie, he looks old and ugly, bang!
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: HOWTON21]
#275828
02/02/12 08:25 AM
02/02/12 08:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
War Eagle, USA
Bucktrot
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
War Eagle, USA
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Here's what I believe. If your going to call a 4+ yr old buck with undesirable horn chacteristics a "cull" thats fine by me, I've always just said they were mature deer and am always happy to kill mature deer. However, I believe using the term "cull" on a deer that is relatively young that you have only watched for one year is an incorrect statement. For one, you have no way of knowing what caused the said deer to display a specific horn characteristic for that specific year. I have seen plenty of deer, like others have said, that may have a good side and a single beam on the other or doesn't have browtines or any other undersirable trait, turn into to some really good deer when given time to age. The irregular horns could be from a genetic defect or it could simply be from an injury, you have know way of knowing this from a single citing or from one year of pictures.
Even if you do decide to take the 2 1/2 yr old buck that displays undesirable characteristics, I don't beleive you've done anything to change to genetic make up of your herd. Even if you kill every one that you see like that your not going to kill them all, your not even going to come close to even seeing half of them. Like others have said,the other half of the gene is carried in the doe so I'm not sure your plan to irradicate that. Deer in general can travel a long way and even if you kill a "cull" buck there will be another one right there to take his place. I don't believe you've done a thing to change the gene pool long or short term and your doing nothing but wasting buck tags trying to accomplish an unrealistic goal.
When I say "goal" I'm assuming your trying to kill big bucks since your "culling" the undesirable young bucks. I just think that there's a lot better ways to improve the quality of a deer herd besides culling bucks. Instead of spending your time "culling" bucks, why not spend it improving the quality of the habitat that your hunting. Doing that and letting deer age to maturity will provide way better results in the long run in my opinion. X a billion!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's "Trophy" deer mgmt and "Quality" deer mgmt. Culling a 2.5 yr old buck, IMO, is just an excuse to shoot a buck. Besides, that's "TDM" and pure "TDM" requires MUCH time and money and resources most of us don't have the stomach to practice. It is my opinion that the harvest of mature bucks by mature hunters should be the goal depending on harvest numbers. Taking a few immature bucks out of a herd won't hurt it. A "GROUP" of hunters all killing immature bucks will hurt a herd! All "mature" bucks are trophies!! ....sorry, I get off on tangents!!!
Last edited by Bucktrot; 02/02/12 08:35 AM.
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: Bucktrot]
#275835
02/02/12 08:50 AM
02/02/12 08:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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Taking a few immature bucks out of a herd won't hurt it. A "GROUP" of hunters all killing immature bucks will hurt a herd! All "mature" bucks are trophies!! ....sorry, I get off on tangents!!!
Could you share the source of your research with us? I would like to see the scientific studies you base your opinion on. I'm not interested in magazine articles. Most of the deer management studies I've read conclude that having a balanced age structure of male deer is best. Why would you target only the older males if you want a balanced age structure?
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: ford150man]
#275836
02/02/12 08:51 AM
02/02/12 08:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,184
alabama
BhamFred
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,184
alabama
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I don't have anything to add to this thread, just wanted to post on it...... carry on... troy 
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: BhamFred]
#275843
02/02/12 09:07 AM
02/02/12 09:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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Well proportioned buck age structures result in immature bucks being spared the rigors of the breeding period. Cook and Gray's Biology and Management of White-tailed Deer in AlabamaCan't a dose of lead accomplish the same result?
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Re: Cull buck question
[Re: Frankie]
#275861
02/02/12 09:31 AM
02/02/12 09:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,668
Central Alabama
QDMAV8R
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,668
Central Alabama
|
Most, if not all, free ranging whitetail bucks are culls. Genetically inferior in some form or fashion. So you have a few choices: 1) shoot em all, 2) shoot some of them, or 3) let them develop/grow to be the most they can be.
Unless you are high fencing and buying straws for insemination at $10,000+ a pop, your little trigger finger is not going to change the antler configurations in your neck of the woods.
A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. However, a mature deer has done all he is able to do and I can appreciate and respect that not all of them are going to be B&C, but are "trophies" none the less, regardless of antler configuration.
Cull, is a four letter word of meaningless significance in free ranging deer herds. so you know , this is what i consider a cull to be for my area . if i can help it i see no need for him to stay in the population . this is last year picture taken after season . http://bamahunter.com/102.JPG http://bamahunter.com/103.JPG That deer in the pics is not a young deer and definetly very mature. He might even be well past his prime and in decline. Look at that big toad body, the mass and beam length of that old warrior is "trophy class" to me. Now he will not score well, but he has lived to produce all he could be and I for one would consider him impressive, not a cull.
"Never met a deer that I didn't like" - QDMAV8R
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