Velvet
by Big Bore. 05/01/24 11:16 PM
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94 registered members (3bailey3, 10 POINT, Narrow Gap, Zbrann, TEM, crocker, Turkeyneck78, JA, Rockstar007, AuGrayghost, Vernon Tull, m97, dirtwrk, furnfeather, WDE, Ben Ward, Big AL 76, jawbone, Skullworks, Skinner, BCLC, sportrep, MarksOutdoors, FreeStateHunter, Fattyfireplug, BhamFred, AustinC, Mansfield, johnv, Paddlejon, oldbowhunter, CCC, hoggin, Sus scrofa Reduction Specialist, auman, click-boom, BOFF, Solothurn, bamacotton, BrentsFX4, Scout308, dawgdr, OutdoorsAL, Bustinbeards, woodduck, aucountry, bamabug, akbejeepin, Dixiepatriot, trlrdrdave, AlabamaSwamper, JustHunt, AJones, cartervj, BC_Reb, Trecker1, BearBranch, low wall, Big Al, Red Fox, Guru, RCHRR, HappyHunter, geeb1, hallb, coldtrail, Livintohunt19, 000buck, GomerPyle, Mbrock, Ridge Life, Thread Killer, Shane99, Rolloverdave, Mjh97, Deerslayer33, Buckwheat, rst87, Floorman1, HOWTON21, Lonster, Richard Cranium, Standbanger, NoHuntin, Bmyers142, quailman, blade, CNC, 6 invisible),
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2706446
01/15/19 08:45 AM
01/15/19 08:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,106 Chilton County
MarksOutdoors
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,106
Chilton County
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I dont think so. They both see much better than humans do at night, anyway. Being Crepuscular, it's just in their nature to move in low light conditions.
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2706454
01/15/19 08:56 AM
01/15/19 08:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,789 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,789
Awbarn, AL
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I’ve wondered about this too……This is just a theory of mine but what I think might happen is that the presence of abundant predators….whether it be human or coyotes…. may cause the deer to move less. The more a deer moves around in the open, the more it exposes itself to danger. Staying hid and still is where it feels the safest. I have no idea if this is actually happening or not but seems to me like it’s a possibility. The presence of “wolf” type predator would have to have some kind of an effect on them similar to how the heavy presence of a human one does.
Last edited by CNC; 01/15/19 08:56 AM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2706457
01/15/19 08:58 AM
01/15/19 08:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,783 Owens Xrds
AUwrestler
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,783
Owens Xrds
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Maybe not nocturnal, but it adds stress to the deer. Making them move slower, eat less and always be weary. You want peaceful stupid deer.
I believe that this is a practical world and that I can count only on what I earn. Therefore I believe in work, hard work. -George Petrie (1945)
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2706568
01/15/19 10:42 AM
01/15/19 10:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681 Slidell, La
perchjerker
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
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Hunting pressure or the presence of man turns deer nocturnal. For some reason, they don't like loud booms are being shot at. Go figure!
Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!
If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: perchjerker]
#2706727
01/15/19 01:33 PM
01/15/19 01:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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Hunting pressure or the presence of man turns deer nocturnal. For some reason, they don't like loud booms are being shot at. Go figure! Riding ATVs, constantly checking multiple cameras, target shooting, stomping all over the woods. Im always amused by the theory that coyotes somehow affect deer movement.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: Out back]
#2707242
01/15/19 10:27 PM
01/15/19 10:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 263 Alabama
AlabamaHuntress
Doe
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Doe
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 263
Alabama
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Hunting pressure or the presence of man turns deer nocturnal. For some reason, they don't like loud booms are being shot at. Go figure! Riding ATVs, constantly checking multiple cameras, target shooting, stomping all over the woods. Im always amused by the theory that coyotes somehow affect deer movement. 👍
Cooking wild game is my specialty 👌
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2707247
01/15/19 10:30 PM
01/15/19 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 N. Bama
257wbymag
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
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I've seen deer run coyotes, foxes, bobcats off all the time. Those critters don't bother a healthy deer
Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!! My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty I'm the paterfamilias
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2707290
01/15/19 11:08 PM
01/15/19 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52,239 Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
James
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52,239
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
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Only time i witnessed deer leave a food plot because of coyotes was when i hunted near Scotch mgt area.
Do not regret growing older, it's a privilege denied to many!
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2707331
01/15/19 11:44 PM
01/15/19 11:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,789 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,789
Awbarn, AL
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CNC, without me reading the whole article, can coyotes make deer nocturnal? I didn’t read the whole thing word for word but I don’t think it mentioned a change in nocturnal behavior. From what I gathered it was saying that coyotes would reduce how long deer fed and reduce how much space they used. It said that it effected what they called “vigilance”…..which I gather to mean how nervous and on alert the deer act. It seemed like according to them that it came from negative interactions over time just like with humans. So lets say you don’t have many yotes and one just passes through one day…the deer may very well not care much about it or be effected. But let’s say your property is covered up with yotes year round and the deer are constantly being harassed by them….then over time their behavior will change in response to it. This is my understanding of it. The older deer showed more of a reaction to the yotes presence than the young deer. One other thing I suspect may have an effect from one place to another is how much food the yotes have to eat from other sources and how much they aggressively pursue the local deer herd. I would bet that if they had plenty of other food sources available for the amount of yotes present in the area….then they wouldn’t try to mess with deer to much because trying to kill deer poses a pretty high risk for injury to them. The hungrier they get though, the more desperate they become and the more willing they are to risk it for a meal. I also hear people telling my about seeing packs of yotes chasing deer. That seems like the worst case scenario to me. A big pack of yotes constantly running around harassing the deer on your place day after day would suck.
Last edited by CNC; 01/15/19 11:51 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: 257wbymag]
#2707613
01/16/19 10:16 AM
01/16/19 10:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 263 Alabama
AlabamaHuntress
Doe
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Doe
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 263
Alabama
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I've seen deer run coyotes, foxes, bobcats off all the time. Those critters don't bother a healthy deer I have watched coyotes walk right by yearnings and does and neither doe nor fawn got spooked, they kept eating while the coyotes dug in rotted logs. They dont affect the deer like most hunters think they do. People are the reason deer become more nocturnal.
Last edited by AlabamaHuntress; 01/16/19 10:16 AM.
Cooking wild game is my specialty 👌
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2707626
01/16/19 10:25 AM
01/16/19 10:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 25,717 Locust Fork, Alabama
BC
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 25,717
Locust Fork, Alabama
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Coyotes won't hardly mess with a healthy adult deer unless they are in numbers. They are rough on fawns though and the fawns are your properties future.
My wife saw a spike in a green field at the beginning of rifle season and two coyotes came out and tried to surround it. The deer bolted and they chased it out of the field but returned a couple minutes later obviously not successful. I asked her why she didn't light them up and she said she didn't know if I wanted her to mess up a deer hunt over a coyote. I told her for future reference that any deer hunt that a coyote is spotted on automatically becomes a coyote hunt.
"Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters."
-- Archibald Rutledge
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2707671
01/16/19 11:07 AM
01/16/19 11:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,087 Your Lock-on
Whild_Bill
Crawfishing Asshat
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Crawfishing Asshat
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,087
Your Lock-on
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Nope. Humans make them go dark
We Just Know What Works For Us
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: AlabamaHuntress]
#2707763
01/16/19 12:30 PM
01/16/19 12:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 22,195 blount county alabama
jwalker77
OP
Pumpkin
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OP
Pumpkin
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 22,195
blount county alabama
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I've seen deer run coyotes, foxes, bobcats off all the time. Those critters don't bother a healthy deer I have watched coyotes walk right by yearnings and does and neither doe nor fawn got spooked, they kept eating while the coyotes dug in rotted logs. They dont affect the deer like most hunters think they do. People are the reason deer become more nocturnal. I have seen deer walk right past coyotes and coyotes walk right past deer and one not even look at the other myself. What im wondering about is kinda different. Say 5 cows die and are left to be consumed by coyotes and buzzards over a winter right in the center of the area you hunt, maybe 200acres, this would surely cause a spike in coyote population for that small area. Maybe the deer pays no attention to a single coyote but when theres several running around on a regular basis, I would assume the deers reaction would be different.
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: jwalker77]
#2707845
01/16/19 01:47 PM
01/16/19 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,789 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,789
Awbarn, AL
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Sometimes you have to consider things from a perspective other than just what you saw happen one time or haven’t ever seen, etc…..Just because you see a certain result in one area doesn’t automatically mean the same result will hold true for all other areas.
There’s a number different variable involved that may change from place to place that could effect what others see or don’t see. I agree that a healthy deer would probably not be a major food source for yotes because there’s just too much effort and too much risk for injury for them to try and take one down. However, I know for sure that coyotes will target weak deer and take them out. As quickly as I’ve seen them get on leg shots and other such hits we track where the deer was wounded but still alive for long periods after the shot….I’m pretty sure that they’re heavily targeting the weak deer in the herd and preying upon those deer in some areas. What I think is also very likely to be happening in areas like this is that the yotes will probably give chase to healthy deer for a little ways from time to time just to test it’s ability to get way and see if it’s a weak or injured one. I've been told by a number of hunters now about witnessing such. If the yotes are harassing the healthy deer in this manner then that’s where the possibility would exist for a change in deer behavior according to what the research article I posted reported finding.
Did anyone anybody read some of that article? Don’t take this as the gospel….I’m just giving a quick book report on what I read…..but from what I gathered, their findings showed that a change in individual deer behavior occurred over time and it was basically a function of how often each deer had a negative interaction with a yote or pack of yotes. It’s a learned behavior and I’d think that being chased by them would be a negative interactino. In the study, young deer that hadn’t lived long enough to have many of those negative interaction didn’t show the same response as the older ones. There are a number of different variables involved in this equation that could vary from place to place and affect the frequency of negative interactions the deer experience from one area to another.
So any and all deer populations are not just going to automatically be scared of yotes due to some type of natural fear from birth. They’re gonna develop it over time just depending on how often they may or may not get harassed. If a deer keeps having negative experiences, then they start perceiving the yotes as a threat and the presence of them can change their feeding and movement patterns. Since the frequency of negative interactions are influenced by several different variables….its possible to see completely different results from one area to another. If I’m understanding the article correctly then its just a matter of how the different variables in your area effect the total amount of negative experiences placed on the individuals in the herd. Just as a simple example. If you had very few coyotes with plenty to eat and a lot of deer…then maybe in this situation the yotes rarely chased and harassed deer and there just isn’t enough negative interactions on each individual for the deer to perceive them as a threat and show any behavioral change. On the other hand lets say that you have a lot of coyotes with a moderate sized deer herd… and maybe you’ve even seen yotes in packs chasing deer….In this situation each individual would likely experience many more negative experiences over time and start associating them with danger. Then they may change their patterns as a result.
I may be completely interpreting it wrong but that makes sense to me when you think about how they react to human pressure. Deer aren’t necessarily scared of humans across any and all situations. Its when they perceive us as a threat that they change behavior and go nocturnal. To me it seems logical that they go nocturnal because the thing they perceive as a threat is only present during the day.
Last edited by CNC; 01/16/19 02:06 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Deer and coyotes?
[Re: AlabamaHuntress]
#2707863
01/16/19 02:02 PM
01/16/19 02:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 906 upatree
rulebreaker
My head is in my ass.
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My head is in my ass.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 906
upatree
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I've seen deer run coyotes, foxes, bobcats off all the time. Those critters don't bother a healthy deer I have watched coyotes walk right by yearnings and does and neither doe nor fawn got spooked, they kept eating while the coyotes dug in rotted logs. They dont affect the deer like most hunters think they do. People are the reason deer become more nocturnal. A couple of years ago, I watched from a shooting house a large adult bobcat stalk and then charge a doe with a fawn in a greenfield. The doe absolutely turned inside out throwing a fit and attacked the bobcat kicking and blowing as the fawn loped off into the weeds. The cat quickly gave-up and went back the direction that it came from. Predators that live in the wild are looking for weakened prey. They can't afford to be injured or expend more energy than necessary for a meal. Opportunist more or less.
Don't go looking for TROUBLE, it'll find you soon enough!
There are old, wise men and then there are just old fools. The sooner you learn this, the wiser you will be.
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