So you would rather see someone go in there and spotlight deer with high powered rifles


Yes, because they will be able to get the job done very effectively, quickly, with more numbers lost from the population and at night without any media attention or fuss from people ... because DCNR already has done this in the past and should ramp it up.


"poach them"

A legally-hired group of snipers working for the state agency who hires it to do a population control job is not "poaching" anything.

Poaching is if you hunted someone's property, say in Wilcox County, and were cited by the LEOs for hunting without permission.

I agree 100%. I believe the State should take the necessary steps to get the herd below the carrying capacity of the habitat ASAP. After that, and only after that, I would like to see frequent public bow hunting allowed to help keep the population in check.

With the current herd at over-capacity, I just don't see a last-ditch-effort of a few weekend bow hunts being very effective at reducing the herd to acceptable levels. CD.

I could be wrong, but I'll bet it has something to do with liability and legalities. BHA members would be covered by an umbrella policy where non-members wouldn't have that coverage.

Just a guess.

Maybe you should call Gary Moody at (334) 242-3469 and tell him that you know more about the carrying capacity of Oak Mountain, than he does, and he's going about this thing all wrong.

Hell, he might hire you on the spot, to run the whole thing.

Hey thanks Outback for the number. I guess you still had it handy from your recent conversation about "Earn A Buck". Oh, that's right! You didn't call either.

It's OK, because 'ol Moody and staff really know what to do. They just have to make sure they're not stepping in a big steaming pile of public scrutiny when they make decisions.

For the record, just so we know where we stand...

Do you feel like Oak Mtn. is over populated with deer?

Do you feel like a few weekend BOW hunts are gonna make much of a difference?

Would you like to see some form of scheduled public hunting in the future?

Oh, BTW, here are your comments from your "Earn A Buck" thread...

"We are very slowly changing the mindset of hunters as more and more hunters and landowners learn the benefits of Deer, other wildlife and habitat management. We can eventually overcome the selfish nature that's been a staple of Alabama hunters for decades, but the biggest obsticle we face (now) is the current regime.
Fortunately many of them are approaching retirement and hopefully, God willing, for the sake of our hunting, there will be a clean house before too much longer. We need some leadership with the balls and the innovation to implement some real game management across the state. We need some leadership with less pride and more intelligence. Enough intelligence to, at least, recognize the obvious success of the technics used in other states. Enough integrity to put aside the "my way or the hiway" mentality and realize that you are not smarter or more enlightened than the guys running Ohio's Dept. of Conservation".

That said, do you really think I should call Gary? CD.

I've read this and can not believe what has been wrote.1st BHA is a non-profit org.And if you want to see where the money goes that BHA takes in all you have to do is look on www.alabamabowhunter.com and read the minutes of the board meeting and you will see!This year alone we Rasied $5323.00 for Big Brothers/Big Sisters,$1500.00 for the Shriner's!We also rasied money and worked the state final's for the NASP program and bought supply's to start new school for Nasp and money for the Childrens Hospital!And I know I'm leaving a bunch out!
It funny all the good that BHA has done get's covered up by the one black eye they got for wanting to keep cross-bow's out of archery season!And now were getting jump on for the State asking us to run these hunt's.
Is BHA perfect?No!But were tring to do our part in getting as many new people in the sport of Archery and Hunting so that we will gain the # of people hunting each year instead of the decline in # we are having now!
Now blast away!I know I'm going to get Rip a new one!But there was no way I could set by and watch something good get torn down!Good Day!RIP50

Fair enough, I guess we all get to thinking we can do something better.

Yes, I believe Oak Mountain is over populated with deer.

Yes, I do believe a few weekend BOW hunts (now that BHA is running it) are gonna make a difference.

Yes, I would like to see some form of scheduled public hunting in ALL of our state parks, as well as Forever Wild Lands, in the future.

Rip all I can say is congrats to you and BHA...

Me being upset has nothing to do with BHA...
I think they are a great OrG that I've thought about joining in the past.

My problem is that you must be a member of a org just to have a chance to hunt a PUBLIC land..therefore it's nolonger public...it is a BHA hunting club.
Yes I said club, I must pay dues to hunt my club land and it seems that If I want to continue to hunt this FORMER public land that I must pay dues to the BHA.

what a joke.

I don't have a problem with BHA running the OM hunts. The state doesn't want to have to devote resources (or "just can't") to it so who else would be more perfect to oversee and run the organized hunts?? The state (or the hunting public) CANNOT afford (the risks) to open OM up to anyone that wants to freely hunt OM unchecked. Some idiot would be found jacking up a tree hunting in someone's backyard and the news would be all over it!

BHA has to get its arms around this undertaking somehow. They need to know who you are if you're going to hunt OM under BHA's supervision.

I am not a member of BHA but I support having to be a member of BHA if you're going to hunt OM.

I'm sure there will be some ethics, rules, regulations and bow proficiency involved if you want to hunt OM and somehow, these requirements will need to be monitored.

Most all of the hunters on Aldeer.com as well as Alabama hunters are good people but it only takes one lawbreaking, unethical person (I won't call them a hunter) with a bow doing something stupidly unethical to ruin it for all of us.

We live by the rules of the majority...Obama proved that, unfortunately. The majority of Alabama citizens are not hunters so in a situation that is as much of a public stage as the OM hunt is, we need to make sure that only responsible hunters are allowed to hunt and the only way to do that is go through some type of screening and interviewing process.

I could almost agree to having to be a member of BHA to hunt, but that ain't the case. You have to be a member to apply for a chance to hunt . Lots of organizations require you to be a member to participate in their event on public property. For example, the U.S. Track and Field Association requires you to be a member to run in their sanctioned events, but durnit, you pay your money, you show up at an open event, you run. You might get smoked and eliminated in the early heats, but you get to participate. Here, you send in your application with your membership fee, you probably are not going to get selected, because BHA is going to know that you are not a serious bowhunter because if you were you would have already been a member of BHA, and whammo, presto, you don't get selected to hunt and you are still a member of an organization that you would not have joined in the first place but were forced to join for the opportunity to maybe, possibly be interviewed for a right to hunt on state property. That is the issue I, and apparently others, have with this gig.

BHA may do great things with their money, I give a lot of my time and money to charities; that is not why I would join a hunting organization.

I wonder what Oak Mountain did about insurance before BHA? Probably had to sign a waiver or something.

Well, I have been off hunting for a week and I can see ya'll have been having fun without me. Let me try to catch up and correct some of the misstatements.


Actually, you shoot the proficiency test first, if you pass, and then you apply for the hunt and join BHA.

antlerhunter,
The DCNR asked us to do this. You guys crack me up. You have no clue what is going on, you just ASSUME we are going to pick and choose. Ask anyone that has came out and see what they say.

It is NOT politics and buddies. In fact, I am really surprised at how many NEW and good (lots of years experiece and lots of kills) bowhunters have signed up and wanted to help out. Guess not everyone is interested in just complaining.

WMD,

The DCNR had to work very hard just to get acceptance from the local community to allow bowhunters in to start with. Oak Mountain is a VERY busy State Park, there are lots of user groups involved. Bowhunters are effective, acceptable, and safe. That is why they were chosen.


MarkBAMA,
I sure wish I had some of what you are drinking! LOL BHA membership is $15, we buy each member household a subscription to AON magazine. We donated about $4,000 to the Children's Hospital and about $5,000 to Big Brothers and Big Sisters. There are no paid officers or employees. The money donated to the charities came from 3D shoots. We are dang lucky to ever have over $500 in the checking account. The membership dues are used to purchase 3D targets and pay for the mag subscriptions. BHA is a non-profit. So, please quit with the we are making money comments. Unless of course, you just like to make ridiculous statements.

WIDGEON,

Well, not true. The money goes to the State Park for shutting down the park for the hunts. It doesn't go to the DCNR. Oak Mountain will charge each hunter $10 per hunt. Down from $50 last year. And in the past you had to puchase chances at $6 per. This year the application is free. The BHA membership is $15. So, it is much cheaper now. Funny, noone has commented on that.

SnapperSlapper,

Agenda? Are you serious? Just what agenda are you referring too? BHA was formed to promote bowhunting in Alabama. Are you against that?

I still have the red ass from 1991, sitting in an Ag Committee in Montgomery attempting to get the Handicapped Crossbow Bill off the ground along come BHA group of apx 15 to oppose... I took it personal even though we won... Still do... I would never join up with BHA, so I recon I won't get to hunt State Owned Public Land. Book

Book,

I have and am working to put the crossbow issue behind us. There are several hunters that will be chosen to hunt the Oak Mountain hunt and they will be hunting with crossbows. Seventeen years is a long time to hold a grudge against a good org on a single issue. Hope you will change your mind.

There are still many in BHA that think the crossbow is the antiChrist. LOL But, as time goes by the anger should fade and WE hunters need to work together.

There are alot of arguments on here based more on emotion than facts. Recommend you all do a little bit of research on the subject of Urban deer hunting/population control. You might find that the best run programs are a partnership between the state DNR equivalent and a strong bowhunting organization. The state park is public land and was not/is not "public hunting" land. BHA is giving you an opportunity (at much less cost than the state was previously charging-- do a little simple math) to be a part of the solution to an overpopulation problem. It seems a lot would rather moan and complain vice step up and help out.

David, I sat beside Riley Boykin Smith, in 2000, and helped him write the proposal to the state legislature that eventually got the crossbow regulations relaxed so that any medical doctor could write you a letter, which the DCNR commissioner would later sign, granting permission to use a crossbow. I was on the board of BHA at the time and had the full support of the membership. I don't know what hapened in 1991, but I can assure you that no one in BHA (While I was there) opposed the use of crossbows by handicapped persons.

Politics is a Crazy World... Way back in 91... I had never been involved in anything political other than voting... I joined up with a group The Alabama Handicapped Sportsmen after seeing a short spot on a local Tv station here in Bham. I went to a few meetings to discuss getting this thing off the ground and we were getting nowhere... Some Polition down around Eufalla was about to get set up the river, got behind another feller down that way and got a bill started to legalize the crossbow. We found out about the deal and meet with the Rep from Eufalla. I might be wrong but this guy was trying to get something positive on his record... Well anyway the first time we meet in the Ag Committee only about 1/2 of the state Reps show up, We have 3-5 boys from AHS show up and right before the first meeting the BHA guys come in 6-12 some all duded up, we know we are way outclassed. The thing gets defeated, but in comes the Rep from Eufalla who is not on this committee and gets the group od State Reps to meet back in a week and re-vote.... A week or two later we meet again, this time I think we only had 3-4 folks BHA had a bunch... The Rep from Eufalla shows up and openly tells the group he will support there bills if the help him with this one.... Several of the State Reps are with the BHA and tell the guy the won't go with him. We have open discussions where facts are brought out like deer will be getting killed at 300 yds with a crossbow... It was crazy, I had my say, and my message was you either for us or against us getting a chance to get back into the woods... Sometime in this process someone with the Consevation Dept. offers to give us a permit to hunt with a shotgun during bow season, I was against this due to the fact that No Hunting Club would like a feller gun hunting deer in bow season. We as AHS agreed this was not a very good option.... I remember asking the BHA why they would oppose this deal with the crossbow? I asked the lead mouth if he lost an arm what would he do and he says sit home till gun season.. I told the feller he didn't love it like I did.... Well my contribution did not add up to nothing.... The BHA had the spport of the Consevation Dept, we looked to be beat when one of the Reps from Bham asked the BHA how many black members they had, then asked how many black members we had. We had several they had none... The vote was close we had all the black reps and a couple of Reps that made deals with the Rep from Eufalla... I mean right before the vote a rep from somewhere asked the Eufalla guy if he was sure to help him with this certain bill, he said he would and the vote went our way... When the bill went to the floor I think we had only a couple votes against, something like 80 for it? I can't remember but it was very close to 100%.... Whats funny about this whole thing to me is the Original Crossbow Bill was very restrictive, It helped a few folks out, but alot were left out. The Bill didn't pass because the issue was discussed and the reps thought this was a good idea, or the Consevation Dept saw a need and helped... It passed only out of committee bacause a Rep from Eufalla was trying to stay out of the big house, and we had a few black members in AHS... Really I would never jion the BHA, but I know there are super folks in it.. The State Conservation Boys as the ones that should have been willing to help. How many deer do you think the first 200-500 handicapped crossbow permit holders killed? I know I have killed apx 50, I knew a bunch of fellers who had the permits, but never had bow hunted knew nothing much about it... I had no idea how screwed up politics was until my experience in Montgomery... When the new deal came out legalizing the crossbow without any discussion and was a suprise, even though I would have supported the deal, I could smell the backroom deals, and maybe some cash getting passed around... I do not hunt as much or as hard as I used to, I have been a few times this year. I never thought I could get burned out, but after 30 years of hunting I don't love it like I used to.... I like turkey hunting now more than bow season, and I would have never beieved that a few years back. Anyway thanks for helping some folks out Mr. Outback.... Book

Sounds like you were just as naive as I was, in the beginning.

It would completely baffle me how a good and honest idea good get so screwed up and lost in the enormity of totally ambiguous opposition.

I was happy to leave it behind and I've declined several invites to get back in the fight. Today I just want to go hunting.

Book,

I agree the system is gross. I will say this, BHA has grown and changed quite a bit since the early 90's. You would be surprised at all the good folks and great things we are doing now. We even have crossbow hunters as members and one is a life member. Attitudes change and people grow. The Oak Mountain hunt this year is a new twist on an existing hunt.

BHA is not making money on this deal. I assure you that our expenses will eat up the membership dues collected. And the hunt this year is cheaper than it was in years past.

If you want to take part in the hunt, please do. Don't let a single issue deter you from being part of a great org. God is the only perfect thing. The rest of us make mistakes and try to learn and grow. I am a Life Member in BHA, RMEF, NRA, AWF, etc.... I promise you, I don't agree with every step they take. But, I do support them for the long run.

Elkhunter, you da man!! I agree 100% with you!