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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632458
11/08/18 02:57 PM
11/08/18 02:57 PM
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Posts: 18,284
Clanton, AL
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Out back Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.

I happen to agree with you about that. That's why I keep saying that police are not the ones to blame here. The leftist morons passing these illegal laws are the blame.

Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632480
11/08/18 03:13 PM
11/08/18 03:13 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,630
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
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R_H_Clark  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,630
NW Alabama
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.


Yea,I've never met one yet I like. They all sound like you. You are the one jumping to conclusions.

Let me explain why this case is different and see if you can understand. I know it's hard for you but please try. The man was doing no one any harm in his own home when cops showed up and killed him. Does anything sound wrong about that to you?

Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632487
11/08/18 03:28 PM
11/08/18 03:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,865
Helena, AL
A
AU338MAG Offline
10 point
AU338MAG  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,865
Helena, AL
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.

Not a problem with police in particular, but a problem with ANY government agency overreaching and abusing the authority granted to them by the people they serve. History has shown that the abuse will progress. Today, they knock down your front door and take your guns. Tomorrow, they knock down your back door because they don't like what you are reading and they confiscate books. And if you don't like it , too bad, we're the big bad government. Either comply or die.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: R_H_Clark] #2632493
11/08/18 03:37 PM
11/08/18 03:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
C
chad1980 Offline
4 point
chad1980  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.


Yea,I've never met one yet I like. They all sound like you. You are the one jumping to conclusions.

Let me explain why this case is different and see if you can understand. I know it's hard for you but please try. The man was doing no one any harm in his own home when cops showed up and killed him. Does anything sound wrong about that to you?

How am I jumping to conclusions, I said let the case run its course and see from there. Comments like "Yea,I've never met one yet I like." Are usually made by just your common criminal that is always on the wrong side of the law.

How do you know the guy was innocent? How do you know the cops were guilty?

Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632498
11/08/18 03:44 PM
11/08/18 03:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Shotts Offline
6 point
Shotts  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.


Because you obviously do not understand the clear difference that these LEO's, were violating the constitution and infringing on an individuals rights without due process. Granted they likely did not, take part in the passing of the unconstitutional law which they were assigned to enforce but this does not give them a free pass either. They are sworn to uphold the constitution in almost all public service positions and if they do not possess the mental ability to understand the impacts of this oath and reject orders which clearly violate those "unalienable Rights" then they have no business being in the role of a public servant.

This is a slippery slope and it is all of our faults for allowing those rights to be "infringed" in the first place. Further it is very difficult for the average person to fight these violations once they begin because lawyers are expensive and take time, and if you try to fight with violence you are generally/eventually gunned down with superior numbers and fire power.

When I was faced with this I conceded defeat, and fought a 45 day legal battle because I was unwilling to loose all I had worked for by taking the violent path. I regret to this day not making it painful financially for the county and everyone involved in retaliation once I had won.

I can assure each of you that it can happen in Alabama far easier than you might think as it did to me over stupid Facebook drama. All it takes is a small town DA and a family member with a personal relationship with that DA and its done. The fact that I worked for the Defense Industry, had been through more background checks and vetting than our Secretary of State, have never had more than a speeding ticket had no bearing and wont for you either if you ever find yourself in the same situation.

Your rights will be violated first and questions and due process later, if you can afford it.

Last edited by Shotts; 11/08/18 03:47 PM.

Life is difficult
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: AU338MAG] #2632500
11/08/18 03:47 PM
11/08/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
C
chad1980 Offline
4 point
chad1980  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.

Not a problem with police in particular, but a problem with ANY government agency overreaching and abusing the authority granted to them by the people they serve. History has shown that the abuse will progress. Today, they knock down your front door and take your guns. Tomorrow, they knock down your back door because they don't like what you are reading and they confiscate books. And if you don't like it , too bad, we're the big bad government. Either comply or die.


If the cops are guilty of wrongfully shooting this guy they will be punished. Like any other case of cops killing anyone. Why is this case any different? Law is law, wrong or right. Facts are this, there are people out there that do not need guns, I think that has been proven. I do not have a clue how to stop this from happening, obviously this law that Florida has passed is going to have some issues. I am not near smart enough to figure that out, if it can even be figured out. For the mentally stable people out there, I want them to be able to get whatever weapon they want, without restrictions to protect themselves from all threats. Whenever someone starts talking about where to shoot someone with a vest on (not you) to kill, and how cops are all bad (not you), or talking nonsense comparing this event to the holocaust and nazis i have an issue with that. That is precisely the tactic used by liberals everyday. I have several friends that are LEO's and it burns my ass when BLM and Liberals play that game. I just never thought on Aldeer I would hear essentially the same rhetoric.

Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Out back] #2632503
11/08/18 03:51 PM
11/08/18 03:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,460
sw louisiana hunt Monroe co.
M
marshmud991 Online content
10 point
marshmud991  Online Content
10 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,460
sw louisiana hunt Monroe co.
Originally Posted by Out back
Originally Posted by chad1980
I do agree that this blanket law is ignorant. I wished there was a way to determine who has no need in having a gun better than this. Some people don't need to drive, some don't need to be around a chuckee cheese, and some people just do not need a firearm period.

When my father could no longer drive safely we took his keys. Wasn't easy, but we didn't ask the police to come take his keys, we did it.

As is the way it's done down here. If the family is concerned it's up to them to take measures to fix the situation. No us. WE DO NOT confiscated weapons unless stolen or used in a crime. As I said earlier, I will be unemployed before I step on someone's rights. PERIOD!!!


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Skullworks] #2632508
11/08/18 03:55 PM
11/08/18 03:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,490
Dallas County
jawbone Offline
Booner
jawbone  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,490
Dallas County
If anyone is interested, while Alabama law does not direct LE officers to confiscate firearms from someone who has had a valid Order of Protection issued against them, it does make it illegal for that person to possess a firearm.


Excuse the sanctimony.
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Shotts] #2632515
11/08/18 03:59 PM
11/08/18 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
C
chad1980 Offline
4 point
chad1980  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
Originally Posted by Shotts
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.


Because you obviously do not understand the clear difference that these LEO's, were violating the constitution and infringing on an individuals rights without due process. Granted they likely did not, take part in the passing of the unconstitutional law which they were assigned to enforce but this does not give them a free pass either. They are sworn to uphold the constitution in almost all public service positions and if they do not possess the mental ability to understand the impacts of this oath and reject orders which clearly violate those "unalienable Rights" then they have no business being in the role of a public servant.

This is a slippery slope and it is all of our faults for allowing those rights to be "infringed" in the first place. Further it is very difficult for the average person to fight these violations once they begin because lawyers are expensive and take time, and if you try to fight with violence you are generally/eventually gunned down with superior numbers and fire power.

When I was faced with this I conceded defeat, and fought a 45 day legal battle because I was unwilling to loose all I had worked for by taking the violent path. I regret to this day not making it painful financially for the county and everyone involved in retaliation once I had won.

I can assure each of you that it can happen in Alabama far easier than you might think as it did to me over stupid Facebook drama. All it takes is a small town DA and a family member with a personal relationship with that DA and its done. The fact that I worked for the Defense Industry, had been through more background checks and vetting than our Secretary of State, have never had more than a speeding ticket had no bearing and wont for you either if you ever find yourself in the same situation.

Your rights will be violated first and questions and due process later, if you can afford it.

So if an officer in Alabama arrest someone for marijuana possession in their own home, do they have business being a public servant? Or are they doing their job as prescribed to them by the state, city, or county in which they serve. Right wrong or different we all have laws to adhere to. If we dont like them we vote people out, in or fight through the courts. Does that suck yes, but thats just the way it is.

Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632550
11/08/18 04:28 PM
11/08/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Shotts Offline
6 point
Shotts  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Originally Posted by chad1980
Originally Posted by Shotts
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.


Because you obviously do not understand the clear difference that these LEO's, were violating the constitution and infringing on an individuals rights without due process. Granted they likely did not, take part in the passing of the unconstitutional law which they were assigned to enforce but this does not give them a free pass either. They are sworn to uphold the constitution in almost all public service positions and if they do not possess the mental ability to understand the impacts of this oath and reject orders which clearly violate those "unalienable Rights" then they have no business being in the role of a public servant.

This is a slippery slope and it is all of our faults for allowing those rights to be "infringed" in the first place. Further it is very difficult for the average person to fight these violations once they begin because lawyers are expensive and take time, and if you try to fight with violence you are generally/eventually gunned down with superior numbers and fire power.

When I was faced with this I conceded defeat, and fought a 45 day legal battle because I was unwilling to loose all I had worked for by taking the violent path. I regret to this day not making it painful financially for the county and everyone involved in retaliation once I had won.

I can assure each of you that it can happen in Alabama far easier than you might think as it did to me over stupid Facebook drama. All it takes is a small town DA and a family member with a personal relationship with that DA and its done. The fact that I worked for the Defense Industry, had been through more background checks and vetting than our Secretary of State, have never had more than a speeding ticket had no bearing and wont for you either if you ever find yourself in the same situation.

Your rights will be violated first and questions and due process later, if you can afford it.

So if an officer in Alabama arrest someone for marijuana possession in their own home, do they have business being a public servant? Or are they doing their job as prescribed to them by the state, city, or county in which they serve. Right wrong or different we all have laws to adhere to. If we dont like them we vote people out, in or fight through the courts. Does that suck yes, but thats just the way it is.


Last time I checked the right to smoke Marijuana wasn't specifically listed in the bill of rights with the shall not be infringed disclaimer. Surely you are smart enough to see the difference in that pitiful attempt at a comparison. In turn to your argument, if that same officer entered said individuals home without a warrant to make that arrest then no they should not be a public servant as they have perpetrated an unconstitutional search in violation of the 4th amendment.

Last edited by Shotts; 11/08/18 04:30 PM.

Life is difficult
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: jawbone] #2632556
11/08/18 04:37 PM
11/08/18 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 29,476
Land of the Free
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doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
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Land of the Free
Originally Posted by jawbone
If anyone is interested, while Alabama law does not direct LE officers to confiscate firearms from someone who has had a valid Order of Protection issued against them, it does make it illegal for that person to possess a firearm.

But, only after he has had a chance to defend himself in court. An ex parte PFA doesn’t disqualify was like you from possessing a gun.

Also, a DA isn’t involved in PFAs in Alabama unless there is a pending criminal charge. Otherwise, it is a civil issue. Either way, a PFA is issued by a judge.


"I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome while trying to succeed." Booker T. Washington
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: jawbone] #2632564
11/08/18 04:44 PM
11/08/18 04:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Shotts Offline
6 point
Shotts  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Originally Posted by jawbone
If anyone is interested, while Alabama law does not direct LE officers to confiscate firearms from someone who has had a valid Order of Protection issued against them, it does make it illegal for that person to possess a firearm.


Agreed, and I am much more informed on this now but, when it was sprung on me at the time that was not the case (Friday night after returning from a two week field test I didn't know what was going on and was blind sided). The officer told me when serving me that my firearms would be leaving with them, at that point I had two choices comply or fight. I could have easily won the initial fight and likely the second battle but would have ultimately lost that war.

Jawbone, I am sure you can clarify this better than I can but and it might benefit others here if ever faced with a PFA. Based on my understanding without a warrant the state can not search for any firearms in connection with a PFA and it is more voluntary compliance? Also you may surrender them within 24 hours to a legal/suitable "guardian" so they are no longer in your possession until the PFA is suspended. Further, you are entitled a court hearing within 10 days to perfect a PFA or it expires ( yet this is impossible to get due to the court backlogs and if your firearms are surrendered the Sheriff will not return them until the court has ruled despite this being the state statue clearing stating the PFA expires if not perfected in 10 days). If you found guilty of violating a PFA it caries a minimum sentence of 40 years or something like that in Alabama?

Again a mother-in-law who is redecorating the assistant DA's house in the middle of a divorce is all it takes.



Last edited by Shotts; 11/08/18 05:29 PM.

Life is difficult
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: jawbone] #2632565
11/08/18 04:45 PM
11/08/18 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Shotts Offline
6 point
Shotts  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Originally Posted by jawbone
If anyone is interested, while Alabama law does not direct LE officers to confiscate firearms from someone who has had a valid Order of Protection issued against them, it does make it illegal for that person to possess a firearm.


This is the case even with a temporary PFA prior to a court hearing, and requires no burden of proof of threat, violence, or harm. A female claiming she feels threatened is enough for a PFA.

In my instance I had not seen my wife for two weeks and the threat originated from me telling her I was turning her phone off because I had tried to call my children 15 times over 3 days with no answer.

Last edited by Shotts; 11/08/18 04:47 PM.

Life is difficult
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Skullworks] #2632566
11/08/18 04:48 PM
11/08/18 04:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 29,476
Land of the Free
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doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Land of the Free
Violating a PFA in Alabama is a class A misdemeanor.


"I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome while trying to succeed." Booker T. Washington
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632576
11/08/18 05:02 PM
11/08/18 05:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,533
enterprise coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
The Most Dangerous Guy on the Forum
goodman_hunter  Offline
The Most Dangerous Guy on the Forum
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,533
enterprise coffee county
Originally Posted by chad1980
I have several friends that are LEO's .


I bet they got the shiniest boots on the force too


Killemaw Kennels
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Skullworks] #2632616
11/08/18 05:40 PM
11/08/18 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,490
Dallas County
jawbone Offline
Booner
jawbone  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,490
Dallas County
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by jawbone
If anyone is interested, while Alabama law does not direct LE officers to confiscate firearms from someone who has had a valid Order of Protection issued against them, it does make it illegal for that person to possess a firearm.

But, only after he has had a chance to defend himself in court. An ex parte PFA doesn’t disqualify was like you from possessing a gun.

Also, a DA isn’t involved in PFAs in Alabama unless there is a pending criminal charge. Otherwise, it is a civil issue. Either way, a PFA is issued by a judge.


Why I included the word "valid", meaning one issued by a judge after a hearing.

Shotts, I am far from knowing all about them as the law was passed towards the end of my career so I never had to enforce the firearm provision, but I distinctly remember the DA that explained it to everyone emphasizing the fact that it has to be valid meaning from a judge and after a hearing or at least the subject of the order has had a chance for a hearing.


Excuse the sanctimony.
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: jawbone] #2632641
11/08/18 06:03 PM
11/08/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
Shotts Offline
6 point
Shotts  Offline
6 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,026
Hamilton/Auburn
My occurrence was Ex Parte with no criminal charge or act of violence at all I hadn't seen either party in the prior two weeks.

It was prepared by the assistant DA and signed by the judge at (10 pm on a Friday night) the FIL was remodeling the ADA's house at the time and the judge was a family friend with the MIL. The MIL drove to the judges house and threw a hysterical fit to convince him to sign it (he told my attorney this when it went to court and was dismissed with prejudice what ever that truly means)

The Ex Parte PFA included verbiage for surrender of firearms (I will have to read the exact language as that's been 3 years) and the deputies enforced it I gave them key to my safe and watched as they removed 38 firearms and placed them all in the back seat of a Tahoe one on top of the other (heck I have pictures to document it).

This was especially interesting come Monday when the State Department was informed, along with the ATF and DOD EOD which I was supporting at the time as a licensed handler for each.


Last edited by Shotts; 11/08/18 06:05 PM.

Life is difficult
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Skullworks] #2632667
11/08/18 06:36 PM
11/08/18 06:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,760
behind my Dillon
D
dave260rem! Offline
14 point
dave260rem!  Offline
14 point
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,760
behind my Dillon
Patience. Bad laws make for bad acts. Somewhere along the way the court system will correct the bad law may take 13 years or so but it will be corrected. Heard a fellow named Jordan say to practice regular and keep a cool head when it was rough. Single man don't stand much of a chance against several trained shooters,but let that single man have friends with rifles things change quickly.


Aldeer unoffical powder burner.
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: chad1980] #2632753
11/08/18 07:48 PM
11/08/18 07:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,865
Helena, AL
A
AU338MAG Offline
10 point
AU338MAG  Offline
10 point
A
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,865
Helena, AL
Originally Posted by chad1980
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Originally Posted by chad1980
I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different.

Not a problem with police in particular, but a problem with ANY government agency overreaching and abusing the authority granted to them by the people they serve. History has shown that the abuse will progress. Today, they knock down your front door and take your guns. Tomorrow, they knock down your back door because they don't like what you are reading and they confiscate books. And if you don't like it , too bad, we're the big bad government. Either comply or die.


If the cops are guilty of wrongfully shooting this guy they will be punished. Like any other case of cops killing anyone. Why is this case any different? Law is law, wrong or right. Facts are this, there are people out there that do not need guns, I think that has been proven. I do not have a clue how to stop this from happening, obviously this law that Florida has passed is going to have some issues. I am not near smart enough to figure that out, if it can even be figured out. For the mentally stable people out there, I want them to be able to get whatever weapon they want, without restrictions to protect themselves from all threats. Whenever someone starts talking about where to shoot someone with a vest on (not you) to kill, and how cops are all bad (not you), or talking nonsense comparing this event to the holocaust and nazis i have an issue with that. That is precisely the tactic used by liberals everyday. I have several friends that are LEO's and it burns my ass when BLM and Liberals play that game. I just never thought on Aldeer I would hear essentially the same rhetoric.

You're still missing the point. The police were acting under the authority of a law in contradiction with our constitution. The DA, who must bring charges in the case, is probably one of the libturds who support the law and the action taken by the police. The likelihood of charges being filed is ZERO.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law [Re: Skullworks] #2633186
11/09/18 08:48 AM
11/09/18 08:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
C
chad1980 Offline
4 point
chad1980  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 766
Moody, Al
Was there a court order to confiscate the guns? These confiscations happen in Alabama as well.

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