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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: goodman_hunter]
#2633189
11/09/18 09:51 AM
11/09/18 09:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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I have several friends that are LEO's . I bet they got the shiniest boots on the force too What does that even mean? They dont work? A couple of them happen to be SRO's meaning they help to ensure the safety of my kids and the children of others on a daily basis.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Shotts]
#2633196
11/09/18 09:55 AM
11/09/18 09:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with LEO's on here. Anytime a LEO pops anyone else we all run to their defense, and want to wait for the facts to come out. Not in this case. Not sure why this is any different. Because you obviously do not understand the clear difference that these LEO's, were violating the constitution and infringing on an individuals rights without due process. Granted they likely did not, take part in the passing of the unconstitutional law which they were assigned to enforce but this does not give them a free pass either. They are sworn to uphold the constitution in almost all public service positions and if they do not possess the mental ability to understand the impacts of this oath and reject orders which clearly violate those "unalienable Rights" then they have no business being in the role of a public servant. This is a slippery slope and it is all of our faults for allowing those rights to be "infringed" in the first place. Further it is very difficult for the average person to fight these violations once they begin because lawyers are expensive and take time, and if you try to fight with violence you are generally/eventually gunned down with superior numbers and fire power. When I was faced with this I conceded defeat, and fought a 45 day legal battle because I was unwilling to loose all I had worked for by taking the violent path. I regret to this day not making it painful financially for the county and everyone involved in retaliation once I had won. I can assure each of you that it can happen in Alabama far easier than you might think as it did to me over stupid Facebook drama. All it takes is a small town DA and a family member with a personal relationship with that DA and its done. The fact that I worked for the Defense Industry, had been through more background checks and vetting than our Secretary of State, have never had more than a speeding ticket had no bearing and wont for you either if you ever find yourself in the same situation. Your rights will be violated first and questions and due process later, if you can afford it. So if an officer in Alabama arrest someone for marijuana possession in their own home, do they have business being a public servant? Or are they doing their job as prescribed to them by the state, city, or county in which they serve. Right wrong or different we all have laws to adhere to. If we dont like them we vote people out, in or fight through the courts. Does that suck yes, but thats just the way it is. Last time I checked the right to smoke Marijuana wasn't specifically listed in the bill of rights with the shall not be infringed disclaimer. Surely you are smart enough to see the difference in that pitiful attempt at a comparison. In turn to your argument, if that same officer entered said individuals home without a warrant to make that arrest then no they should not be a public servant as they have perpetrated an unconstitutional search in violation of the 4th amendment. Is a confiscation warrant not a warrant, no matter if you feel it is wrong or not. It is the damn law until something else is changed. That is my point, just because you had some weird/bad experience with something like this, does not give you the right to be the subject matter expert on all of them. Hell maybe you are right, maybe the cops didnt need to shoot the guy, I dont know because I dont know the whole story. Unless someone on Aldeer happened to have been there at the time i doubt they know they story either. Let the damn facts come out and then point the finger.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: chad1980]
#2633199
11/09/18 09:58 AM
11/09/18 09:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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Was there a court order to confiscate the guns? These confiscations happen in Alabama as well. If that happens, without due process (as the specific case here) then the officials and/or officers involved are likely to up in jail themselves. Or at a minimum, unemployed.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Out back]
#2633263
11/09/18 10:55 AM
11/09/18 10:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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Was there a court order to confiscate the guns? These confiscations happen in Alabama as well. If that happens, without due process (as the specific case here) then the officials and/or officers involved are likely to up in jail themselves. Or at a minimum, unemployed. So I guess I am not seeing something in the article. These cops took it up on themselves to just go and get the guns without the order of the court?
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: chad1980]
#2633286
11/09/18 11:13 AM
11/09/18 11:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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Was there a court order to confiscate the guns? These confiscations happen in Alabama as well. If that happens, without due process (as the specific case here) then the officials and/or officers involved are likely to up in jail themselves. Or at a minimum, unemployed. So I guess I am not seeing something in the article. These cops took it up on themselves to just go and get the guns without the order of the court? Chad, you're missing the whole point. You gotta go past the court order, here. A court order isn't due process. The red flag law, in the state of Maryland, by way of it's implementation denies one due process. Look back at the recent Kavanaugh hearing. The man, and his family, was virtually tried and convicted on mere accusation, somebody said.... And bam he's suddenly guilty. Now go back to Maryland, this man's niece said he could be dangerous, so a judge signs an order to effectively steal all his guns. He is immediately presumed guilty, with no evidence, given no chance to face his accuser, and no presumption of innocence (a fundamental American right) and gets understandably irritated when the police show up to violate his constitutional civil rights.
Last edited by Out back; 11/09/18 11:13 AM.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Skullworks]
#2633290
11/09/18 11:18 AM
11/09/18 11:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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Chad, let me ask you this.
What if someone saw you roll through a stop sign, on your way home, after a 36 hour shift?
That person goes to a judge and says, "That Chad fella is too unstable to drive, he shouldn't have a truck".
So the judge issues a court order and two cops come to your door and demand your truck keys.
Would you just hand them over, and go cheerfully give thousands of dollars to a lawyer to prove you really are stable enough to own a truck?
Last edited by Out back; 11/09/18 11:19 AM.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Out back]
#2633291
11/09/18 11:20 AM
11/09/18 11:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,057
North AL
AU338MAG
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,057
North AL
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Was there a court order to confiscate the guns? These confiscations happen in Alabama as well. If that happens, without due process (as the specific case here) then the officials and/or officers involved are likely to up in jail themselves. Or at a minimum, unemployed. So I guess I am not seeing something in the article. These cops took it up on themselves to just go and get the guns without the order of the court? Chad, you're missing the whole point. You gotta go past the court order, here. A court order isn't due process. The red flag law, in the state of Maryland, by way of it's implementation denies one due process. Look back at the recent Kavanaugh hearing. The man, and his family, was virtually tried and convicted on mere accusation, somebody said.... And bam he's suddenly guilty. Now go back to Maryland, this man's niece said he could be dangerous, so a judge signs an order to effectively steal all his guns. He is immediately presumed guilty, with no evidence, given no chance to face his accuser, and no presumption of innocence (a fundamental American right) and gets understandably irritated when the police show up to violate his constitutional civil rights. He can't understand outback. If they passed a law which made Chad1980 illegal he would be ok with it because its the law, even though such a law would be unconstitutional. Due process is abridged by the government a lot. If they think you're dirty, they can seize your assets and shut down your business until if and when they can build a case against you. The gun confiscation process being pushed by some is just another step in the erosion of our liberties. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN.
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Molon Labe
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Skullworks]
#2633324
11/09/18 11:48 AM
11/09/18 11:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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I didnt say the damn law was right or even that i agree with it. I got upset when people started talking about shooting cops without even knowing the entire story. It struck a nerve with me when one moron starts giving lessons about shooting at people with a vest on, without even knowing the full story. I would not be ok with an unjust law, but i sure as hell wouldnt go to taking up arms against a bunch cops that come to my door. I too would let that go through due process and then handle all of it after that. That is my point.
Last edited by chad1980; 11/09/18 11:49 AM.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Out back]
#2633327
11/09/18 11:53 AM
11/09/18 11:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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Chad, let me ask you this.
What if someone saw you roll through a stop sign, on your way home, after a 36 hour shift?
That person goes to a judge and says, "That Chad fella is too unstable to drive, he shouldn't have a truck".
So the judge issues a court order and two cops come to your door and demand your truck keys.
Would you just hand them over, and go cheerfully give thousands of dollars to a lawyer to prove you really are stable enough to own a truck? I would not be cheerful about fighting that, however that is not the law as of now so we dont have to worry about that. I sure as hell would not try to fight with the police over a court decision. That is a sure fire way to end up in more trouble. No different than if I get wrongfully accused of murdering someone. If I am innocent you think I am going act like a damn idiot and start fighting. Hell no I am going to go down to the station and let them know what is going on...Its not real difficult.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: chad1980]
#2633429
11/09/18 01:46 PM
11/09/18 01:46 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R_H_Clark
Leupold Pro Staff
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Leupold Pro Staff
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
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I didnt say the damn law was right or even that i agree with it. I got upset when people started talking about shooting cops without even knowing the entire story. It struck a nerve with me when one moron starts giving lessons about shooting at people with a vest on, without even knowing the full story. I would not be ok with an unjust law, but i sure as hell wouldnt go to taking up arms against a bunch cops that come to my door. I too would let that go through due process and then handle all of it after that. That is my point.
Nobody here is suggesting that when cops show up,they need to be shot on sight. What we are talking about is that at some point when our rights are taken away, we will act. It won't matter at all if the one taking away those rights cower behind the excuse of "I was only doing my job."
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: chad1980]
#2633443
11/09/18 02:04 PM
11/09/18 02:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,057
North AL
AU338MAG
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,057
North AL
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I agree with that, but no one knows the facts behind this case. There were several ridiculous comments about something that no one knows a thing about. All I am saying is let the facts come out and then make your judgement. As we do any other time cops have to take a life. This guy could have been a damn nut job. Cops could have been nut jobs. No one knows at this point. Why did the cops have to take his life? You asked the question and it is at the crux of this whole issue. THE COPS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE TO INSTIGATE THE PROBLEM!
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Molon Labe
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: AU338MAG]
#2633444
11/09/18 02:06 PM
11/09/18 02:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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I agree with that, but no one knows the facts behind this case. There were several ridiculous comments about something that no one knows a thing about. All I am saying is let the facts come out and then make your judgement. As we do any other time cops have to take a life. This guy could have been a damn nut job. Cops could have been nut jobs. No one knows at this point. Why did the cops have to take his life? You asked the question and it is at the crux of this whole issue. THE COPS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE TO INSTIGATE THE PROBLEM! So the cops just formed a posse and went to this guys house to confiscate his guns?
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: chad1980]
#2633488
11/09/18 03:01 PM
11/09/18 03:01 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R_H_Clark
Leupold Pro Staff
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Leupold Pro Staff
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
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I agree with that, but no one knows the facts behind this case. There were several ridiculous comments about something that no one knows a thing about. All I am saying is let the facts come out and then make your judgement. As we do any other time cops have to take a life. This guy could have been a damn nut job. Cops could have been nut jobs. No one knows at this point. Why did the cops have to take his life? You asked the question and it is at the crux of this whole issue. THE COPS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE TO INSTIGATE THE PROBLEM! So the cops just formed a posse and went to this guys house to confiscate his guns? I agree with that, but no one knows the facts behind this case. There were several ridiculous comments about something that no one knows a thing about. All I am saying is let the facts come out and then make your judgement. As we do any other time cops have to take a life. This guy could have been a damn nut job. Cops could have been nut jobs. No one knows at this point. Why did the cops have to take his life? You asked the question and it is at the crux of this whole issue. THE COPS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE TO INSTIGATE THE PROBLEM! So the cops just formed a posse and went to this guys house to confiscate his guns? This case aside,cause I never was talking specifically about it anyway. Who do you think would come to take away all guns if that order came down? Would those guys just be innocently following orders? Would you resist in that situation in any way?
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: R_H_Clark]
#2633512
11/09/18 03:20 PM
11/09/18 03:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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I agree with that, but no one knows the facts behind this case. There were several ridiculous comments about something that no one knows a thing about. All I am saying is let the facts come out and then make your judgement. As we do any other time cops have to take a life. This guy could have been a damn nut job. Cops could have been nut jobs. No one knows at this point. Why did the cops have to take his life? You asked the question and it is at the crux of this whole issue. THE COPS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE TO INSTIGATE THE PROBLEM! So the cops just formed a posse and went to this guys house to confiscate his guns? I agree with that, but no one knows the facts behind this case. There were several ridiculous comments about something that no one knows a thing about. All I am saying is let the facts come out and then make your judgement. As we do any other time cops have to take a life. This guy could have been a damn nut job. Cops could have been nut jobs. No one knows at this point. Why did the cops have to take his life? You asked the question and it is at the crux of this whole issue. THE COPS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE TO INSTIGATE THE PROBLEM! So the cops just formed a posse and went to this guys house to confiscate his guns? This case aside,cause I never was talking specifically about it anyway. Who do you think would come to take away all guns if that order came down? Would those guys just be innocently following orders? Would you resist in that situation in any way? If I am at home alone and I am confronted by badge toting, police car driving officers, I would not open the door with a gun in my hand I can assure you of that. If a bunch of random strangers show up and are demanding my guns with no badge, or proper ID there is no way I just hand over guns. I would not even open the door. I would prepare for whatever happened, but first thing I would do is call the police if a bunch of strangers were at my door with no ID and demanding I open the door.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: jlbuc10]
#2633514
11/09/18 03:20 PM
11/09/18 03:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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As I read it the guns are temporarily removed until this guy can be deemed non threatening. Then he gets his due process and if everything is on the up and up he gets his guns back? Same way it is in Alabama.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: chad1980]
#2633523
11/09/18 03:32 PM
11/09/18 03:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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As I read it the guns are temporarily removed until this guy can be deemed non threatening. Then he gets his due process and if everything is on the up and up he gets his guns back? Same way it is in Alabama. No, it is not. Alabama has no such law. The PFA previously discussed here, was not valid and I suspect (what's not being discussed here) there's legal action facing those involved.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Man Killed by Police following Red Flag law
[Re: Out back]
#2633524
11/09/18 03:34 PM
11/09/18 03:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
chad1980
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
Moody, Al
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As I read it the guns are temporarily removed until this guy can be deemed non threatening. Then he gets his due process and if everything is on the up and up he gets his guns back? Same way it is in Alabama. No, it is not. Alabama has no such law. The PFA previously discussed here, was not valid and I suspect (what's not being discussed here) there's legal action facing those involved. I can tell you that if you threaten someone with a weapon and it gets to the right person your guns can be taken away until your court date.
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