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Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558637
08/22/18 10:33 AM
08/22/18 10:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
I hesitate to dispute the chicken litter attitude, as many of y'all have expressed its detrimental effects on turkeys.
But I've used chicken litter for years and never noticed an effect on turkey population.
What's the deal?


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Ben2] #2558652
08/22/18 10:47 AM
08/22/18 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,965
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
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C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,965
Round ‘bout there
Originally Posted by Ben2
Originally Posted by Tailwalk7


Keep the 45 day season

Keep the bag limit

Outlaw Decoys ( except youth season)

Outlaw blinds (except youth season)

Then the population will flourish.


And do away with youth season, Just take your kids with you when you hunt.


And do away with camouflage.

Outlaw scopes or optics of any kind on guns or rangefinders.

Outlaw any ammunition except standard lead shot. No TSS, no hybrids, no souped-up loads.

Outlaw any kind of calls except a box call, scratch box or tube.

Outlaw rubber boots, snake boots or anything other than black brogans, khaki pants and a plaid (green) shirt.

Outlaw any cell phone apps with maps or navigation aids of any kind including land lines.

Let's go back to the 1970s or earlier. We'll be up to our necks in turkeys in just a season or two.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558653
08/22/18 10:47 AM
08/22/18 10:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
North40R Offline
14 point
North40R  Offline
14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
Originally Posted by Out back
I hesitate to dispute the chicken litter attitude, as many of y'all have expressed its detrimental effects on turkeys.
But I've used chicken litter for years and never noticed an effect on turkey population.
What's the deal?



Chicken litter that is handled properly has no effect on turkeys. Chicken litter that is spead without allowing it to go through the proper heat cycle spreads disease.

I've seen first hand places that had thriving turkey populations go to nothing after chicken litter was spread.


Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: North40R] #2558656
08/22/18 10:49 AM
08/22/18 10:49 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,571
Behind you
Avengedsevenfold Offline
10 point
Avengedsevenfold  Offline
10 point
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,571
Behind you
Originally Posted by North40R
Originally Posted by Out back
I hesitate to dispute the chicken litter attitude, as many of y'all have expressed its detrimental effects on turkeys.
But I've used chicken litter for years and never noticed an effect on turkey population.
What's the deal?



Chicken litter that is handled properly has no effect on turkeys. Chicken litter that is spead without allowing it to go through the proper heat cycle spreads disease.

I've seen first hand places that had thriving turkey populations go to nothing after chicken litter was spread.


I’ve seen it have detrimental effects as well


Carrying a gun isn't comfortable; but at times it is comforting

"Cause the cause for the pause you think you see is really concentration on the steel” NonPoint
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Clem] #2558663
08/22/18 10:57 AM
08/22/18 10:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by Ben2
Originally Posted by Tailwalk7


Keep the 45 day season

Keep the bag limit

Outlaw Decoys ( except youth season)

Outlaw blinds (except youth season)

Then the population will flourish.


And do away with youth season, Just take your kids with you when you hunt.


And do away with camouflage.

Outlaw scopes or optics of any kind on guns or rangefinders.

Outlaw any ammunition except standard lead shot. No TSS, no hybrids, no souped-up loads.

Outlaw any kind of calls except a box call, scratch box or tube.

Outlaw rubber boots, snake boots or anything other than black brogans, khaki pants and a plaid (green) shirt.

Outlaw any cell phone apps with maps or navigation aids of any kind including land lines.

Let's go back to the 1970s or earlier. We'll be up to our necks in turkeys in just a season or two.

I'm in.
I approve this message.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: North40R] #2558665
08/22/18 10:58 AM
08/22/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by North40R
Originally Posted by Out back
I hesitate to dispute the chicken litter attitude, as many of y'all have expressed its detrimental effects on turkeys.
But I've used chicken litter for years and never noticed an effect on turkey population.
What's the deal?



Chicken litter that is handled properly has no effect on turkeys. Chicken litter that is spead without allowing it to go through the proper heat cycle spreads disease.

I've seen first hand places that had thriving turkey populations go to nothing after chicken litter was spread.

Okay that makes sense.
What I use is a processed fertilizer made from chicken litter.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Out back] #2558683
08/22/18 11:17 AM
08/22/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
North40R Offline
14 point
North40R  Offline
14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
Originally Posted by Out back
Originally Posted by North40R
Originally Posted by Out back
I hesitate to dispute the chicken litter attitude, as many of y'all have expressed its detrimental effects on turkeys.
But I've used chicken litter for years and never noticed an effect on turkey population.
What's the deal?



Chicken litter that is handled properly has no effect on turkeys. Chicken litter that is spead without allowing it to go through the proper heat cycle spreads disease.

I've seen first hand places that had thriving turkey populations go to nothing after chicken litter was spread.

Okay that makes sense.
What I use is a processed fertilizer made from chicken litter.



What we're talking about is chicken house owners selling the litter for fertilizer and hauling it directly from the chicken houses during cleaning and spreading it on fields. Most of the time you can follow them from the field directly back to the chicken houses by the wet litter running out of the trucks.


Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558686
08/22/18 11:24 AM
08/22/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
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Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
I kill turkeys off farm land that's been chicken littered for 20 years.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: 257wbymag] #2558692
08/22/18 11:34 AM
08/22/18 11:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by 257wbymag
I kill turkeys off farm land that's been chicken littered for 20 years.

That's why I'm skeptical of this "research".
I haven't personally experienced any negative impacts from chicken litter.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: 257wbymag] #2558791
08/22/18 01:19 PM
08/22/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
North40R Offline
14 point
North40R  Offline
14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
Originally Posted by 257wbymag
I kill turkeys off farm land that's been chicken littered for 20 years.



Is it processed or scattered straight from the houses?


Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558859
08/22/18 02:00 PM
08/22/18 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
It's both. Depends on crop timing. About half is piled from spring to fall and then a bunch in spring comes straight from the house


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558910
08/22/18 02:32 PM
08/22/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
North40R Offline
14 point
North40R  Offline
14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
So you're using it on crops. Are you discing it into fields for row crops?

What I'm talking about is spread onto pastures that are grazed or hayfields. It's never worked into the ground.


Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558919
08/22/18 02:37 PM
08/22/18 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,140
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,140
Right behind you
I’ve seen it firsthand too. Places that had turkeys for decades go to nearly nothing with chicken litter applications straight from the house. I would be skeptical if I hadn’t seen it.

Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558934
08/22/18 02:47 PM
08/22/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7 Offline OP
Booner
Southwood7  Offline OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...

Matt, Has the chicken litter issue been discussed amongst those in the DCNR? Are there any studies being done, or in the works on the effects of chicken litter in wild turkeys?



The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558988
08/22/18 03:35 PM
08/22/18 03:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,752
Lower AL
K
k bush Offline
12 point
k bush  Offline
12 point
K
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,752
Lower AL
Originally Posted by Southwood7

Matt, Has the chicken litter issue been discussed amongst those in the DCNR? Are there any studies being done, or in the works on the effects of chicken litter in wild turkeys?



I'm thinking there was a study done by Miss. State on this, not sure. I've heard several others mention it but have never seen any published info.


"Cull" is just another four letter word...
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2558992
08/22/18 03:37 PM
08/22/18 03:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 79
SC
W
Wambaw Offline
spike
Wambaw  Offline
spike
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 79
SC
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher
“Although likely to stimulate negative feedback from stakeholders in the short term, making harvest regulations more conservative by reducing the season length or bag limit of the spring turkey season may improve adult male survival. Hunters would experience a reduction in the time they have to hunt, and the number of turkeys they could harvest, but this would increase the number of turkeys available to be hunted. Greater subadult survival facilitated by these harvest regulations may lead to high recruitment into the adult age class and more high-quality hunting opportunities.”

His whole premise is based on the idea that turkey population is a zero sum game and its up to him to decide how to divide them up. It ain't so. The more restrictions they place on hunting, the less landowners are gonna do to produce turkeys. He may think that he can divide the pie in a fairer way, but he doesn't seem to have a clue that the pie is going to be a lot smaller.

A chufa patch is just one example of habitat improvement that is done entirely for turkeys. I'm sure chufas are grown in states other than AL, but I've never seen one. People don't have the same level of interest in other states as we do, because they don't have the same opportunity that we do. Its similar to liberal states raising taxes even higher and then finding out they don't collect near as much as estimated - people move out when taxes become unbearable. In this case, the turkeys won't move out; they just won't never exist.


There is a pile of chufas grown in SC and I venture to say that there are many people that manage for turkeys around here with the same intensity that you do. I know that I personally planted 70 bags a year for many years.

But 99.9 percent of the stuff you post is right on the money.

Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2558994
08/22/18 03:39 PM
08/22/18 03:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
It was out of TN. Here is their basic info release—> https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/t...key_Disease_Study_Summary-_Sept_2016.pdf

Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: North40R] #2559055
08/22/18 04:34 PM
08/22/18 04:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,005
Covington County
Squeaky Offline
12 point
Squeaky  Offline
12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,005
Covington County
Originally Posted by North40R
Chicken litter, habitat destructive timber practices and a booming predator population are all factors that are reducing our states turkey population!

Chickens = Big business and money in the pockets so that isn't going to be addressed!

Timber = Big business and money in the pockets so that isn't going to be addressed!

Predators= Anything that offers any type of relief cost money therefore it isn't going to be addressed!

Hunters who manage their properties at their own expense are rewarded with lower bag limits and shorter seasons!

See! It all makes perfect sense!



Hammer meets nail with this assessment. It’s spot on in my personal opinion. The state is all about taking the approach that will cost them the least amount of money. They don’t have enough money to fund enough game wardens for each county. If anyone thinks the will/can fund solutions to some of the proven problems they are kidding their selves. As Hank said it’s easier to reduce the season and bag limit and it not effect the states bottom line.

I would like to make something clear. I think a lot of Matt and Jeremy so my dislike of all this is nothing personal against you guys at all. I fully believe there are bigger things behind the scenes taking place you guys have no control or knowledge of.


"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Southwood7] #2559061
08/22/18 04:49 PM
08/22/18 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,005
Covington County
Squeaky Offline
12 point
Squeaky  Offline
12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,005
Covington County
Matt I have the upmost respect for you and your knowledge around the Ag industry. We will have to agree to disagree on the use of chicken litter. You are very familiar with the property I turkey hunted for years. I was the only turkey hunter on nearly 4000 acres. Granted there was probably some poaching on said property but the population was outstanding in the beginning. Fast forward a few years to higher fuel prices and increased fertilizer cost along with a farmer going broke and here came the chicken litter. The turkey population declined immediately and there is no other excuse for it. Something almost single handy wiped that turkey flock out in a short period of time. One of two things happened, they left or died. When you go from seeing winter flocks of 50 to 60 birds to nothing in a years time something took place that wasn’t hunter or predator related.

I can also reference several other properties that have always been loaded with turkeys then the use of chicken litter came along. The turkey population on these properties are half of what they use to be.

I sure hope you never experience what some of us have my friend!


"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
Re: Contact the DCNR [Re: Squeaky] #2559117
08/22/18 05:56 PM
08/22/18 05:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,105
B
blade Offline
12 point
blade  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,105
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Matt I have the upmost respect for you and your knowledge around the Ag industry. We will have to agree to disagree on the use of chicken litter. You are very familiar with the property I turkey hunted for years. I was the only turkey hunter on nearly 4000 acres. Granted there was probably some poaching on said property but the population was outstanding in the beginning. Fast forward a few years to higher fuel prices and increased fertilizer cost along with a farmer going broke and here came the chicken litter. The turkey population declined immediately and there is no other excuse for it. Something almost single handy wiped that turkey flock out in a short period of time. One of two things happened, they left or died. When you go from seeing winter flocks of 50 to 60 birds to nothing in a years time something took place that wasn’t hunter or predator related.

I can also reference several other properties that have always been loaded with turkeys then the use of chicken litter came along. The turkey population on these properties are half of what they use to be.

I sure hope you never experience what some of us have my friend!


Squeaky, I think Matt agreed there is a correlation between chicken litter and turkey decline.

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