I’m not trying to go “49er” on y’all but I am pissed off that the CAB voted to take turkey hunting days away from us for no biological reason. In case you missed it the CAB voted to move the turkey opener to the 3rd Saturday in March from now on. Fred Harders, the assistant director of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries had this to say about the change....

“It’s a day that just about everybody has off,” Harders said. “If it comes in on a Thursday and you’re in a hunting club where you’re the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else.”

So...... NO biological reason for making the change. Just taking days away so Fred and his buddies can hunt opening day. Anyway, I’m going to send these clowns an email every day until I get a response back from them. Here is Fred’s contact info:

Fred Harders, Assistant Director
(334) 242-3465
dcnr.wffdirector@dcnr.alabama.gov

I voiced my opinions on the subject after that meeting adjourned. They seemed confused when I shot holes in their “logic.” I spoke to several and even the ones on the board that are “looking out for us” didn’t have a problem with it changing.

By all means flood them with calls and emails. I told them that they would get some serious pushback from it, but they acted like I didn’t know what I was talking about.

I wish Aunt Bea would kick Chuckies sorry arse out and be done with it. I think hes the root of most all of the BS coming out of the CAB and DCNR

That little ainsworth fucker gonna be gov next. Then weee all screwed

Harders said. “If it comes in on a Thursday and you’re in a hunting club where you’re the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else.”


Fred Harders, Assistant Director
(334) 242-3465
dcnr.wffdirector@dcnr.alabama.gov[/quote]

Thats exactly right! That's the reward shift workers get for working weekends when everyone else is off! And the reason the die hards save vacation every year!

They aren't worried about making the majority happy just the chosen few that pull the strings!

Thats exactly right! That's the reward shift workers get for working weekends when everyone else is off! And the reason the die hards save vacation every year!

They aren't worried about making the majority happy just the chosen few that pull the strings![/quote]



You get it, life is full of choices , blow all your vacation days in Gulf Shores or save some for killin' stuff. It ain't hard.

CAB has the " everybody gets a trophy" mentality .

March 2020, it looks like the 3rd Saturday would be March 21st?? We lose 6 days of a 45 day season! That really sucks. 13% fewer days to hunt in 2020.

But the good news is that the limit will be down to 2 by then so you won't need those days anyway.

chris.blankenship@dcnr.alabama.gov

dcnr.wffdirector@dcnr.alabama.gov

dcnr.wffdirector@dcnr.alabama.gov

Blankenship, Sykes and Harders all got an email from me. Y’all send them them a quick note instead of us just bitching amongst ourselves.

Just curious, what are y’all saying in these emails? I probably should refrain from saying what I want to say.

A major turkey study is underway in the south east as many of y'all know. ....And it's pointing heavily towards laters season openers. Prescribed burning practices are in question. Turkey fertility/breeding cycle is in question. Of course predation is a major issue. I think this is the tip of the iceberg........ but I hope I'm incorrect.

Y'all should be more pissed off that a person sitting on the Advisory Board who brought up this turkey stuff and voted on all other proposals resigned her board seat just a couple of weeks after this May meeting because she was moving to Georgia.

Y'all really believe at the time of the Board meeting that she didn't know she was going to resign and move just weeks later? Or that anyone else at DCNR or involved with the Board didn't know?

The Board has had meetings and votes in the past with a member absent for whatever reason. Her sitting in the meeting, making proposals and voting on issues but then resigning just weeks later reeks of BS.

Bingo.

She resigned her city council seat within days of the CAB debacle . She knew dang well she was leaving Alabama. Far as I know she was the only CAB member ever from Jackson County, what a disappointment. Chuck gonna have to look long and hard to replace a puppet like her.

I was in a club in Lee County back in the early to mid 2000's and me and another member killed turkeys that had receivers on their legs. We drove to the Barbour County management area cuz that was the closest one we knew of and turned them in. The GW there told us AU was doing a study and this was vital that they got these back. He also told us we would get information back on these if we gave him our information. So we did, and 15 years later we are still waiting.
If I ever kill another one I will take it to anyone besides a state employee and have them get the information for me even if I have to pay to have this done.

I guess my point is these studies have been going for a long time whether they publicize them or not and they are gonna hide the information every time.

Of all the people that could represent us, I'd like to know how she got on the board and I'd also like to know who pushed her to bring that stooopid chit up! I'm starting March 1....screw'em.

Chuck Sykes is the answer to both your queries , they were very cozy well before she was on the CAB.

You talk too much!......

That's all I got to say about that!

Turkey hunting is to be done in April imo. Got no problem with the date change.

Things like this cause the average guy to lose all confidence in our system. The turkey study may be completely on the up and up, but I will always doubt it because of so many questionable practices by the dcnr brass. I don't know if they don't understand that, or just don't care.

Well, you’re probably the only one. I love the first two weeks of the season.

Nope. Extremely short sighted comment. Every acre of AL south of Hwy 80 should start earlier than March 15, not later.

Pretty much. When the birds are henned up opening weekend, it started too late:

[quote=Clem]
Y'all should be more pissed off that a person sitting on the Advisory Board who brought up this turkey stuff and voted on all other proposals resigned her board seat just a couple of weeks after this May meeting because she was moving to Georgia.

Y'all really believe at the time of the Board meeting that she didn't know she was going to resign and move just weeks later? Or that anyone else at DCNR or involved with the Board didn't know?

The Board has had meetings and votes in the past with a member absent for whatever reason. Her sitting in the meeting, making proposals and voting on issues but then resigning just weeks later reeks of BS.


Jessica Butler was born in Molena, GA and moved to Scottsboro in 2013. How she even get on the CAB only being here a few years?

No joke. Wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they moved the season back to start beginning of March and go out middle of April.

Thats when ours starts and and the WMA's I hunt produces as much or more than the southern zones. I remember the southern zone always starting on March 20th for alot of years.

I love the first two weeks of March.

Nope, he's not the only one that likes April. I'll hunt all season, but April has always been my best month.

When I said, “you’re probably the only one” I was referring to ben saying he has no problem with the date change. I do favor the first two weeks of the season but I don’t want wanna I lose ANY hunting days. I can’t believe y’all are ok with losing 6 days in 2020???

I never said I was ok with losing days.

^^^^That’s a good one. I bet the hunting pressure is light even on public land👍

I got a response from my emails:



I was forwarded several emails from you today, one of which came from the Commissioner’s office, and I have been asked to respond to your concerns. I see that they are all centered around the change in the opening day of turkey season for the upcoming year. The spring opening date change from March 15 to the 3rd Saturday in March was a recommendation proposed by the Conservation Advisory Board. To be clear, the recommendation was not proposed by ADCNR Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division (WFF) wildlife biologists. The first priority with our staff in recommending changes to season regulations is the wildlife resource in which we a deemed responsible for managing. If a later opening had been proposed by our staff, it would likely have been later than the 3rd Saturday in March based on preliminary data. Our WFF Wild Turkey Committee, in cooperation with researchers at Auburn University, has developed wild turkey prediction models using current biological data such as reproduction, survival, and harvest rates to predict future populations under various season and bag limit alternatives. Although this work is not yet complete, indications are pointing to a later opening and reduced bag limit as the optimal alternative to produce the most viable populations. We are currently updating the model and will include data gleaned from the current AU research project when it concludes next year. Besides the observed decline in population growth as evidenced by our statewide brood surveys and harvest trends, harvest intensity in the first couple weeks of the spring season may play a role in reducing the potential of hens being bred.

I am looking at the turkey season and bag limit recommendations through three pair of glasses. First as a turkey hunter with 40 years of experience here in Alabama. Secondly, as a college educated wildlife biologist with more than 25 years of on-the-ground experience of managing tens of thousands of acres in Alabama. And finally, as the Director of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries whose job is to manage, protect, conserve, and enhance the wildlife and aquatic resources of Alabama for the sustainable benefit of the people of Alabama. As a selfish turkey hunter, I want as many days afield as I can get regardless of the negative impact it could have on the resource. As a biologist, I want the season to start in April as the biological data suggests which would be best for the resource. As the Director, I have to weigh the consequences of both sides before I make recommendations.

As you said in your email, “ I’m personally not concerned about the hunter who isn’t “off work” until Saturday, when the season opens up during the week. If it mattered to that guy, he could schedule his vacation time accordingly like the rest of us do that enjoy weekday hunting. “ I’d be willing to bet that the hunter you mentioned prior is not concerned about your issues of, “My children’s spring break normally coincides with the 15th opener. I know that all school district calendars are not the same, but it matters to us. Competitive kids spring sports; baseball, softball, soccer, dance and cheer almost all involve weekend travel these days”. Although these season changes may be inconvenient for some of our hunters, our focus is maintaining sustainable populations of wild turkeys, while providing hunting opportunities for all Alabamians, now and in the future.

Thank you for your input and I hope I have adequately addressed all of your concerns.


Chuck Sykes
Director
Wildlife & Freshwater Fisheries Division

I got a response that I will post as well. Y’all get ready for a 3 bird limit.

A lot of info in that email excep one thing. The real reason.

It's nice that you got a response, T-town.

If there was any doubt before, that email should eliminate it - they are gonna reduce the length of the season and the limit. And it will be justified by a computer model that "may" indicate that some hens are not being bred because of the timing of the season opener.

There might indeed be places with so few gobblers that there are none around to breed the hens when they needed it. The historical solution to that has been to start the season later in those places. In places where you hear multiple gobblers throughout the season it defies common sense to believe that hens aren't being bred due to hunting.

Oh well, government doesn't have to use common sense.

The new studies preliminary findings are not friendly for turkey hunters. As much as it pains me I think sweeping changes are coming.

From that response:

The spring opening date change from March 15 to the 3rd Saturday in March was a recommendation proposed by the Conservation Advisory Board. To be clear, the recommendation was not proposed by ADCNR Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division (WFF) wildlife biologists. The first priority with our staff in recommending changes to season regulations is the wildlife resource in which we a deemed responsible for managing.

IF this is true, IF putting the resource comes first, IF the WWF biologists' recommendations are different from the Advisory Board AND the Board is not the End-All Be-All Decider of whatever happens then the DCNR Commissioner should not have approved this turkey season change.


But when the February deer season in North Alabama was approved it was clear that "what's best for the resource" isn't the top priority.

What ticks me off about Chuckies response is they are proposing nearly the same season and bag limit for us that Georgia has had for a very long time. Georgia is very similar in habitat as us. They are also experiencing a decline in population even though they have a later season opener and 3 bird limit. I’m sure the state of Georgia have people with similar credentials as Chuckie managing their natural resources as well. What they are doing isn’t working at all to increase their population and still experiencing a decline. What makes him think Alabama is going to be any different? If I were the one that received that reply my follow up email would point out this information and ask him why he thinks Alabama is going to be different than Georgia with a similar management approach. In my opinion there is a bigger issue behind the secense to be like our neighbors and copy their failed management philosophy.

I consider myself a law abiding citizen of this state and have always tried to do the right thing. If they are going to get stupid with our turkey season I might have to reconsider my way of thinking on that matter.

And as far as I’m concerned Chuckie needs to go!! He has to many personal beliefs that he’s imposing on our season and game laws.

Click reply.

Type Dear Chuck,

People in general don't want to stray very far from the accepted norm. Short seasons and low limits are the norm in other states, and their agency leaders see AL as backwards in our game management system. The desire of our leadership is to make us like everyone else. Looks like they will.

Here is my response.... Catch me if you can!

I've seen a lot of vague statements like this posted; can you be more specific? What could they possibly have discovered that is not hunter friendly? The gobblers still don't sit on the eggs or assist with raising poults. It's hard to imagine what they might have found on the hard hunted public land they are studying that applies to the whole state.

I've hunted the same property for 54 years. Populations have gone up and down depending on our habitat, but I have never seen any evidence that hunting did anything but help the turkey population. And right now it's up. It's produced more gobblers the past 2 years than it ever has. I don't see the crisis here.

The response I got was very similar but not exactly....keep in mind that I quoted the assistant directors comments in the Tuscaloosa news article in my emails and he had no comment on that.


Mr. Cockrell,
I was forwarded several emails from you today, one of which came from the Commissioner’s office, and I have been asked to respond to your concerns. I see that they are all centered around the change in the opening day of turkey season for the upcoming season. This quote was taken from your email addressed to specifically to me, “I realize that the CAB makes this recommendations but can’t you, as the director over rule them?” As you stated, the recommendation was not proposed by ADCNR Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division (WFF) wildlife biologists. However, we do not make the regulations. We can make recommendations to the Commissioner and the Board, but we can’t over rule them. So, ultimately, it is their decision.

Here’s another quote from you in an email simply addressed to whom it may concern, “ I wish we had leadership in the DCNR that wouldn’t allow major changes like this to seasons without a concrete biological reason.” Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it. The first priority with our staff in recommending changes to season regulations is the wildlife resource in which we are deemed responsible for managing. If a later opening had been proposed by our staff, it would likely have been later than the 3rd Saturday in March based on preliminary data. Our WFF Wild Turkey Committee, in cooperation with researchers at Auburn University, has developed wild turkey prediction models using current biological data such as reproduction, survival, and harvest rates to predict future populations under various season and bag limit alternatives. Although this work is not yet complete, indications are pointing to a later opening and reduced bag limit as the optimal alternative to produce the most viable populations. We are currently updating the model and will include data gleaned from the current AU research project when it concludes next year. Besides the observed decline in population growth as evidenced by our statewide brood surveys and harvest trends, harvest intensity in the first couple weeks of the spring season may play a role in reducing the potential of hens being bred.

The final quote of yours I’d like to respond to came specifically to me, “I am just very disappointed that we would allow a change like this based on someone’s agenda rather than abound biological reason.” I am looking at the turkey season and bag limit recommendations through three pair of glasses. First as a turkey hunter with 40 years of experience here in Alabama. Secondly, as a college educated wildlife biologist with more than 25 years of on-the-ground experience of managing tens of thousands of acres in Alabama. And finally, as the Director of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries whose job is to manage, protect, conserve, and enhance the wildlife and aquatic resources of Alabama for the sustainable benefit of the people of Alabama. As a selfish turkey hunter, I want as many days afield as I can get regardless of the negative impact it could have on the resource. As a biologist, I want the season to start in April as the biological data suggests which would be best for the resource. As the Director, I have to weigh the consequences of both sides before I make recommendations. Although these season changes may be inconvenient for our hunters, me included, our focus is maintaining sustainable populations of wild turkeys, while providing hunting opportunities for all Alabamians, now and in the future.
Thank you for your input and I hope I have adequately addressed all of your concerns.

Chuck Sykes

Director

Wildlife & Freshwater Fisheries Division

I thought it was pretty comical that he told me to “be careful what I wish for, I just might get it”

Oh No! He’s threatening me with wildlife decisions based on science!!!! 😂😂😂😂

Just a thought, too: Sykes is responding to these emails, which is good instead of ignoring them or foisting them off to an underling, but surely y'all don't believe he's the absolute only one who decided or mandated or is making these changes?

Also, looking through three pair of glasses isn't good for your eyes. You could end up like this:

Reminds me. I need a new pair of running shoes before next year.

I think it's pretty clear that if we want sound biological decisions being made in regards to the game and fish in this state, we are going to need a new director. No email or call any of us send is going to sway the opinion of this out of touch, arrogant, asshat. I think we would probably all be better served by emailing Kay Ivey and asking her to make the change since she is the one who ultimately appoints the director.

Yep

Actually the guvner appoints the commissioner, not the director.

The governor appoints the commissioner and the Conservation Advisory Board. Apppointees "serve at the pleasure of the governor" and can be dismissed at any time for any reason.

The director is hired like any other state employee.


Think about that: the Advisory Board is appointed by the governor, as is the Commissioner - who can accept or reject the "recommendations" of the Advisory Board.

His Daddy didn't whip his arse enough when he was growing up. Arrogant prick.

Interesting, and I stand corrected. I still think approaching this through the governor has a better chance of success than dealing with Chuckie. So who determines if Chuckie needs to be fired and replaced?

Looks like we have a pattern , the Feb deer season extension for NA comes to mind . Sorry fellers, just couldn't help myself.

Chuck is an arrogant POS. He can go F himself.

Well, ol Chuck is right about one thing. Be careful what you wish for.
I used to have heated arguments with Corky and Riley.
Corky was the most stubborn, hard headed, stuck in the mud SOB I ever met.
But I sure do miss them two jackasses.
They both weighed their options, told the truth and didn't seem to have a personal agenda.

I am no college-educated wildlife biologist like Chuck is but I do know what i have witnessed at our hunting club in Sumter County. 20 years ago we had a lot more mixed Timber than we do now and I have an old journal where we recorded hunt observations. If you didn't hear 10 or 12 a day they just weren't Gobbling very good. Now I would doubt there's 10 or 12 gobblers on the whole property. So much young cut over that the birds are relegated to the smzs along the creeks and that property cant support the number of birds it did when it was mixed timber.

Despite what may be presented, these changes are being pushed from somewhere besides the CAB. It can only be the department. There were 4 CAB members that voted against the limit reduction, I have talked to them all and they seem steady against changes without biological evidence to support it. Ben Stimson and Raymond Jones are solid guys with good sense and biological knowledge. I believe Pat Cagle is for science supported recommendations also. That science does not include computer models to tell us how to set regulations! I think Grady Hartzog is also thinking practically. Many of you may know Tim Woods from Selma. He was just appointed and is also a solid guy with good sense. If we can keep these 5 guys from voting against changing limits and season dates, we should be able to hold the line. I would also note that they are all heavily involved with the Alabama Wildlife Federation and get sound information from folks there. I would recommend contacting them by phone, email, and/or letters and voicing your opinion whatever it may be.

Thank you for the information gobbler. I am done emailing or contacting Chuck about anything that’s for sure.

This is the kind of letters the CAB is getting from somewhere. We should voice our concerns to the CAB AND the Commissioner similarly and accordingly.

Alabama Conservation Advisory Board,
2018, marks the forty first year (41st) of my turkey hunting career in Alabama, where I hold a Lifetime Hunting License. During an average year I will turkey hunt forty (40) days, in Alabama. The majority of my Alabama turkey hunting career has been spent guiding turkey hunters. I spent sixteen (16) years as a Turkey Guide, for White Oak Plantation in Tuskegee, AL, where I guided hunters, outdoor writers, industry personnel, and a most of the NWTF Executives of that era. I hunted with Dr. James Earl Kennamer many years, but always took time to talk about turkeys every time he was at White Oak Plantation. Currently, I average hunting between 10-12 Alabama Counties, helping others and teaching them lessons I have learned.

Both my exposure and success as a guide have afforded me many opportunities and insights, shared by very few turkey hunters in Alabama. One such opportunity, was to sit with Lovett E. Williams, Jr. (Wildlife Biologist), during a panel discussion and interview for Turkey and Turkey Hunting Magazine. History will show Lovett Williams knew more about the Wild Turkey than anyone else. One of his assertions was, “it takes five thousand (5,000) turkey eggs to produce one (1) five-year old gobbler”. Lovett told me his assertion took the following factors into account, sterile eggs, nest predation, poult predation, deaths resulting from weather hazards, and hunter harvest.

As a turkey hunting guide, I averaged harvesting or helping others harvest nineteen (19) turkeys each year. The most I have ever been a part of harvesting in a single Alabama Spring Season was twenty-six (26), and I typically see nine (9) harvested by April 1 each year. I have either harvested or helped others harvest turkeys in Alabama, every day between March 15, and April 30, but the single day I have seen more birds harvested than any other is April 6. I attribute the success of April 6 to weather, photo period, and breeding cycle, which all generate the typical turkey behavior everyone talks about.

I am keenly aware of site specifics such as, habitat, nest and bird predation, and hunting pressure all have on turkeys and ultimately hunter success. I am also aware of an increase in an early season tactic called “Reaping” where a hunter takes a full fan and starts crawling forward toward a gobbler. This tactic triggers a fighting response which is typical behavior for a gobbler, and typically occurs prior to the breeding cycle. Additionally, there are a growing number of license holders who like to hunt turkeys, but are not turkey hunters. Those individuals typically rely on deer season patterns of turkeys and will go sit on a food plot with a decoy positioned in gun range, and wait. They sit waiting on a gobbler to approach the decoy so they can kill the gobbler. These individuals are utilizing food plots because the grass height is still short enough for birds to utilize the plot all day. Turkeys will remain in a winter pattern until the hens start migrating towards nesting and brood rearing habitat. So, I ask you why are these individuals having success. I submit the reason is due to the timing occurring prior to the hens being bred.

With the Alabama Spring Turkey Season opening every year on March 15, and the crazy weather patterns I have monitored for 41 years prior to April 1, I am convinced Alabama turkey hunters are harvesting gobblers before they have a chance to breed the majority of hens (5,000 to 1). Both Dr. James Earl Kennamer and Lovett Williams told me many years ago, breeding is triggered by photo period and temperature.

I am recommending the Conservation Advisory Board adjust the Alabama Spring Turkey Season opening day from March 15 every year, to the third (3rd) Saturday in March every year and run forty-seven (47) days from that date. The earliest opening date would be March 15, and the latest opening date would be March 21. Adjusting the opening date would allow your Annual Renewal License holders, and Non-Resident License holders, to hunt the first two days of the season every year. Another benefit is, commercial lodges will always be able to set their first full hunt, for what is typically their best customers. Additionally, adjusting the date would provide the gobbler as much time as I believe would be tolerable to both you, and the license holders in Alabama. Personally, I would like to see Turkey Season open somewhere between March 25 and April 1, but do not believe that is acceptable.

Having been exposed to the people I have and the opportunities I have had, I am also convinced the Alabama Bearded Gobbler bag limit should be reduced from five (5) to three (3), and only one (1) per day. No other state has a bag limit of five (5), and only two other states have a bag limit of four (4). Most states bag limit is between one (1) and three (3).

I am aware of the testing and research Auburn University is conducting in Alabama. I am not optimistic the Auburn University study will produce conclusive data, due to the small geographic footprint compared to the size of Alabama and the distance from the Gulf of Mexico to the Tennessee State Line, combined with the length of time required to conclude that study. Personally, I believe the time to act is now, and we cannot wait on the results of the data.

Currently, the Wild Turkey is the Number 2 Wildlife Resource in the State of Alabama. As soon as Chronic Wasting Disease is discovered in Alabama, the Wild Turkey could easily become the Number 1 Wildlife Resource in Alabama. Even if the Wild Turkey remains the Number 2 Wildlife Resource, you are a Conservation Advisory Board Member, and you are charged with protecting the Wildlife Resources of the State of Alabama, regardless of opposition or popularity. I challenge you to do your job as an advocate for the Wild Turkeys in Alabama.

I will be attending the next CAB Meeting to personally address my concerns of season dates and bag limit. Please pass along my concerns to the entire Conservation Advisory Board.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

Who wrote that foolishness ? Sounds like Jessica Butler's playbook.

Feller who wrote that is one of those holier than tho turkey snobs. Fanning and "deer hunting" turkeys on a plot are legal , if a hunter wants to do it , it's his business.

If we are killing the gobblers before they get a chance to breed , how does changing from March 15 to the 3rd Saturday solve that problem?

From a previous thread. The proposal was presented. Do we have any "numbers and data" yet?

All of this is going to end badly for us.

My guess is that will never be available to the public. It's too "complex" for the peasant hunters of the state to comprehend



No doubt about it.

At least in that diatribe that gobbler posted above the goober recommended keeping the total season length at 47 days. That would push us into May for a few days depending on how the calendar falls. Under the new regs, we are still ending at the end of April so the season length will be shortened by 1-6 days depending on the year.

Matt Brock responded to this last night and this morning I see the post is gone. I can’t rememebr what he said word for word but he did say he isn’t on the turkey committee anymore.

They kicked him off the committee cause he's so rough on turkeys himself. Kills limits before April and such.

I’m not even convinced a 3 bird limit will decrease harvest. That’s something that doesn’t even get discussed.

The guy that wrote the holier than thou rant to the CAB, just confirmed what I’ve been thinking anyway. Do you think he will see fewer turkey die if the limit is 3. No he won’t. He will only see two less down the end of his own barrel. Same for me. All the gobbling and willing to die turkey on my place will still die. Just killed by my kids or a friend or relative. Gobbling turkey in the Spring get themselves killed one way or the other.

This is all I need to know, They start breeding before season and I've seen them breed a hen all the way into first part of June. There is no perfect time because every year is different IMO
[/img]
[/img]

You can’t have the same starting dates for Clarke vs Laudedale County, or Barbour vs Jackson. Without zones, which apparently nobody wants, somebody is gonna start early, and others late.

But I’ve said multiple times, everything south of Hwy 80 should be March 15 or earlier. No reason at all those counties should change or go later.

You are right; it won't make a bit of difference in the world. Birds #4 and 5 make up a tiny segment of the harvest. Even if people would pay any attention to it, most of those turkeys would just get killed by someone else. But like those who push gun control, it will make some folks feel better because we are "doing something" about the perceived problem. It doesn't matter to them whether it works or not.

Reducing the season on the front end might result in a lower overall harvest. Any time hunters are in the woods, some hens will be killed. I am not convinced that such a move is really needed, but that at least would have an impact. I suspect that the guide guy's idea of moving the season into May might do more harm than having those days in March. Hunters roaming the woods in May and bumping hens off their nests could be worse for the flock than the few hens being shot in March.

Thanks for the info, gobbler. A reduced limit and a season that always opens on Saturday is ideal for those who offer commercial hunts. I can understand why that guy wants the changes. No reason to let rednecks kill those extra turkeys when they can sell them to someone. After reading that letter, it gives us a much better understanding of what is going on here. It's always follow the money.

He also said the turkey season recommendation th eCAB voted on was not recommended by the WWF biologists.

That's two people - him and Sykes - saying this season change proposal did not come from the department's biologists.

It's clearly being pushed by outside interests to the CAB.


As for zones, for turkeys that wouldn't bother me a bit. As noted above what happens in Jackson or Lauderdale counties is in no way the same as what's going on in Baldwin or Clarke or Barbour counties on March 15.

Just a quick point - we already have zones for turkey season and we have for decades. There are some counties that don't come in until April 1. This is the way the department has always managed turkey season; places with fewer turkeys get a shorter season.

Adjusting the season length in places where there aren't many turkeys is exactly what the department is supposed to do. Adjusting it to fulfill the desires of commercial lodges is exactly what they are not supposed to do.

I can't do it today, but I will write a letter to the CAB and the commissioner. I'd encourage everyone else to do the same. And remember that every member of the CAB was appointed by a Republican governor - do you think that heavy government restrictions on hunting fit in best with Republican ideas or Democratic ideas? I think we all know the answer to that and intend to pound it in my letter.

PCP, haven’t you been asking for several years now how many hunters kill 5 birds? If we lower the limit to 3 it would be nice to know how may gobblers we might be “saving”. And if we have a few extra gobblers around by reducing the limit or shortening the season is that really going to result in a better hatch and more poults?
I am no biologist and I won’t pretend to be one. All I want is seasons and bag limits set by people who have no agenda and ONLY care about the resource. Unfortunately it seems like this is too much to ask.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that a long time. And fortunately, we can now know exactly how many legally killed gobblers would be "saved" by reducing the limit to 3. Anyone who has access to the GC numbers could look it up for us. The thing is, ALL of the legally killed gobblers are listed right there, and if it wasn't reported then it wasn't legal. It seems very likely to me that hunters that won't participate in GC are not gonna be affected at all by a lower season limit, so in this particular case the GC numbers will be 100% accurate.

I would guess that the number is under 100. I would also guess that information will continue to be a closely guarded secret.

Thanks for bringing it up; I will ask them that question in my letter. Maybe someone on the CAB will demand the answer.

Wow Brian! Pretty good!

Nope. All you need is a HECS suit. It works on wardens too. Theyll never see you! Trust me. Youll be fine.

Maybe if we bombard his dumb butt with complaints and letters they will reverse course like they did a few years back when they banned fall hunting and then gave it right back.

Chuck alone can’t do that. He didn’t make the recommendation and does not have authority over the CAB and Commissioner.

You could certainly include him in the letters and emails bombarding the CAB members, the Commissioner, and make sure to include the Chief wildlife section Keith Gauldin, Assistant Chief Chris Smith, and especially, Assistant chief Amy Silvano.

Well, in the posted letter, it is obvious the guy has knowledge of things and his exact proposal was what was pitched to the CAB and discussed there. That doesn't mean the pushing is not coming from the Department, Chuck is not the only one that has discussions with the CAB, whether he likes the proposal or not. There are others in high enough positions with ears to talk to that may like lower limits and shorter seasons. I honestly don't know. In addition, there may be some pushing from Auburn? Don't know, just theorizing! Just to clarify, Matt said it was not recommended by the turkey committee. Every other WFF biologist may have talked to the CAB members and supported the reg changes. I know Matts story is sound as far as I have heard - the turkey committee was not part of the "push" for this regulation change.

I believe all this is being pushed by hunting lodges. In the Letter posted earlier, the "41yr Turkey Hunter" references his guiding of hunters and that BY OPENING ON THE THIRD SATURDAY, LODGES WOULD BE ABLE TO SAVE THE OPENER FOR A FULL WEEKEND FOR THEIR BEST CLIENTS.

Feb. 10th in the North Zone was approved because of DreamRanch and this turkey season change is for the benefit of all hunting lodges in the state. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Exactly!

If you own a hunting lodge and your best clients only are able to go on the weekends, you won't be in business very long. Any reduction in opportunity or hunting days would not benefit a commercial operation

This right here.

And moving the opening date, by 7 or less days, will have zero effect on breeding, either.

That is correct. The turkey committee nor our staff (Chuck included) proposed the changes.

I'll bet good $ Chuck Sykes had full knowledge Ms. Butler was gonna make the two motions about bag limits and moving the opener to 3rd Saturday at her last CAB meeting . I''ll also bet he gave her the go ahead.

You’d lose your money.

I doubt it. I don't believe she'd made that move without running it by yer bossman.

You have to decide who you think has the most influence in all of this...

Money is the answer......... now what was the question?

Almost always, just go with the default.......follow the $.

And we are supposed to believe that Chuck isn't on the side of wealth and influence?

Nope, not if you don’t want to but trust the fact that 2 employees are on here telling you what we know. Doing so on a public forum probably isn’t the best idea but here we are.

Well can you or Matt PM me so I can know which codsucker(s) we need to write our letters too? I want whoever had the lady from Jackson County in their back pocket

You need to send your concerns to Chuck, the commissioner, and the CAB.

But again, the changes were not proposed by DCNR.

Yep had nothing to do with deer numbers. More doing favors to get pockets lined with cash or other exclusive benefits.

Unfortunately, people like Ainsworth, high-fence owners with money, upper-crust with money, legislators, people with money who put pressure on legislators and the DCNR for their agendas, people in organizations with acroynm names and federations. People like the senator in Shooter, instead of all of the peckerwoods in the hills.

Joe Peckerwood needs to make more noise and exert more of the Common Man influence that he can, instead of shrugging and giving up.

Note a small verbal difference between "proposed" the changes and "pushed" for the changes.

Dang, you guys pulled Kicker out of a coma. Good to see you chime in.

I hate it for y'all. It's coming though. They did the same thing in SC. We had a 5 bird limit my entire life and March 15-May 1. It is now March 20-May 5 and 3 birds. Everybody scratching their heads as to why.

What's coming? You all still have the same number of hunting days right? 3 birds is still s good limit if you guys have the declining populations like we have in Bama. I would have no problem with a 3 bird limit or the dates you posted.

1. We are going to lose hunting days under the new regulations.

2. A limit reduction has basically 0 impact on total harvest numbers. How did you come upon the conclusion populations are decreasing? I heard more birds gobbling this year than I can remember in the last 5 years. I have also seen a very successful crop of young birds this summer. I'm guessing we will have a gang of Jake's issue next spring.

Ben, have you ever killed a limit?

Your posts have been so awesome lately - so why don’t you explain, in great detail, how it’s gonna help improve the population. Please give examples of multiple states where it has worked perfectly. Please use biological facts, like how more gobblers sitting on the nests helping raise the babies will help.....stuff like that.