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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2541727
08/01/18 10:27 AM
08/01/18 10:27 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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I’ve just completely let my field go natural this summer. I haven’t even bothered doing any spot spraying or nothing. A lot of folks would look at it and stroke out. There’s regular morning glory and cypress vine morning glory growing up stalks of dog fennel…..There’s red root pigweed growing in patches of crabgrass alongside bushes of sicklepod……There’s blackberries, dewberries, teaweed, pokeweed, ragweed, vervain, goldenrod, spurge nettle, Bermuda grass, florida pusley, cutleaf primrose, dandelion, white clover, lambs quarter, marestail, and more…..and its all growing THICK!

That’s a lot of diversity….……There’s flowers all over the field of red, yellow, white, purple, blue, pink……with a crazy amount of insect life buzzing through the field…and I mean a crazy amount too….there’s flying critters going everywhere…..multiple species of butterflies, dragonflies, grasshoppers, beetles, humming birds, crickets, cicadas, and on and on…..In the afternoon some type of bird comes in and it looks like an airport with dozens of them zipping back and forth. I’ve counted 8 different species of snakes so far…..found dens of baby rabbits……moles…..field mice…..foxes…..turkey……deer…..it’s teaming with life. Many would look at my field and see it as nothing but a bunch of weeds. I look it at and see it as the exact blueprint for what we’re wanting to do. It’s a complete ecosystem and not just a field of dirt.

It’s also lush green and putting out chit loads of biomass growth and I haven’t added any fertilizer since a small dose of N last fall. Keep in mind that with all of that diversity above ground comes diversity below ground through microbes and root structure…... All the critters below ground along with plant roots are improving my field by turning dirt into properly functioning soil……. Soil that has structure……Soil that lets water infiltrate properly and get proper oxygen flow to the roots…..Soil that has a regulated temp…..Soil that holds moisture…….It’s all connected…..This will in turn improve my fall plots of cereal grains, brassicas, clovers.

[Linked Image]

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Last edited by CNC; 08/01/18 10:29 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2541735
08/01/18 10:39 AM
08/01/18 10:39 AM
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I think that last picture of something eating the hell out of that morning glory plant is probably some type of caterpillar and not deer. I added it in there though because it’s a good example of how when you have a diverse functioning ecosystem….things tend to balance themselves out.


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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2541805
08/01/18 11:40 AM
08/01/18 11:40 AM
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Bama_Bow_Hunter Offline
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CNC: so come late Septemeber/October, you will simply broadcast a mix of brasicas, cereal grains and clovers into this fallow field and then mow? Is that correct?

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: Bama_Bow_Hunter] #2541942
08/01/18 02:21 PM
08/01/18 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bama_Bow_Hunter
CNC: so come late Septemeber/October, you will simply broadcast a mix of brasicas, cereal grains and clovers into this fallow field and then mow? Is that correct?


Yep, that's it......I'll wait until the first good rain in Oct so that pretty much everything in the field is ready to terminate naturally.


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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2541987
08/01/18 03:10 PM
08/01/18 03:10 PM
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One of the big keys to being really successful sprouting seed this way is to have a rich, soft layer of topsoil that you’re broadcasting your seed onto. If you’re field is really depleted of organic matter and you’re forming a crust on the surface….it may take a few rotations of no-tilling in order to get it back in shape. The top layer of soil in my field is pretty much just compost now. You can run your fingers down 6 inches deep with no effort.

Just a side note. This pic of the soil surface was taken immediately after a heavy rain shower. This is what you want the soil surface to stay looking like too after every heavy rain. The soil stays intact…..the organic matter stays intact…..the structure below ground stays intact…..good water infiltration.....no erosion.....

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 08/01/18 03:25 PM.

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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2542571
08/02/18 07:51 AM
08/02/18 07:51 AM
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toothdoc Offline
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Nice. Thanks for the pics!

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2542635
08/02/18 09:15 AM
08/02/18 09:15 AM
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I remember BSK being a proponent of rotational mowing of fields. To increase biodiversity and utilization of a fallow field, he encouraged mowing it in thirds: 1 third year one, 1 third year two, and 1 third year three. By spacing the mowing out like that, he claimed you would have different plants growing due to succession.


"The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing... compared to the misery of not being exploited at all."

Joan Robinson
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: William] #2542638
08/02/18 09:18 AM
08/02/18 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by William
I remember BSK being a proponent of rotational mowing of fields. To increase biodiversity and utilization of a fallow field, he encouraged mowing it in thirds: 1 third year one, 1 third year two, and 1 third year three. By spacing the mowing out like that, he claimed you would have different plants growing due to succession.


I've thought about doing that. I'd probably forget what I cut and when though. And judging by some of these volunteer pines, it might be some pretty rough bushogging. I've got 7 year old pines that are 18 feet high in some fields.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: William] #2542655
08/02/18 09:31 AM
08/02/18 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by William
I remember BSK being a proponent of rotational mowing of fields. To increase biodiversity and utilization of a fallow field, he encouraged mowing it in thirds: 1 third year one, 1 third year two, and 1 third year three. By spacing the mowing out like that, he claimed you would have different plants growing due to succession.


I agree…..Mowing is a tool……Timing of mowing is also a tool…..Mowing tends to favor grasses and reduce broadleafs.

On the idea of diversity……I’ve also noticed that with changes in soil health comes changes in plant species composition. My field was nearly pure crabgrass when I first started…….The pic below was one of my very first experiments. A considerable difference in specie makeup compared to today. This process also works in reverse. You can go from lots of biodiversity to nothing but a field a crabgrass again by destroying the OM and reverting everything back to a field of poorly structured sand.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by CNC; 08/02/18 09:33 AM.

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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2542800
08/02/18 11:46 AM
08/02/18 11:46 AM
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Sylacauga, AL
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Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by Bama_Bow_Hunter
CNC: so come late Septemeber/October, you will simply broadcast a mix of brasicas, cereal grains and clovers into this fallow field and then mow? Is that correct?


Yep, that's it......I'll wait until the first good rain in Oct so that pretty much everything in the field is ready to terminate naturally.


Thanks CNC. I am planning to try this method this year on about a 7 acre field. We usually spray, disc, broadcast and cover. It takes nearly a full day just to get it busted up. It's about belly/chest high right now and we just sprayed it. I'm hoping once we mow it there will be enough organic matter this first year to produce. Expectations aren't extremely high but I'm sold on giving this method a try.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2542801
08/02/18 11:47 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Here’s an example of how timing of mowing can be used as a tool. My apple orchard looked just about identical to the rest of the field earlier this summer. As a matter of fact, it was growing much thicker in dog fennel due to me having done nothing other than mowed the lanes the year before. Here’s a pic I found from last summer to give you some idea.

[Linked Image]

I decided to keep it a little cleaner this summer so I mowed it one time back in mid to late June after all the summer veg had really taken off. You can see how the timing of that mowing suppressed the broadleafs and threw the balance more toward the grasses. The dog fennel was heavily suppressed as a result.

[Linked Image]

In comparison, here is my natural screen of dog fennel that was simply mowed at a different time…..once back in Feb…..See how timing of mowing is a tool. The other areas of dog fennel around this patch have been semi-suppressed with cereal rye….yet another tool in our bag. It’s not about the equipment….it’s about the understanding of principles.

[Linked Image]

Here’s another example of how mowing and timing effects species composition….Where is the only place growing nutsedge???

Answer:…..My trail that gets repeatedly mowed.

[Linked Image]


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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2542847
08/02/18 12:55 PM
08/02/18 12:55 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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One of my favorite summertime plants…..teaweed. If you look close you can see it growing all over this area of the field. It has tiny yellow flowers.

[Linked Image]

The deer have completely mowed the tops out. Teaweed seems to be one of the most preferred native species in late summer. It has a nutrient value equal to soybeans….look it up. I’ve seen them eat teaweed to the ground in years past when things went dry.

[Linked Image]


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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: Bama_Bow_Hunter] #2542923
08/02/18 02:24 PM
08/02/18 02:24 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by Bama_Bow_Hunter


Thanks CNC. I am planning to try this method this year on about a 7 acre field. We usually spray, disc, broadcast and cover. It takes nearly a full day just to get it busted up. It's about belly/chest high right now and we just sprayed it. I'm hoping once we mow it there will be enough organic matter this first year to produce. Expectations aren't extremely high but I'm sold on giving this method a try.


Cool!.....Keep us updated on it and don't be afraid to ask questions if you have any. thumbup


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: Bama_Bow_Hunter] #2543413
08/03/18 08:26 AM
08/03/18 08:26 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by Bama_Bow_Hunter
CNC: so come late Septemeber/October, you will simply broadcast a mix of brasicas, cereal grains and clovers into this fallow field and then mow? Is that correct?


One other thing I should have added to my first response………Yes, just mow it……but mow it neat….Don’t leave wind rows…..spread the “hay” out as evenly as possible. This may require a second pass back across some areas. Using a drag to simply drag down the vegetation is also an option.


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2544201
08/04/18 09:17 AM
08/04/18 09:17 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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This is a patch of florida pusley…..It’s growing abundantly around my field. This is another one of my favorite summer species.

[Linked Image]

Pusley is a succulent little plant that the deer really start hammering this time of year.

[Linked Image]

Sure, I could go to the store and buy buckwheat and spend the money to plant it…..but why??? Pusley can tolerate the browsing pressure better anyways.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by CNC; 08/04/18 09:18 AM.

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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2544295
08/04/18 12:44 PM
08/04/18 12:44 PM
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Time for a mild rant……… cool

Let may say upfront that I like Grant Woods and his show so don’t take this criticism as hardcore bashing of him or anything. It’s more a rant on sponsor fed information in general. There’s something that irks me though about the way information is fed to the hunting public through these shows. The problem is that you never get the whole truth when “sponsors” are involved. You get fed what’s good for the sponsors bottom line. Even when the truth is being shown….it has to be shown through a certain lens. This is rampant in the food plotting world. Most folks are just trying to sell you something. One of things I like about Growing Deer TV is that it does a way better job of providing you with solid info over sales pitch than most of the other shows out there. Even still though….they are still constrained by sponsors who need to sell seed or what have you. When that happens then the idea of not planting something sold by such and such company can never be an option. Their latest video is a good example in my eyes.

On one segment of the video he gives you a little tease about an upcoming summer seed blend they’re experimenting with from Eagle seeds that will be offered in the future. The blend is going to be designed for small plots that receive a lot of browsing pressure. As we’ve talked about before…..this probably represents 90% of the plots being planted in hunting clubs and whatnot. Anyways, in that segment he talks about how it’ll be sold so that plotters will be able to offer the deer something on these plots in the summer without their plots just growing up into a “weedy mess”….as if that’s BAD……Well, then in the very next segment of the show….he stands in the middle of an oak savannah growing in 25-30 different native species….aka “weedy mess”…..and spends several minutes touting all the great benefits that it provides to the soil and wildlife….and how that type of habitat has increased their deer population to the point they cant shoot enough……

Here’s my issue…..even though we’re dealing with one of the best ones out there in Dr. Woods….sponsors still have influence. He can never tell you that you don’t need to buy seed from the companies that are sponsoring his show. Nobody is ever gonna tell you that you don’t need to buy this and that…..How could they? They can only adapt what they’re selling you. Case in point here…..They won’t ever tell you to simply fertilize those small plots in the summer and let them grow up thick in 20+ different species of native vegetation……Instead they’ll design a seed blend to sell you to fill that niche. The small plot niche is a mighty big niche to fill too.

Again, I’m not really trying to bash folks by saying this…..it’s the way the world works……I’m just pointing it out. Bottom line is….think for yourself. The “deer” industry is driven by the need to sell stuff to people and the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth….will always take a back seat to that….even in the best of circumstances. QDMA made that very apparent by shutting down their forum awhile back….. but that’s a whole nuther rant. smile


Last edited by CNC; 08/04/18 12:48 PM.

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Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2544328
08/04/18 01:28 PM
08/04/18 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CNC
Bottom line is….think for yourself. The “deer” industry is driven by the need to sell stuff to people and the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth….will always take a back seat to that….even in the best of circumstances.


thumbup

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2544331
08/04/18 01:29 PM
08/04/18 01:29 PM
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Good for you CNC. I do not even watch TV shows anymore because of all the commercials. 20 minutes of commercials and 10 minutes of show.

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2544733
08/05/18 08:00 AM
08/05/18 08:00 AM
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I agree 100%. I respect Grant and think he’s one of the most educated deer biologist in the country. My wife and I have been to the Proving Grounds at least a half dozen times. Grant has turned an old cutover rock pit into excellent wildlife habitat. I practice many of his recommendations on our land

Bottom line - sponsors dictate what Grant says. He is building a business and raising a family. If he wants sponsors dollars, he has to support their product. I’ve followed Grant even before he moved to the Proving Grounds when he was doing “Beyond the Basics” in Mississippi 12 years ago. He is a great guy but he follows the almighty dollar like most everyone else

CNC provides a good example. A couple other issues where he has made complete 180 on his recommendations are planting fruit trees and supplemental feeding. When I first meet Grant, about 15 years ago, he was 100% against any type of supplemental feeding. His recommendation was always to shoot more does to balance population with habitat. Then came the sponsors.... now isupplemental feeding is a great way help your deer get through the tough times. Same with planting trees... I could type pages of examples where he adjusted his recommendations based on sponsorship. That’s why I quit following him a couple years ago. That and way too many commercials

I still think he is “The Deer Doctor” and truly respect his knowledge and opinions. Highly recommend a trip to the Proving Grounds as he and his family are great hosts. Just remember that he’s doing this to make a living while most of us are habitat managers because we are passionate and/or addicted

Re: Throw n Mow Q&A [Re: CNC] #2544793
08/05/18 09:37 AM
08/05/18 09:37 AM
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Yep……Many folks easily recognize it too when it’s someone pouring out a magic bag of powder that supposed to bring the big bucks running from miles away…….BUT…. when its thrown in there subtly amongst other good information by someone highly respected ….well, it’s not so easy to see anymore.

Last edited by CNC; 08/05/18 09:37 AM.

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