Get sunlight to the ground……periodically reset succession……..control woody species…... mix in a quality food plot system……maybe add in a little predator trapping…….Bada-bing, bada-boom!!!

Well maybe I should change my pic
How about this one - fire is still the best management tool in hardwoods


From N Alabama to Canada, early settlers described open 'Savannah" hardwood and mixed pine hardwood forests with lush understories of grasses, flowers and forbs. Even Chestnut


A good pub to look into!

What took you so long, ?! Fire is fine in low value hardwoods I suppose , least that's where I burn. No way I'm lighting one on the side of the mountain in high grade oaks. I'll let a logger stick a saw in them though. I like to grow big deer but I like big $ better.

Ahhh, hence the true conundrum. Landowners not willing to sacrifice growing fully stocked stands of pine or hardwood to grow an abundance of quality wildlife habitat! Does not matter whether you are growing either one if you cant sacrifice the stand stocking rate to let a little sunlight in for the wildlife habitat!! BTW, we burn high value hardwood stands all the time without damage. Depends on the burning technique and timing.

Our terra is varied , not like LA where every acre is basically the same and easy to control a fire . Any prescribed burning up here is on top of the plateau where the lower grade timber is and you can control the fire . Fire gets outa hand up here you have real problems. I've yet to talk to a state forester that has been trained on fighting mountain fires. They just do the best they can. Nobody in there right mind would light up on the side of the mountain much less North to East face where the real $ trees are. I visited Brent M yesterday at the mill he buys logs for there was one white oak butt cut worth 1,000 bucks , there were several more there close to that. Folks up here aren't lighting them up, me included. I'll just stick to doing it how I have in the past and settle for a mature 160" buck every now and then.

Y'all sell that high value hardwood by the ton?

Yep, pretty much how we ended up with the Gatlinburg fires 2 years ago Since nobody burns much up there and nature says it MUST burn occasionally, we can expect more Gatlinburgs in the future! However, I don't blame you. Burning on significant terrain is a challenge, we burn Coosa/Tallapoosa often and, while it isn't your mountains, it's pretty steep and varied. I do like burning terrain though. We don't get to burn flat ground often. If I actually lived and worked in LA, I might have more of a chance

Interesting statistic from that publication. Appalachian hardwood ecozone - pre European settlement burn interval was 13 years, post European settlement fire return interval 7 years, Modern fire return interval (with every fire put out) is 46 years!!! Think we are due for a big one like out west?!

Those settlers and native Americans weren't getting paid $1,000 per acre and up, sometimes way up, stumpage . You have several hundred acres of good, mature oak in our area we talkin' real $. If there's any fires in high end stands up here nature will have to set them.

As far as "out West" type fire , I'd figure our forests aren't as dry and we don't normally have days on end of high winds. I guess it's possible though.

You touched on our terrain , you should see some of our skidder drivers in action . Fearless, but mostly crazy . They say it ain't rough unless you roll one. I bet John Deere would be shocked at where they put those machines too.

Gobbler,
In the burned hardwood stand, was that stand thinned to that point where the larger mast producing trees were left and undesirable hardwoods were removed?

I didn't say they wouldn't do great. I said they wouldn't reach their potetential. Are you saying honeysuckle left alone will be as close to its potential as honeysuckle where the soil is amended? Really? I'll stick with what I said, amended soils will give better quality vegetation than non amended soils.

Im sure plenty of discussions similar to this were had before Gatlinburg!

We need to import some of your loggers down here. Usually they leave steep slopes uncut cause they don't want to go up n down em!



The smoking one, yes. We thinned it for wildlife habitat purposes. The other one is a oak savannah in the midwest.



The discussion is related to native understory habitat and fawning cover. Honeysuckle is not a native. Its an exotic invasive that deer like to eat. It is also not fawning cover, nor does it compose a significant part of most understories. Understory habitat is things like broomstraw and other Andropogon species, native forbs and legumes, etc that grow under open, sunny pine and hardwood forests that are properly maintained. They neither need nor utilize increases in pH (in acid dirt), nor do they respond particularly well to fertilizer. Often they do worse on limed and fertilized ground, so yes, they do reach their potential on "unamended" ground. They are evolved and adapted to the soil conditions on the areas they exist and do quite well with sunlight and fire.

Gobbler, y'all sell hardwood saw timber by the ton? If so how much a ton?

I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment.

Actually, just had 2 brothers move up there to cut the steep slopes was my understanding. Bill and Kirk Sanders.

Where they working and for whom? You know where they're selling their grade logs? Do they use only a cut down machine or will they go old school and use a saw? Where some of the best timber grows must be cut with a saw and pulled with a cable to get the grapple to it. There are spots just too steep and rough that just can't be safely cut by the best locals. Some do have the "if it grows, we'll get it" motto. And it's all good till you roll a skidder, dozer or truck back in the mountains. I suspect their idea of steep and the locals idea is gonna be very different.

I’m just throwing out a guess here so don’t scold me too bad if it’s wrong…….but hypothetically if we were gonna burn some mountain hardwoods I’m guessing we would do it with a high humidity 35% maybe???.....probably want a little moisture in the fuel……low winds……back fires starting at the top of the slope burning toward the bottom….Low intensity being the goal.

I agree with both sides on this one. I think it’s possible to do but I also don’t know how much I would gamble on it if I were a landowner. Me personally, if I had hardwoods on my land worth a lot of money then I’d sell the chit out of them and leave just enough good producers to make an oak savannah.

Plenty of steep ground as far south as southern Clarke County where the two big rivers come together. No truth to the statement about the loggers. I’ve worked both areas and 9 out of 10 loggers are all the same when it comes to handling steep slopes. No difference at all in what they will cut, period.

Turkey you can't convince the hillbilly hero any different.

And you can't show me.


You've worked timber on mountain sides in Jackson , DeKalb or Cherokee counties?

I figured it was about time for you to stir the pot bout something you know nothing about.

North Monroe County would surprise some folks, as well.

Brad , how does that area compare to where you fought that fire up on the Tenn. line? Some pretty rugged terra back in those coves.

Also , it don't count if you leave timber standing like Gobbler was talking bout.