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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465308
04/21/18 09:43 AM
04/21/18 09:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681 Slidell, La
perchjerker
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
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That's what is taught in La class too.
Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!
If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465311
04/21/18 09:48 AM
04/21/18 09:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,449 Marshall County
FurFlyin
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,449
Marshall County
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It may have been due to the circumstances. If I read your story, 3 people were kidnapped. Two males and a female. Female gets raped then shoots the kidnapper/rapist. I'm far from being a LEO, but in my mind it seems as though the shooting part would have taken place before the rape. I sure don't know the whole story, so everything may be on the up and up, but the police were probably trying to figure out how all of that happened as well.
I have a lifelong friend who shot a guy in the chest during the middle of the day in a Craigslist deal gone bad. Bad guys got the jump on him and put a gun to his head. He took advantage of a distraction, grabbed the bad guys gun hand, pushed it away and stuck his pistol to his chest and fired. The shot guy, with help from the other bad guy, ended up getting away because the only follow up shots would have been in their back, so he didn't shoot more.
The police officer that arrived on the scene secured his firearm then shook his hand and thanked him for putting a bullet in the bad guy. The chief of police then rolls up on the scene, gets out of his vehicle and proceeds to shake his hand and thank him for being a licensed concealed carry citizen.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465316
04/21/18 09:56 AM
04/21/18 09:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,092 Chilton County
MarksOutdoors
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,092
Chilton County
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I'm sure that prolly 80% or more are claimed as self-defense even when they aren't. Police have to go through normal questioning protocols just as a formality. Just my personal opinion.
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465404
04/21/18 12:51 PM
04/21/18 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775 Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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I'm going to have to be very vague here with locations and such because as far as I know some of the legal stuff is still going on, though close to coming to an end. So, please bare with me and don't ask too much as I really don't want to answer.
An acquaintance of mine, not super close friend but not a stranger, shot and killed a man. This person is a female and was kidnapped along with two of her co-workers. What the person didn't know was that of the three people he kidnapped, the female had a concealed weapon. According to all three victims, the suspect told them he was going to kill them all, after robbing them, and raping her. When opportunity presented itself, the female victim pulled her pistol and unload it into the suspects chest, killing him. They called the police, who showed up and cuffed everyone. They end up taking only her to jail and kept her half the day, locked up. One of the co-workers notified her husband who went to the police station, where they wouldn't tell him anything. Wouldn't even confirm having her. The husband threatens to get an attorney to which the station responds if he does, she will stay in jail at least 24 hours. (Yeah, that confirmed she was there then). After half a day goes by, theu finally released her. My question, is it proper protocol to take someone to jail even on a justified shooting? I know the police have to figure out what happened but they had three victims all telling the same story. Also, if they weren't sure the female was telling the truth, why wouldn't they arrest the two men as well? To clarify, before anyone asks, she was not asked to go to the station to give statements. She was cuffed and arrested, then later released. I'll try to answer one at a time to the best that I can without all the facts; 1.The husband can threaten to get an attorney all he wants, but until she asks for one, the interview will proceed. 2. People are detained during investigations, even on what is later determined to be a justified shooting 3.The two men didn't shoot anyone 4. If she didn't have to make bail she wasn't arrested. You can be cuffed when you are legally detained for investigative purposes without being arrested. The are a lot of blank spaces in the story that need to be filled in for it to be complete and get an idea of whether the officers acted properly, ignorant but with good faith, or plain improperly.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465407
04/21/18 12:56 PM
04/21/18 12:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,956 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,956
Round ‘bout there
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I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465413
04/21/18 01:06 PM
04/21/18 01:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,796 The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
300gr
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,796
The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
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Glad she and the others made it out alive and the POS got what he deserved. So what if she was detained. She's alive!!!! As far as what the law says I can't rightly say. Thanks for posting Ford. Makes you wonder about the direction this country is headed if we don't intervene.
Last edited by 300gr; 04/21/18 01:07 PM.
Two roads diverged in the woods and I took the one with deep ruts,hills and mud.It may be bumpy but WHAT A RIDE!
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: Clem]
#2465423
04/21/18 01:19 PM
04/21/18 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775 Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.
Especially not after you just shot somebody.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465424
04/21/18 01:20 PM
04/21/18 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,711 behind my Dillon
dave260rem!
Skinny’s Ex
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Skinny’s Ex
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,711
behind my Dillon
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Massad Ayoob has been writing&teaching self-defense shootings and aftermath for 30+ years.Never speak to LE without your attorney present. Since LE will take the involved weapon an identical spare makes sense.
Skinny is my EX.Alcohol was involved.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: Clem]
#2465426
04/21/18 01:28 PM
04/21/18 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437 Your mom’s house
doekiller
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
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I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.
One thing I have learned over the years, everyone has the right not to speak without an attorney present, but few have the ability.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: doekiller]
#2465488
04/21/18 03:27 PM
04/21/18 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775 Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.
One thing I have learned over the years, everyone has the right not to speak without an attorney present, but few have the ability. Thankfully, many, if not most, criminals are not as smart as they think they are.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465523
04/21/18 04:13 PM
04/21/18 04:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,852 Cullman, AL
Ryano
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,852
Cullman, AL
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Why? It wasn't me. Just someone I know. Just asking how it's legally supposed to be handled. What tragedy have I posted about in the past? I called 911 on a unresponsive kid on spring break. I was robbed several years ago at a gas station but what else? Wasn't it you that had the fight with the mannequin? If so that was funny enough to tell again.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465585
04/21/18 06:14 PM
04/21/18 06:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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I'm fortunate to live in a place where our local sheriff and DA support your rights to use deadly force. I don't have a problem talking to my local LE without a lawyer. Hell I've known most of them my whole life.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465602
04/21/18 06:26 PM
04/21/18 06:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,417 FL
mw2015
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,417
FL
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Get an attorney and keep quiet. Never know who Leo is and reaction. Act like your friend to get you to talk. Say the wrong thing and they lock you up even if clear self defense. Even if cut and dry castle doctrine shut up and wait for attorney.
Michael Warren CPIA Your trusted insurance advisor for business and health insurance. ALDEER SPONSOR BUSINESS INSURANCE AND HEALTH INSURANCE IN FL AND AL http://mikewarreninsure.commikewarreninsuranceagency@gmail.com
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: ford150man]
#2465611
04/21/18 06:44 PM
04/21/18 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775 Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,775
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
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The problem isn't usually going to be that LE is looking to pin a Murder charge on you or looking to get you to say something incriminating with no cause. The problem is that you have just undergone a traumatic experience and your mind is racing with a million thoughts and you might say something that can be misconstrued and come back and haunt you later. Having a lawyer present can stop you from saying this or he can correct or clarify on the spot. He can hear these problems on the spot whereas you may not realize that wasn't exactly what you wanted to say until too late.
It used to be that when LEOs were involved in a shooting they wanted a statement as soon as possible while it was fresh on your mind. Now they recommend at least one good sleep cycle in order for things to have been processed in your mind. A smart officer, or person, consults with his lawyer and writes out a statement that his lawyer has read regarding the incident and presents this to the investigators. If they have any further questions as it regards to the criminal matter, they know to go through the lawyer. The protocol is different for police involved shootings as it pertains to the administrative side of the investigation.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Re: Justified shooting protocol??
[Re: jawbone]
#2465710
04/21/18 09:02 PM
04/21/18 09:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 850 Northern NY
Damyankee
Ground Bee Enthusiast
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Ground Bee Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 850
Northern NY
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The problem isn't usually going to be that LE is looking to pin a Murder charge on you or looking to get you to say something incriminating with no cause. The problem is that you have just undergone a traumatic experience and your mind is racing with a million thoughts and you might say something that can be misconstrued and come back and haunt you later. Having a lawyer present can stop you from saying this or he can correct or clarify on the spot. He can hear these problems on the spot whereas you may not realize that wasn't exactly what you wanted to say until too late.
It used to be that when LEOs were involved in a shooting they wanted a statement as soon as possible while it was fresh on your mind. Now they recommend at least one good sleep cycle in order for things to have been processed in your mind. A smart officer, or person, consults with his lawyer and writes out a statement that his lawyer has read regarding the incident and presents this to the investigators. If they have any further questions as it regards to the criminal matter, they know to go through the lawyer. The protocol is different for police involved shootings as it pertains to the administrative side of the investigation. Good explanation. Thanks.
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