Velvet
by James. 04/29/24 08:31 AM
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The Ethics of Game Cameras
#2366091
01/10/18 09:26 AM
01/10/18 09:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
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I must be bored today to start this, but it's a gloomy day outside and I don't have an indoor project going, so I will ask about something I've been thinking about.
Back when I was really interested in deer hunting, I did a lot of scouting in the weeks between the first week of the season and the rut. I would obviously look for scrapes and rubs, but also just looked for a big track. Some of the most enjoyable hunts I've ever had involved finding sign from a big buck, figuring out the best place to hunt him, and then setting up on him and actually killing him. Usually, I had no idea what his rack was like until I killed him, and it really didn't make a whole lot of difference. The challenge was to find a deer to hunt and then killing him; whether he turned out to be a 6 point or a 10 point had nothing to do with the enjoyment of the hunt. And most of the time the deer won and I never even saw him.
I have friends now who belong to big clubs and they don't hunt this way. They run a line of cameras until they find a deer that has the type of antlers that they want and then hunt that deer. I have one friend that has killed several really nice bucks by hunting this way.
I will probably make some folks mad just by bringing up the subject, but I really don't wanna criticize anyone at all. It's legal to hunt this way and I would do it too if I really wanted to kill a deer. Still, I can't help but feel like this method of hunting is taking something away from the sport. If this is the way people grow up hunting, they will likely never develop the ability to read sign. It also seems somewhat unfair to the deer to use technology to this level to hunt him. I'm not saying it should be illegal, just wondering if I'm the only person on here who has ever thought about this? I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.
I also think hunting with cameras causes hunters to put too much emphasis on antlers. If you hunt the old way, it becomes more about the hunt and the size of his antlers doesn't make as much difference to the hunter. When all the emphasis is on finding the perfect rack, and you feel bad about shooting a mature buck that has less than perfect antlers, I think that is bad for the sport. I think it could lead to some giving up deer hunting because they can't kill a buck like they see on television.
There is no putting this toothpaste back into the tube, but I think game cameras have done more bad than good for deer hunting. Am I the only believes this?
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366116
01/10/18 09:41 AM
01/10/18 09:41 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910 Clanton, AL
Out back
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
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I still scout, find sign, and hunt the old way. But my patience has grown thin with age. I like to see what they look like, too. I just don't share the pictures with anyone. Show one person the pictures and by tomorrow you'll have 20 cousins, nephews and uncle Harry's preacher asking to hunt.
Last edited by Out back; 01/10/18 09:46 AM.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366139
01/10/18 09:55 AM
01/10/18 09:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,784 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,784
USA
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I think it could lead to some giving up deer hunting because they can't kill a buck like they see on television.
For me, it's just the opposite. It keeps me hunting longer. If I know there's a mature shooter or two on the place, that'll keep me warm and comfortable a little longer on that 20 degree morning. When I first started hunting as a teenager, I had legitimate doubts as to whether a deer existed on our place.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: Remington270]
#2366141
01/10/18 09:56 AM
01/10/18 09:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 9,541 Montgomery, AL
jbc
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 9,541
Montgomery, AL
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When I first started hunting as a teenager, I had legitimate doubts as to whether a deer existed on our place.
now you know there aren't?
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366151
01/10/18 10:00 AM
01/10/18 10:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,621 Alabama
Rmart30
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,621
Alabama
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To me as someone who doesnt have a itchy trigger finger I enjoy running cameras almost as much as I do hunting. Between me and my hunting buddy we will run 12-20 cameras. We do not run in and out checking cams all the time. I think that hurts or skunks up a lot of places. On some stands I may can see my camera from where im sitting hunting but I will not step foot out there to swap cards until the right time. Usually right before or during a big rain to wash scent away. Some cams may stay out from opening of gun season, until season is over. One I had last yr in a remote area I did not go collect until mid marchish. It had 9800 pictures and the best buck on cam from the property got his picture taken on March 2nd. Never would have known he wa even around without that. It helps to evaluate what kind, and how many deer are using each spot. Its amazing when you run multiple cams on a piece of property how you learn that some nice looking spots are just that. Nice looking spots but with little or no deer activity. Some places Ive learned its usually all doe and rarely ever see a buck. Others are almost all bucks and no does. You learn which bucks roam all the property, and which ones you only get on one spot. I learn some fields get almost zero daylight activity while others its a mix. Ive seen areas torn slap up in rubs and scrapes thinking it was a monster buck using it, but when cam finally ckd it end up to be just a fired up little 125# 4 pt.
Use them as learning tools and they are productive IMO.
Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal. Aldo Leopold .. (except when it comes to trailer tags)
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366159
01/10/18 10:04 AM
01/10/18 10:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,358 Kennedy, al
globe
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,358
Kennedy, al
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Nowadays checking my cameras are a form of hunting to me and I really enjoy it. It's exciting to me, especially if I put a camera over a scrape. I don't hunt based on them though. I had pics of a huge 8 that I didn't hunt one time. Didn't fit into my schedule and hunting with the kids.
Everything woke turns to shucks
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366206
01/10/18 10:34 AM
01/10/18 10:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 668 Ms
FX4
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 668
Ms
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Yeah we shouldn't use technology against em. We should all hunt in a loin cloth with a sling shot. Seriously, I hunted the same way when I was younger.(over 50 crowd) Now I use cameras and actually enjoy it as much as hunting. I do know I let a lot more bucks reach maturity now than I did then especially knowing there are bigger bucks to hunt. Back then I would kill the first rack buck to walk by, and the second, and the third until I limited out. Now I average a buck every 2-3 years and sometimes hunt the same buck several years. I don't understand why you think its an ethical issue but to each his own. As long as your hunting legally and not encroaching on my rights, have at it.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366208
01/10/18 10:37 AM
01/10/18 10:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,508 Northport
Bamarich2
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,508
Northport
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Like with anything else, people will abuse the use of game cameras and utilize them in poor ways. However, people do that with anything that is designed to improve things (i.e. think about how people use cars today). Here are the benefits to game cameras that I have personally witnessed.
* It gets me more acquainted with the deer herd I'm hunting. Not only do I understand more about the bucks I'm hunting, but I also keep up with the does. This helps me do a better job of knowing how to manage the herd and predators (kill more/less does, start going after coyotes more, etc.). It also helps me keep up with the timing of the rut. * It keeps me from shooting borderline bucks. I primarily "woods hunt", so when I have chances at big deer it usually happens in 5-10 second increments. With few moments to actually judge a deer, it helps if you've seen that deer prior to the encounter. When I hunt in an area, I usually will review pics from that area to remember what I'll shoot and what I'll pass - and it's greatly helped me. * It helps me sit longer. The older I get, the more impatient I get on stand. Knowing a good deer is in an area keeps me in a stand longer - sat until 10:30 in a stand Saturday morning, something I'd NEVER have done in earlier years. * It provides a means of bonding with other hunters. Some of my favorite interactions w/ folks I hunt with are conversations about trail cam pics. I sometimes get excited about a pic they share with me... and vice-versa. We also keep up with one another and tend to share more information with each other (which helps all of us be more successful and have enjoying hunts). * It helps me understand if a leased property is worth keeping. With the amount of $$$ a person has to pay to lease property today, the LAST thing we want is to be pouring $$$ in a piece of property that doesn't have deer/turkey on it - or has a habituation problem like neighborhood dogs roaming the place. It also helps with detecting trespassers as well. * It allows me to track the growth of bucks. I hunted an 8-point this year that ended up being broken up a week ago. I have pics of that particular buck for three years now - and the growth between years has been enjoyable to watch. This idea also helps me with the preceding point (is the place worth the $$$). * It gets me involved in hunting year-round. In the past, when deer season was over, I'd abandon that place until turkey season... and then do the same until fall planting. Now, I am on the properties I hunt more often and I learn more - it's that simple.
I think a lot of the people who are against game cameras are guys who get to hunt a lot - retired people, those who have a lot of off time, etc. A lot of the things I mentioned up top here CAN be done IF you stay in the woods a lot. The issue for me is that I can't get into the woods that often because of work, family, etc. Again, I'm sure people use them in ways that are negative, but what innovation isn't going to see the same thing?
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: jbc]
#2366217
01/10/18 10:45 AM
01/10/18 10:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,784 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,784
USA
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When I first started hunting as a teenager, I had legitimate doubts as to whether a deer existed on our place.
now you know there aren't? Pretty much...
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: 3toe]
#2366240
01/10/18 11:02 AM
01/10/18 11:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 668 Ms
FX4
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 668
Ms
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I use my cameras to see how many gobblers are on the place. Who cares about deer. I wish somebody would come shoot all these dang gobbles on my place. They eatin up all my corn.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: Remington270]
#2366241
01/10/18 11:03 AM
01/10/18 11:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,032 Alabama
Shaneomac2
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,032
Alabama
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I have thought about it too, and I see what you mean. But for me, the game cameras are half the fun. agreed. And he is right its all about the antlers, that is the only reason i will kill a buck. If i want meat i will kill a doe. But with a buck you get two for one.lol.As long as its in the rules i could care less how anyone kills an animal.
Last edited by Shaneomac2; 01/10/18 11:09 AM.
Georgia Football..Acts like Bama but has a trophy case like South Carolina.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366245
01/10/18 11:06 AM
01/10/18 11:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095 Anniston, AL
ikillbux
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
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Thought worthy. Hadn't ever considered that, but I don't feel any ethical quams about it. I've often thought that a 500 yard rifle is the same way, I think that's a lot more of an unfair advantage than a camera. I don't personally care for crossbows for similar reasons. I don't know, the deer still have the advantage...I can know he's there, be able to shoot him at 500 yards, yet never see the rascal all season long!!! But I'm also strictly a sport, trophy hunter (I don't care anything about eating the meat, and only shoot mounter bucks). My point is even with the cameras, long range firearms, etc, I still often get none, or one or two shot opportunities an entire season. They got all the advantage!
Last edited by ikillbux; 01/10/18 11:08 AM.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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Re: The Ethics of Game Cameras
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#2366263
01/10/18 11:21 AM
01/10/18 11:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,095 Right behind you
Mbrock
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,095
Right behind you
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I love cameras, but I can’t say they’ve increased my success on killing mature bucks one bit. I killed just as many without a camera as I have with them. I like to see inventory, and develop a hit list of shooters. That way I know what to expect and I think it increases the likelihood of shooting the right deer(for those interested in shooting age over antlers). Usually, if I shoot a deer I wouldn’t have otherwise it’s on a place I have no cameras or a deer I have had no pics of. That doesn’t take away from the hunt or the excitement, but for me, I’d rather shoot a mature 105” deer than a 3 year old 125”. If I recognize the deer immediately because of pictures I’ve studied, and if I have to make a split second decision, the pictures increase the odds of making the right choice.
I don’t think they take away from finding sign and learning woodsmanship. I still hunt deer sign, travel routes, food sources just like I always have. Finding good sign is a sure bet I’ll put a camera there. That takes out the guesswork of what the deer looks like. If I find sign, place a camera, and discover it’s more than likely a 115” three year old putting it there then I move on. If I find that’s its a 4+ year old deer I’ll hunt. I don’t like wasting time in the woods on deer I’m not going to kill.
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