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Re: The Ark? [Re: Joe4majors] #2230846
09/19/17 09:37 AM
09/19/17 09:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,381
Chelsea, AL
lefthorn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: SouthBamaSlayer

Originally Posted By: 87dixieboy
I tend to like these discussions and love reading everyone's views on this. Ill ask this question since it has been asked to me before and Im no scholar so ill see what yalls opinions are.

When cain killed able, who did he fear would kill him. In the bible he clearly references "the others." So the Lord placed a mark on him. If you go onto the next timeline of births it leads to some questions.

I had a person try and tell me one time kind of like it is being mentioned here. That their were other people and that adam and eve were the "first jews" created.


He could have just meant the others as in the rest of his family. When Abel was murdered, Cain could have been a hundred or two hundred years old. If he was a few hundred years old, that's a good amount of time for his siblings and kids to have a considerable amount of offspring. There's no other reference in the Bible that would hint at other humans being in existence that didn't come from Adam and Eve.


So where did Cain's wife come from?


His sister

Re: The Ark? [Re: lefthorn] #2230847
09/19/17 09:39 AM
09/19/17 09:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,889
Mobile, AL
S
SouthBamaSlayer Offline
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Originally Posted By: lefthorn

Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: SouthBamaSlayer

Originally Posted By: 87dixieboy
I tend to like these discussions and love reading everyone's views on this. Ill ask this question since it has been asked to me before and Im no scholar so ill see what yalls opinions are.

When cain killed able, who did he fear would kill him. In the bible he clearly references "the others." So the Lord placed a mark on him. If you go onto the next timeline of births it leads to some questions.

I had a person try and tell me one time kind of like it is being mentioned here. That their were other people and that adam and eve were the "first jews" created.


He could have just meant the others as in the rest of his family. When Abel was murdered, Cain could have been a hundred or two hundred years old. If he was a few hundred years old, that's a good amount of time for his siblings and kids to have a considerable amount of offspring. There's no other reference in the Bible that would hint at other humans being in existence that didn't come from Adam and Eve.


So where did Cain's wife come from?


His sister


Or niece. Incest was allowed until sometime in Leviticus.

Re: The Ark? [Re: Joe4majors] #2230848
09/19/17 09:39 AM
09/19/17 09:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
AUstan23 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: SouthBamaSlayer

Originally Posted By: 87dixieboy
I tend to like these discussions and love reading everyone's views on this. Ill ask this question since it has been asked to me before and Im no scholar so ill see what yalls opinions are.

When cain killed able, who did he fear would kill him. In the bible he clearly references "the others." So the Lord placed a mark on him. If you go onto the next timeline of births it leads to some questions.

I had a person try and tell me one time kind of like it is being mentioned here. That their were other people and that adam and eve were the "first jews" created.


He could have just meant the others as in the rest of his family. When Abel was murdered, Cain could have been a hundred or two hundred years old. If he was a few hundred years old, that's a good amount of time for his siblings and kids to have a considerable amount of offspring. There's no other reference in the Bible that would hint at other humans being in existence that didn't come from Adam and Eve.


So where did Cain's wife come from?


Sister


It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he has been fooled.
Re: The Ark? [Re: lefthorn] #2230858
09/19/17 09:54 AM
09/19/17 09:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,400
northport
deadeye48 Offline
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Originally Posted By: lefthorn
I answered who lucifer was, a fallen angel (not only any angel, but one of the archangels, a cherub) who was cast down to earth after he got too big for his pants


You answered what Lucifer was not who and while youre attempting that answer back up and answer the rest of my questions if you can because ive certainly answered yours


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: The Ark? [Re: perchjerker] #2230859
09/19/17 09:54 AM
09/19/17 09:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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Clem Offline
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Ah, so Cain was an Alabama fan.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: The Ark? [Re: Joe4majors] #2230861
09/19/17 09:55 AM
09/19/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,400
northport
deadeye48 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: SouthBamaSlayer

Originally Posted By: 87dixieboy
I tend to like these discussions and love reading everyone's views on this. Ill ask this question since it has been asked to me before and Im no scholar so ill see what yalls opinions are.

When cain killed able, who did he fear would kill him. In the bible he clearly references "the others." So the Lord placed a mark on him. If you go onto the next timeline of births it leads to some questions.

I had a person try and tell me one time kind of like it is being mentioned here. That their were other people and that adam and eve were the "first jews" created.


He could have just meant the others as in the rest of his family. When Abel was murdered, Cain could have been a hundred or two hundred years old. If he was a few hundred years old, that's a good amount of time for his siblings and kids to have a considerable amount of offspring. There's no other reference in the Bible that would hint at other humans being in existence that didn't come from Adam and Eve.


So where did Cain's wife come from?


I would have to say his sister also


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: The Ark? [Re: deadeye48] #2230863
09/19/17 09:55 AM
09/19/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,889
Mobile, AL
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SouthBamaSlayer Offline
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Originally Posted By: deadeye48

Originally Posted By: lefthorn
I answered who lucifer was, a fallen angel (not only any angel, but one of the archangels, a cherub) who was cast down to earth after he got too big for his pants


You answered what Lucifer was not who and while youre attempting that answer back up and answer the rest of my questions if you can because ive certainly answered yours


Please list your questions in a clear, concise format contained in one post, and we will do our best to give you answers to them all.

Re: The Ark? [Re: Clem] #2230866
09/19/17 09:56 AM
09/19/17 09:56 AM
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Posts: 10,400
northport
deadeye48 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Clem
Ah, so Cain was an Alabama fan.


No its not really clear if Alabama is mentioned in scripture so it doesn't exist and never did


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: The Ark? [Re: deadeye48] #2230868
09/19/17 09:58 AM
09/19/17 09:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,400
northport
deadeye48 Offline
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Originally Posted By: deadeye48
You are correct he is not a man but he was not an angel/messenger. He was the anointed cherub and was adorned with jewels very similar to the high priests urim and thummim.
If being adorned as a priest who was he a priest for?
Why did he have a throne?
What man has been cast out of heaven?
What man has walked in the midst of the stones of fire?
It is very clear that he was cast out before the recreation story.



Here you go


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: The Ark? [Re: Peach] #2230870
09/19/17 10:00 AM
09/19/17 10:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
ikillbux Offline
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Anniston, AL
Originally Posted By: Peach
Originally Posted By: westflgator
Originally Posted By: jbc
Originally Posted By: westflgator
Originally Posted By: deadeye48

Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: deadeye48
Why would there even be a debate whether or not dinosaurs were on the ark because there is nothing definitive in scripture concerning the animals on there. Didn't Marco Polo write about seeing large flying reptiles ??


I don't know about Marco Polo, but many a mariner did write about seeing Mermaids.

Dinosaurs predated man by millions of years. No overlap. You're right, it's not really a debate.


You do know there are cave drawings depicting dinosaur like animals and there is a dry riverbed in (Texas) i think ...it has fossilized human and dinosaur tracks in it?


There are also human and dinosaur fossils in the same fossil beds found relatively close together. The whole argument of evolutionists is that different strata mean different time periods. There is evidence all over the world to debunk that but it's still taught to our kids regardless. An example would be fossilized trees going through multiple layers of strata (supposed millions of years worth) upside down with the roots facing upward. These have been found in multiple places around the world but you see a picture of one in a science book because it doesn't fit their agenda.


Link?


We have a video series on creation vs. evolution and the scientific evidence that supports creation. I don't have a link to it, but in the series, he does source all of the info he puts forth. I will try and watch them again and write down all his main sources. The trees are fairly common and there are pics of them that can probably be found and a simple search.

Here's a link. And yes I know this guy got convicted of tax evasion and it definitely hurt his ministry. However, he still puts forth very solid evidence for creation and for a worldwide flood. He also holds his own very well with the evolutionist that I've seen him debate. I would say he won all of the debates that I've watched (videos not in person).

The guys name is Ken Hovine and he is a scientist. I went to one of his seminars years ago and thought it was amazing. He really changed a lot of my thoughts on creationism and used good evidence to prove his points.


Kent Hovind (Dr. Dino) is awesome!!! Yeah, he got jailed for tax evasion, but that was really a pissing contest between him and the government (I think they came after him because he was a such a force against them). One thing in particular that he said that I still chew on today...In the middle of a long list of genealogies, he draws attention to a man named Peleg and notes that he's the only one who had a qualifier ("in his days the earth was divided"). Divided? Well, if you look at the lifespan of the men before him, they lived hundreds of years. And those who lived after him had substantially shorter lives, like half as long. What happened? The flood!!! Peleg lived during the flood. So why did people begin dying at half the age afterwards? Hovind suggests that prior to the flood there was a canopy of water in the earth's atmosphere, literally a layer of water encompassing the earth. Water blocks UV rays, and UV is the worst degenerator, it kills! God wouldn't have created the earth originally without protection from the UV rays of the sun. Hovind says there wouldn't have been enough water within the earth to flood the whole earth (think about it, that's basic science really), so the bulk of the water came from that atmospheric layer. Whatever caused the flood was such a catastrophic event that it collapsed that water layer. (FYI, that could also be what killed the dinosaurs, along with the flooding) Anyway, you see where I'm going with all that, and it connects to what we've been discussing above.

Last edited by ikillbux; 09/19/17 10:01 AM.

We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
Re: The Ark? [Re: ikillbux] #2230871
09/19/17 10:03 AM
09/19/17 10:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
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Clem Offline
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Round ‘bout there
Quote:
And those who lived after him had substantially shorter lives, like half as long. What happened? The flood!!! Peleg lived during the flood. So why did people begin dying at half the age afterwards?


Mold, probably. Mold is bad ju-ju.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: The Ark? [Re: ikillbux] #2230875
09/19/17 10:06 AM
09/19/17 10:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
AUstan23 Offline
10 point
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KY

Originally Posted By: ikillbux
Originally Posted By: Peach
Originally Posted By: westflgator
Originally Posted By: jbc
Originally Posted By: westflgator
Originally Posted By: deadeye48

Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: deadeye48
Why would there even be a debate whether or not dinosaurs were on the ark because there is nothing definitive in scripture concerning the animals on there. Didn't Marco Polo write about seeing large flying reptiles ??


I don't know about Marco Polo, but many a mariner did write about seeing Mermaids.

Dinosaurs predated man by millions of years. No overlap. You're right, it's not really a debate.


You do know there are cave drawings depicting dinosaur like animals and there is a dry riverbed in (Texas) i think ...it has fossilized human and dinosaur tracks in it?


There are also human and dinosaur fossils in the same fossil beds found relatively close together. The whole argument of evolutionists is that different strata mean different time periods. There is evidence all over the world to debunk that but it's still taught to our kids regardless. An example would be fossilized trees going through multiple layers of strata (supposed millions of years worth) upside down with the roots facing upward. These have been found in multiple places around the world but you see a picture of one in a science book because it doesn't fit their agenda.


Link?


We have a video series on creation vs. evolution and the scientific evidence that supports creation. I don't have a link to it, but in the series, he does source all of the info he puts forth. I will try and watch them again and write down all his main sources. The trees are fairly common and there are pics of them that can probably be found and a simple search.

Here's a link. And yes I know this guy got convicted of tax evasion and it definitely hurt his ministry. However, he still puts forth very solid evidence for creation and for a worldwide flood. He also holds his own very well with the evolutionist that I've seen him debate. I would say he won all of the debates that I've watched (videos not in person).

The guys name is Ken Hovine and he is a scientist. I went to one of his seminars years ago and thought it was amazing. He really changed a lot of my thoughts on creationism and used good evidence to prove his points.


Kent Hovind (Dr. Dino) is awesome!!! Yeah, he got jailed for tax evasion, but that was really a pissing contest between him and the government (I think they came after him because he was a such a force against them). One thing in particular that he said that I still chew on today...In the middle of a long list of genealogies, he draws attention to a man named Peleg and notes that he's the only one who had a qualifier ("in his days the earth was divided"). Divided? Well, if you look at the lifespan of the men before him, they lived hundreds of years. And those who lived after him had substantially shorter lives, like half as long. What happened? The flood!!! Peleg lived during the flood. So why did people begin dying at half the age afterwards? Hovind suggests that prior to the flood there was a canopy of water in the earth's atmosphere, literally a layer of water encompassing the earth. Water blocks UV rays, and UV is the worst degenerator, it kills! God wouldn't have created the earth originally without protection from the UV rays of the sun. Hovind says there wouldn't have been enough water within the earth to flood the whole earth (think about it, that's basic science really), so the bulk of the water came from that atmospheric layer. Whatever caused the flood was such a catastrophic event that it collapsed that water layer. (FYI, that could also be what killed the dinosaurs, along with the flooding) Anyway, you see where I'm going with all that, and it connects to what we've been discussing above.


Why not just create the Sun to not be harmful? Why create a harmful sun then a water canopy that floods the Earth and kills everyone regardless of their relationship with God. Unless somehow the sun only became harmful after original sin, which I doubt that's the cause of skin cancer.


It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he has been fooled.
Re: The Ark? [Re: Clem] #2230876
09/19/17 10:06 AM
09/19/17 10:06 AM
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Posts: 10,400
northport
deadeye48 Offline
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northport

Originally Posted By: Clem
Quote:
And those who lived after him had substantially shorter lives, like half as long. What happened? The flood!!! Peleg lived during the flood. So why did people begin dying at half the age afterwards?


Mold, probably. Mold is bad ju-ju.


HA!! THATS A GOOD ONE!!

The thought is that the atmosphere didn't contain as much oxygen in the years after the flood of noah


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: The Ark? [Re: deadeye48] #2230883
09/19/17 10:12 AM
09/19/17 10:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,889
Mobile, AL
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SouthBamaSlayer Offline
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Originally Posted By: deadeye48

Originally Posted By: deadeye48
You are correct he is not a man but he was not an angel/messenger. He was the anointed cherub and was adorned with jewels very similar to the high priests urim and thummim.
If being adorned as a priest who was he a priest for?
Why did he have a throne?
What man has been cast out of heaven?
What man has walked in the midst of the stones of fire?
It is very clear that he was cast out before the recreation story.



Here you go

He was the angel in charge of worship.
The throne refers to God's throne, which he dwelt around. He wanted that throne because he wanted to be viewed as or more important than God.
Also, Ezekiel 28 is about as clear as mud as to whether he was talking about an earthly king, satan, or a combo of both (most theologians hold this theory).

Re: The Ark? [Re: perchjerker] #2230886
09/19/17 10:14 AM
09/19/17 10:14 AM
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Mobile, AL
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Originally Posted By: AUstan23

which I doubt that's the cause of skin cancer.


Before sin, there was no death and no sickness, we were meant to live forever. So yes, the origins of skin cancer can be traced back to the original sin. I'm not going to enter the "harmful/harmless sun water cloud argument."

Re: The Ark? [Re: perchjerker] #2230894
09/19/17 10:19 AM
09/19/17 10:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,953
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
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Round ‘bout there
Don't forget about the mold.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: The Ark? [Re: perchjerker] #2230895
09/19/17 10:19 AM
09/19/17 10:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
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Chelsea, AL
I'm staying out of this particular thread for the most part. I've written extensive posts and have had extensive discussions and debates on here on these topics in years past. I'm tired so I'm not getting into it again.

One thing strikes me though, so I'll comment.

People prior to Adam, a flood before Adam...some have mentioned that that is kind of way out there....no proof at all...kinda whack. I'd agree. But so is Evolutionary Theory! Manmade, manipulated data and coverups to fit a Progressive agenda that gained enough support to be considered "fact" by just saying it is fact without real hard evidence. Kinda whack also.

ikillbux is spot on regarding the real issues at hand. People cherry pick when to apply God's word as True and Authoritative to fit themselves and their own beliefs.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: The Ark? [Re: perchjerker] #2230896
09/19/17 10:20 AM
09/19/17 10:20 AM
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Posts: 10,400
northport
deadeye48 Offline
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Lucifer makes it clear that it has a throne and wants it to be greater than Gods.
WHere do you see he was an angel in charge of worship?

You left out the part in EZE where it says he has been in Eden.
Also what man has been in the holy mountain of God and walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
You left out the priestly adornment too


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: The Ark? [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2230907
09/19/17 10:29 AM
09/19/17 10:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,126
KY
AUstan23 Offline
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Originally Posted By: SouthBamaSlayer

Originally Posted By: AUstan23

which I doubt that's the cause of skin cancer.


Before sin, there was no death and no sickness, we were meant to live forever. So yes, the origins of skin cancer can be traced back to the original sin. I'm not going to enter the "harmful/harmless sun water cloud argument."


Yea I get that I just think disease coming about from a man eating an apple from a talking snake is allegory and not literal

*Not to mention the fact that the mere existence of "sin" denotes it has a creator, which in Biblical terms must be God, which is contradictory to the abilities of omnibenevolent being. You could argue not true because he only gave free will and then we chose to sin, but still he is denoting what is defined as sin. The roads led back to the Creator because everything has to come from somewhere. What I'm getting at is trying to reconcile Omni benevolence with sin and creation.

Last edited by AUstan23; 09/19/17 10:43 AM.

It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he has been fooled.
Re: The Ark? [Re: Recurve] #2230915
09/19/17 10:37 AM
09/19/17 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,615
Lake View, AL
Joe4majors Online content
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Originally Posted By: Recurve
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
Originally Posted By: deadeye48
So everyone else is wrong when they have presented evidence that man and dinosaurs coexisted?


You're welcome to provide evidence. But, as a scientist it gets old seeing stuff that's a complete lie and then other people buying into it simply because they don't know any better. Carbon dating can only be used to date things back to 40,000 years or so. No real scientist has ever claimed that carbon dating can date anything into the millions of years. Other radioactive isotopes, with longer half lives, are used for dating rocks containing dinosaur bones.


Didn’t they use C12 to aid in dating with C14 because C12 is constant? I ask because I think I read where there are issues with C12. Mainly being doubt on whether or not the amount of C12 actually remained constant? If that is the case, it calls into question the dating methods used. I may be wrong on this and quite frankly, whether the earth is 6k years old or billions it doesn’t change my faith. Point is, I’m just posting this asking a serious question and 1) I don’t think this is the hill for Christians to die on and 2) it doesn’t invalidate the Bible.


The ratio of 13C to 12C (stable isotopes) is used for a slight correction of the 14C data, which decays with time. My comment wasn't in reference to corrections for radiocarbon needed to fine-tune the calibrated ages. My point is that 14C is not used to date anything past about 40,000 years. Using 14C for dating rocks containing fossils from dinosaurs is like saying you can use a pipe wrench to fix a Rolex (not even remotely the right tool for the job, can't be done).

Other radioactive isotopes are needed to figure out the age of some rocks (not all rocks can be dated). For example, radioactive uranium eventually decays to stable lead through a crazy complex process (see below). I'm all about debate, but we're all going to be beating our heads against the wall with what is being said about science (14C to date dinosaurs) being so far from accurate.

The age of the earth, etc. was something that literally kept me up at night when I was in my mid-20s. I did several years of research and afterwards my faith was stronger than before. I also accepted that there were some things that I would never figure out, and I'm perfectly OK with that.

I see a couple options with there being many many lines of observations that the earth is very old (radiometric dating, plate tectonics, etc.).

1) The earth is very young but what we can observe is simply there to deceive us (fossils in rocks of organisms that never lived, chemistry of rocks altered to make us thinks rocks are older than they are, actually using GPS to measure landmasses moving is just another trick, along with earthquakes and volcanoes being concentrated around plate boundaries, and the list goes on and on).

or

2) The days of creation are not meant to be literal and the earth actually is very old (which doesn't undermine anything with God being the creator of the universe and Christ redeeming us of our sins). If you are dead set on a literal translation, read Matthew 5:29-30 and report back.


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