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Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: Shotts] #2174788
07/24/17 06:41 AM
07/24/17 06:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,699
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,699
Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted By: Shotts
Originally Posted By: Irishguy
I took a look at some video on the Fox news site and it seems to support my suspicion of the bracing being omitted. Had the tension rod bracing been installed there would be evidence of it bent up like pretzels all over the carnage and I don't see any of it.

Someone's head ought to roll over this one. If the bracing was indeed left out and they were thinking of installing it last, it was a huge construction management mistake.


Did it pull the strip footing from the ground? or shear the connection bolts? From the standing water I am betting it pulled the strip footing.


I probably did some of both.

Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2174801
07/24/17 06:52 AM
07/24/17 06:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,546
Mobile, AL
soalaturkeys Offline
10 point
soalaturkeys  Offline
10 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,546
Mobile, AL
At this point, it's ALL conjecture. You should see the comments on al.com, good grief! One thing is certain...the insurance company(s) gonna hire the best forensic company they can find to get to the bottom of it. Hopefully, it'll be clear, but sometimes in building steel structures, shucks happens, trust me, I know! Early in my career, I had designed a tank structure with several huge tanks. Everything was cool until the tanks got loaded up. The daggone flanges of the W section I used for the columns started separating from the webs, you could see daylight for several feet where the web meets the flange. We went to the steel supplier, who said it wasn't their steel, it was my design. Oh, boy! Long story short, my calculations got checked and rechecked by a team of structural engineers, study of the beams under a microscope and tests by a testing lab proved the beams were flawed, the manufacturer had to foot the bill for replacing the columns. But, as a freshly minted engineer, I was sweating bullets!!


"For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America" ~Benjamin Franklin

Isaiah 40:13-14

RAP is CRAP

NRA Life Member, GOA, BamaCarry Member
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2174821
07/24/17 07:04 AM
07/24/17 07:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,699
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,699
Lickskillet, AL
Here's the highest resolution image I can find... I find it unusual that there is not one rod tension brace. Every "Butler" style building I have ever been associated with has diagonal rod tension braces.


Last edited by Irishguy; 07/24/17 07:09 AM.
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: Irishguy] #2174826
07/24/17 07:09 AM
07/24/17 07:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,546
Mobile, AL
soalaturkeys Offline
10 point
soalaturkeys  Offline
10 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,546
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted By: Irishguy
Here's the highest resolution image I can find... Show me one diagonal rod tension brace. Every "Butler" style building I have ever been associated with has diagonal rod tension braces.


Dude, I hear ya...looks like those pick-up sticks game I played with as a child...just looks like a pile of steel and metal, I can't tell what's what. I just don't know at this point.


"For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America" ~Benjamin Franklin

Isaiah 40:13-14

RAP is CRAP

NRA Life Member, GOA, BamaCarry Member
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2174828
07/24/17 07:11 AM
07/24/17 07:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,832
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks Online happy
Freak of Nature
leroycnbucks  Online Happy
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,832
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
I'll know more in the next few days when all the reports are in. I hate it for the University and the football program because I know how much they were / are looking forward to this facility. But like I said earlier it could have been much worse. It will be completed but it's obvious not for a while now.


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2175028
07/24/17 11:06 AM
07/24/17 11:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,881
Monroe County, AL
D
deadeye Offline
14 point
deadeye  Offline
14 point
D
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,881
Monroe County, AL
Two weeks before it fell....



A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams

He alone is educated who has learned the lessons of open-mindedness

Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: deadeye] #2175067
07/24/17 11:49 AM
07/24/17 11:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,699
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,699
Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted By: deadeye
Two weeks before it fell....





Bingo. Surprised it didn't fall sooner. Zero diagonal bracing.

Here's what I bet:

It was designed for the lagging (siding) to provide the lateral bracing of the structure (acting as a diaphragm) so until the lagging gets installed it is vulnerable to any kind of wind load.

If that is the case then they should have use guy wires anchored into the ground on either end of the structure to resist wind loading.

It's a shame.

Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2175108
07/24/17 12:39 PM
07/24/17 12:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7 Offline
Booner
Southwood7  Offline
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Looks like they installed lateral temporary bracing on the roof but NO bracing where the walls would be. Also, as Irish said, no diagonal bracing. I used to design light gauge steel roof truss systems and we always provided a temporary bracing layout and if the customer wanted an engineered sealed bracing layout we would provide that as well. There will be a lot of finger pointing but I bet it won't be hard to place the blame. I've been on the hot seat in those meetings and it is NOT fun.



The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2175166
07/24/17 01:32 PM
07/24/17 01:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211
North Alabama
W
Wiley Coyote Offline
Freak of Nature
Wiley Coyote  Offline
Freak of Nature
W
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211
North Alabama
You can bet the farm that this project had complete, stamped drawings and somebody skipped a page when they put her up.


I firmly believe that a double gallows should be constructed on the East Lawn of The White House. Politicians who willfully and shamelessly violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America should be swiftly tried and, upon conviction, publicly hanged at sunup the day after conviction. If multiple convicts are to be hanged they can choose with whom to share the gallows or names shall be drawn from the hangman's hat to be hanged 2 at a time.




NRA Life Member
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2175197
07/24/17 02:03 PM
07/24/17 02:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,308
Alabama
W
whack-n-stack Offline OP
Booner
whack-n-stack  Offline OP
Booner
W
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,308
Alabama
Who was the CM?

Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: Wiley Coyote] #2175311
07/24/17 03:49 PM
07/24/17 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,725
Birmingham
W
wew3006 Offline
Booner
wew3006  Offline
Booner
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,725
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote
You can bet the farm that this project had complete, stamped drawings and somebody skipped a page when they put her up.

No doubt; have dealt with GMC and they are a first rate engineering construction firm. Somebody did not follow the plan

Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2175325
07/24/17 04:00 PM
07/24/17 04:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,101
Bagley Al.
Jmxinc Offline
10 point
Jmxinc  Offline
10 point
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,101
Bagley Al.
Lucky no one was hurt


Every day's a gift !
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: Irishguy] #2175443
07/24/17 05:50 PM
07/24/17 05:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,343
Foley, AL
A
Acorn Offline
8 point
Acorn  Offline
8 point
A
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,343
Foley, AL
Originally Posted By: Irishguy
Originally Posted By: deadeye
Two weeks before it fell....





Bingo. Surprised it didn't fall sooner. Zero diagonal bracing.

Here's what I bet:

It was designed for the lagging (siding) to provide the lateral bracing of the structure (acting as a diaphragm) so until the lagging gets installed it is vulnerable to any kind of wind load.

If that is the case then they should have use guy wires anchored into the ground on either end of the structure to resist wind loading.

It's a shame.


Check out the rendering on their website. It is a very unique structure. There were very few location options for vertical bracing, and as previously stated, none appeared to have been in place at the time of failure.
http://usajaguars.com/news/2016/12/2/usa...e-facility.aspx

Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: whack-n-stack] #2175464
07/24/17 07:18 PM
07/24/17 07:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
Lots of questions to be answered still:

Who designed the metal structure? Architect/Engineering firm (GMC) or metal building manufacturer?

What was called for regarding temporary bracing? How much was in? In correctly? Defects, omissions, etc..

Which sub was doing the metal structure?

Which structural engineering and materials testing firms were inspecting progress?

What issues, if any, were known before it fell? And by whom? The GC, subs, and design/engineering professionals all have a role in the process. How big a role and responsibility will be determined one of two ways: easy or litigious.

All the parties involved already know the answers. Builders Risk coverage has already been notified. Forensic engineering firm representing the carrier has already been on site or will be by tomorrow morning. I can guarantee you that every party is doing the same thing. Once that report is released, clean up, repairs, and more steel will commence.

Quite a big setback on completion date. Hate to see it.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: Remington270] #2175633
07/25/17 04:41 AM
07/25/17 04:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,104
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: soalaturkeys


Probably Ole Miss's AD. Black bears have USA first game and they'll need some help!

Still have to shake my head...Black bears...what the hell is wrong with Ole Miss Rebels?


I mainly just say it to piss off the Ole Miss folks. I like the Rebel name better myself. I do it for the same reason Aubies say "UAT"


Wrong. It's uat; we never capitalize it. smile

A shame about the building, and it's interesting how the engineers on here figured out what happened almost immediately.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: South Alabama football practice facility collapses during construction [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2175645
07/25/17 04:53 AM
07/25/17 04:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,832
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks Online happy
Freak of Nature
leroycnbucks  Online Happy
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,832
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: soalaturkeys


Probably Ole Miss's AD. Black bears have USA first game and they'll need some help!

Still have to shake my head...Black bears...what the hell is wrong with Ole Miss Rebels?


I mainly just say it to piss off the Ole Miss folks. I like the Rebel name better myself. I do it for the same reason Aubies say "UAT"


Wrong. It's uat; we never capitalize it. smile

A shame about the building, and it's interesting how the engineers on here figured out what happened almost immediately.



And just by looking at pictures plus without ever visiting the site or knowing anything about the project. Now I know how Matt and Jeremy feels. lol


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
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