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#2117110 - 05/18/17 11:06 AM Coyote Color Variations
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
Look at how different these two yotes look. They were taken from the same property.

Is it true that western coyotes mixed with red wolves and we have hybrids of the two? Is the redder color variation in the one dog caused from that influence? Not only the color….but even the eyes seem to have a little different look about them. I just thought it was interesting how different they looked. Both are females.

Yote #1



Yote #2



Yote #1 again…….



Yote #2 again……




Edited by CNC (05/18/17 11:07 AM)
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**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2117114 - 05/18/17 11:11 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
blumsden Offline
10 point

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 3554
Loc: Jacksonville, Alabama
According to the article Elkhunter put up, we have some that have bred with red wolves, because we have some completely black. I did'nt even know we still had red wolves around here. LOL

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#2117144 - 05/18/17 11:42 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
charlie Offline
10 point

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: mobile
The dna studies I have seen say the red wolf was never a wolf but a cross of the gray wolf and coyote.

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#2117153 - 05/18/17 11:56 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
Yelp softly Offline
10 point

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 3886
Loc: Central Alabama
The main difference that I see is that yote #1 looks pissed and #2 looks scared. Those first two pics are really cool.
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#2117165 - 05/18/17 12:34 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
charlie Offline
10 point

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 4223
Loc: mobile
[img:center]http://[/img]

This one was from a pretty urban area and looked to me at least to have some domestic dog in him from the thicker head and muzzle and legs. It is neat how they are all so different.

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#2117172 - 05/18/17 12:45 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
Turkey_neck Offline
14 point

Registered: 03/29/13
Posts: 7168
Loc: Clanton
We had some in marion junction when i hunted down there that were way bigger than yotes. I hole heartedly believe they had a lot of red wolf in them.
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#2117269 - 05/18/17 03:20 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
jlbuc10 Offline
14 point

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 7127
Loc: Auburn
CNC looks like it may have to do with them coming out of their winter coats and putting on the summer coat

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#2117272 - 05/18/17 03:26 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
North40R Offline
12 point

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 6243
Loc: South of 20/North of 10
Everyday, run of the mill coyotes!
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#2117276 - 05/18/17 03:31 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
jbc Offline
snowflake

Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 5860
Loc: Montgomery, AL
most of mine look about like that.

[img:center][/img]

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#2117278 - 05/18/17 03:33 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
jbc Offline
snowflake

Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 5860
Loc: Montgomery, AL
had this one a few years ago, never saw him other than on camera.

[img:center][/img]

[img:center][/img]

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#2117459 - 05/18/17 07:25 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
Mdees Offline
4 point

Registered: 04/19/13
Posts: 238
Loc: Mobile, AL
My first coyote kill was a nearly black(think like a really dark brindle color) over in Chatom. It was years before I saw another dark one but lots of reddish in the coats with some much more resembling the very pale western look. I've come across a few coy-dogs including one I killed in Monroe county that looked every bit as big as my GSD in the field. It was almost jet black and was a tad over 80 pounds.

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#2117546 - 05/18/17 08:31 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
icducks Offline
6 point

Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 1112
Loc: Albertville




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#2117604 - 05/18/17 09:02 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
cartervj Offline
14 point

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 9518
Loc: colbert county
We seen a solid black one last week.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/209...-just-a-hybrid/
Quote:
Mix it up
The eastern and red wolves showed no evidence of independent ancestry; their genomes could be explained solely by admixture between coyotes and grey wolves.

Previous, less comprehensive studies have found genetic and morphological reasons to recognise these wolves as separate species, and others have shown that they seem to be hybrids. Wayne’s study is unlikely to settle the matter. However, it is the highest-resolution look at the problem so far, says Roland Kays of the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences in Raleigh.

If Wayne’s team is correct, it could spell trouble for the red wolf. The US Endangered Species Act makes no mention of hybrids, so the red wolf might lose its protected status – and the millions of dollars spent on captive breeding and recovery programmes.

That would be unfortunate, says Wayne, because the hybrid red wolf’s small size may mean it is better adapted than a pure grey wolf to life in the south-eastern US.

“Maybe we can’t put a grey wolf in the American south-east,” says Wayne. “Maybe the top predator has to be a smaller wolf.”

The red wolf’s situation shows that the Endangered Species Act needs to catch up to reality, says Kays. “What we’re finding with today’s high-resolution genetic tools is that hybrids are everywhere,” he says. “To say it’s a hybrid, so it’s not worth protecting, just doesn’t work anymore.”
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#2117837 - 05/19/17 07:41 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
icducks.......I've seen one that looked anything close to that mounted one. That's pretty cool. It looks like it cross bred with a Corgi. grin

It actually looks real wolfy in the face? Do you mind sharing where it came from?


Edited by CNC (05/19/17 07:42 AM)
_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2117943 - 05/19/17 10:15 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: jlbuc10]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
Originally Posted By: jlbuc10
CNC looks like it may have to do with them coming out of their winter coats and putting on the summer coat


You may be onto something with the coat change but I still think there’s something going on there will different bloodlines.

Here’s another one from the same property. It shows a LOT of red and is pretty much completely red faced. That’s more than just difference in summer and winter coats isn’t it?




Edited by CNC (05/19/17 10:16 AM)
_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2117971 - 05/19/17 11:11 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: cartervj]
NWALJM Offline
4 point

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 411
Loc: Northwest AL
Originally Posted By: cartervj
We seen a solid black one last week.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/209...-just-a-hybrid/
Quote:
Mix it up
The eastern and red wolves showed no evidence of independent ancestry; their genomes could be explained solely by admixture between coyotes and grey wolves.

Previous, less comprehensive studies have found genetic and morphological reasons to recognise these wolves as separate species, and others have shown that they seem to be hybrids. Wayne’s study is unlikely to settle the matter. However, it is the highest-resolution look at the problem so far, says Roland Kays of the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences in Raleigh.

If Wayne’s team is correct, it could spell trouble for the red wolf. The US Endangered Species Act makes no mention of hybrids, so the red wolf might lose its protected status – and the millions of dollars spent on captive breeding and recovery programmes.

That would be unfortunate, says Wayne, because the hybrid red wolf’s small size may mean it is better adapted than a pure grey wolf to life in the south-eastern US.

“Maybe we can’t put a grey wolf in the American south-east,” says Wayne. “Maybe the top predator has to be a smaller wolf.”

The red wolf’s situation shows that the Endangered Species Act needs to catch up to reality, says Kays. “What we’re finding with today’s high-resolution genetic tools is that hybrids are everywhere,” he says. “To say it’s a hybrid, so it’s not worth protecting, just doesn’t work anymore.”


“Maybe we can’t put a grey wolf in the American south-east,” says Wayne. “Maybe the top predator has to be a smaller wolf.”

The day they introduce grey wolves around here is the day I stop going to the woods.


Edited by NWALJM (05/19/17 11:11 AM)

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#2117974 - 05/19/17 11:18 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
I came across this book last night and did some skimming through it. I found it to be interesting because it was published in 1909. Scroll down just a little ways and check out the map that shows 'the current wolf distibuition in the US”…..

http://rageuniversity.com/PRISONESCAPE/POLICE%20DOG%20EVASION/Wolf%20and%20Coyote%20Trapping.pdf


Edited by CNC (05/19/17 11:19 AM)
_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2117997 - 05/19/17 11:49 AM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
For you yote trappers there’s a set they show in that book that I haven’t seen before in any of the Youtube videos and such. I thought it was pretty cool. It’s a “bank set”. Basically you find a 5-7 ft tall bank or something along those lines and make a set at the top right near the edge……..as if the yote is on top of the hill approaching the dropoff. You place your bait right on the edge of the drop off and use some kind of structure….trees, bushes, whatever to funnel the yote to it. Your trap is set back I think it said 20 inches from the bait. Once the yote steps in the trap it falls off the bank and hangs there immobilized.

Kinda like so……..

_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2118037 - 05/19/17 12:51 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
icducks Offline
6 point

Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 1112
Loc: Albertville
Originally Posted By: CNC
icducks.......I've seen one that looked anything close to that mounted one. That's pretty cool. It looks like it cross bred with a Corgi. grin

It actually looks real wolfy in the face? Do you mind sharing where it came from?


I killed it about 1/2 mile from the city limits of albertville. Taxidermist said he was 99% sure it was crossed with a dog. Said he had never seen one like it. I shot it for a coyote at dusk and when I got to it thought I had shot someone's dog.
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#2118286 - 05/19/17 07:29 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner

Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 11304
Loc: Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: CNC
Look at how different these two yotes look. They were taken from the same property.

Is it true that western coyotes mixed with red wolves and we have hybrids of the two? Is the redder color variation in the one dog caused from that influence? Not only the color….but even the eyes seem to have a little different look about them. I just thought it was interesting how different they looked. Both are females.

Yote #1



Yote #2



Yote #1 again…….



Yote #2 again……




Those seem pretty small. Is that the average size that you see?
_________________________
83% of all statistics are made up.


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#2118300 - 05/19/17 07:58 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: icducks]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
Originally Posted By: icducks
[quote=CNC]
I killed it about 1/2 mile from the city limits of albertville. Taxidermist said he was 99% sure it was crossed with a dog. Said he had never seen one like it. I shot it for a coyote at dusk and when I got to it thought I had shot someone's dog.


Something happened for sure. I grew up in that area and have never seen anything like that. There’s a lot of yotes and yard dogs crossing paths though so I could see how it could happen. Are you sure you just didn’t shoot the neighbor’s dog and have it stuffed in your house. grin
_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2118302 - 05/19/17 08:00 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: N2TRKYS]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
[Those seem pretty small. Is that the average size that you see?


Five of six were females in the 30-35 lb range give or take. I think the one male was young and not really much bigger. I’ve never really paid enough attention to it over the years while just hunting to be able to know if that’s big or small. The next time I’m in a sporting goods store I’m gonna get some digital scales so we can check out some of them and see what kinds of weights we’re all running.

It looks there’s the potential to have numerous blood lines in the lineage of the yotes running around our woods. When that book was published in 1909 it said there were no coyotes east of the Mississippi but identified numerous subspecies in the west overlapping a lot of wolf territory between here and there. The transition from what they had then to what we have now couldn’t have been a perfectly clean one. Just look at that thing icducks killed.



Edited by CNC (05/19/17 08:07 PM)
_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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#2118325 - 05/19/17 08:24 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
N2TRKYS Offline
Booner

Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 11304
Loc: Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
[Those seem pretty small. Is that the average size that you see?


Five of six were females in the 30-35 lb range give or take. I think the one male was young and not really much bigger. I’ve never really paid enough attention to it over the years while just hunting to be able to know if that’s big or small. The next time I’m in a sporting goods store I’m gonna get some digital scales so we can check out some of them and see what kinds of weights we’re all running.

It looks there’s the potential to have numerous blood lines in the lineage of the yotes running around our woods. When that book was published in 1909 it said there were no coyotes east of the Mississippi but identified numerous subspecies in the west overlapping a lot of wolf territory between here and there. The transition from what they had then to what we have now couldn’t have been a perfectly clean one. Just look at that thing icducks killed.



They look like foxes with longer legs. It could be that their size is deceiving in the pics.
_________________________
83% of all statistics are made up.


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#2118347 - 05/19/17 09:05 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
cartervj Offline
14 point

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 9518
Loc: colbert county
_________________________
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." – Tacitus (ca. 110)

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#2118632 - 05/20/17 12:15 PM Re: Coyote Color Variations [Re: CNC]
CNC Offline
12 point

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 6072
Loc: Macon Co
This is another snip it from the wolf and yote book written in 1909..........

In the western parts of the United States, the coyote is far more abundant than the grey, or timber wolf, but its range is more limited as it is found only in those parts lying west of the Mississippi River and in the western portion of the Dominion of Canada. As there are a number of varieties of the timber wolf, so it is with the coyote, but naturalists have never yet been able to agree on the number of types and their distribution. In the Southwest, it appears there are several distinct varieties, showing considerable difference in size and color. Mr. Vasma Brown, a noted coyote trapper of Texas has the following to say on the subject:

"I have lived in Texas nineteen years and have had some years of experience with the coyotes, coons and cats. Some coyotes are of a silver-grey color, others are dark brown. The ends of their hair are jet black and it makes them look brown. Some have black tips on the tail and some white. The dark variety are the most vicious of the two."


Edited by CNC (05/20/17 12:15 PM)
_________________________
**** For a tracking dog in Macon, Lee, Russell, Barbour, Bullock, Pike, Montgomery, Elmore, Tallapoosa, or Chambers County…..Call or Text 334-421-1811....****

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