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How accurate is this? #1986554
01/10/17 06:31 PM
01/10/17 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,842
Lake View, AL
Joe4majors Online content OP
10 point
Joe4majors  Online Content OP
10 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,842
Lake View, AL
Saw this posted on FB by a processor I've used in the past. I'm certainly still a rookie, but a lot of what I have read elsewhere doesn't support some of the logic mentioned below.

"Here is a good example on why you should shoot cull bucks. This deer weighed in at 180 pounds and is estimated at 4-5 years old. It was never going to amount to a good buck and had all those years to breed does and create several generations of bad genes. If you are trying to manage your deer herd to grow bigger, better deer you have to remove the trash from the heard. Letting bucks walk that are not 8 points or better does not necessarily create bigger deer. There are a few key signs that the buck is a cull... first look at the deers body... a thick chest and neck, a sagging belly and swooped back are signs of a buck that has reached maturity. Now look for signs of bad genetics in the rack. Little or no brow tines, a poorly branched mane frame on one side, a large fork, spike, or deformed frame on the other, (Look for signs of injuries) Good mane beams with short tines, or a twisted and gnarled frame. Remember the biggest buck is not always the dominate buck in the area. One could have have mature trash bucks like the one in the picture staking claim to the land keeping the bigger bucks pushed out. A mature trash buck is just as smart as a mature 10 point with a 150 inch rack. But the buck that claims the area gets the does! And trash creates more trash!"

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986555
01/10/17 06:36 PM
01/10/17 06:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,154
Tuscaloosa
Beadlescomb Offline
Booner
Beadlescomb  Offline
Booner
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,154
Tuscaloosa
Sounds like bs to me


We will burn that bridge when we get there
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986556
01/10/17 06:40 PM
01/10/17 06:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,267
Auburn Al
mauvilla Offline
8 point
mauvilla  Offline
8 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,267
Auburn Al
Club I was in for years the old timers that were in it forever always said the same thing

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986558
01/10/17 06:48 PM
01/10/17 06:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 546
Cantonment,Fl
H
hyco Offline
4 point
hyco  Offline
4 point
H
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 546
Cantonment,Fl
Killing that 1 deer will not make any difference. You would have to kill mom and dad too to make sure you got the right bad gene side. Aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, half brothers, half sisters, sons and daughters. Plus any thing left from all 4 grandparents. ,in other words. You can not change the genetic makeup of a wild deer herd,.


take your kids hunting and you won't be hunting your kids
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986562
01/10/17 07:02 PM
01/10/17 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,156
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
I snorted the Viagra.....
perchjerker  Offline
I snorted the Viagra.....
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,156
Slidell, La
Anyone that can't grasp why there are NO cull bucks needs to attend a deer seminar with a deer biologist. ONE MORE TIME. to end bad traits you'd have to kill all the does too. You don't know who was his mother. A DOE GIVES HER OFFSPRING HALF HIS GENES. The phase CULL BUCK is used to justify killing a poor buck. Kill it, Stop trying to justify it. CULLINg is non existant on free range deer. The STATE isn't going to allow you an extra buck because you are such a wonderful hunter.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-scouting/the-facts-and-truth-about-culling-bucks

http://www.gon.com/hunting/the-real-skinny-on-shooting-cull-bucks

If you really want to learn about deer and deer hunting refer to this site. Forget Facebook,idiots posting crap for idiots to read. Grant Woods is a famous Deer biilogist.

http://www.growingdeer.tv/



If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms� is,� as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986609
01/11/17 01:32 AM
01/11/17 01:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,014
louisiana
D
deerman24 Offline
8 point
deerman24  Offline
8 point
D
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,014
louisiana
not only bucks that determine quality of deer. Doe also determine that, maybe more so than bucks

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986612
01/11/17 01:36 AM
01/11/17 01:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,114
Jacksonville, Alabama
B
blumsden Online content
10 point
blumsden  Online Content
10 point
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,114
Jacksonville, Alabama
It wont change the dynamics of a wild deer herd, but if you want to shoot it because you don't want it eating up your plots, then go ahead. Age is what should be the determining factor, not rack size, if your trying to manage a property.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986613
01/11/17 01:38 AM
01/11/17 01:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 682
North Alabama
Y
yelkca280 Offline
4 point
yelkca280  Offline
4 point
Y
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 682
North Alabama
I agree and disagree. If you ever get a gene flowing with a spike on one side and developed rack on the other you are screwed. Anytime you remove a potential breeder from the population it will reduce the possibility of that gene becoming more dominant.

That can be seen in the human genetics just the same. Whole lot of folks with African American,Asian, Hispanic blood coursing through there veins that look like just some old white dude.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986644
01/11/17 02:30 AM
01/11/17 02:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 881
crenshaw county
Squadron77 Offline
6 point
Squadron77  Offline
6 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 881
crenshaw county
So injury, food source or sickness will not affect the growth of a rack? There are more things that can cause a bad rack than genetics. If you kill a buck with a bad rack you may be killing the most perfect genetic buck in your herd.


963 days until retirement!
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986667
01/11/17 03:00 AM
01/11/17 03:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,571
Dallas County
jawbone Offline
Booner
jawbone  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,571
Dallas County
Foremost is someone has to have the ability to be able to age them on the hoof. I can do fairly decent at this if the deer is broadside to me and will hold still for a few seconds. They don't often do this.

Remember that genetics are a funny thing. First off there are two parents involved and then there are the dominant and recessive gene traits involved. How many big old men do you know with little children and vice versa? It doesn't always work like we would think it would.

Unless you really know what you are doing, it is best to let him walk if you are looking for a real trophy. If for no other reason, your day is through when you drop a "cull". If he is a trophy to you, and your group rules allow it, drop him if you want. We try to pass on the older deer with lesser racks with the understanding that these are deer we would be pleased if our guests and kids shoot them. Then everyone is happy.

Worrying about this too much kind of makes a person the Hitler of the Deer World trying to create the perfect deer by exterminating the lesser examples. Overdramatic, I know, but y'all get the point.


Excuse the sanctimony.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986670
01/11/17 03:05 AM
01/11/17 03:05 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,040
PDL, Fl
T
timbercruiser Offline
Old Mossy Horns
timbercruiser  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
T
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,040
PDL, Fl
I've heard that shooting culls won't help, especially on here, but on my land in Pike county I had a big problem with spike on one side bucks so I started shooting every one I could see about 18 years ago. I havn't seen a SOOS buck in the past three years either in a plot or in the thousands of pictures of deer I get at my feeders. Maybe the SOOS bucks migrated somewhere else. I also shoot all bucks without brow tines.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986689
01/11/17 03:22 AM
01/11/17 03:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,593
Helena, AL
A
AU338MAG Online content
8 point
AU338MAG  Online Content
8 point
A
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,593
Helena, AL
I believe most people who argue for culling bucks are just looking for a justification to kill any buck they see. I've seen this in a couple of clubs. When I was a guest at my brothers club last year, someone brought in a 4 point which was maybe 2 years old and claimed it was a cull. We have people in my own club who attempt to put together a hit list of supposed cull bucks they have on camera. Bullschitt.

The majority of hunters in Alabama cannot accurately age deer on the hoof. Once a buck reaches 4-1/2 years, it can be very difficult to differentiate between 4-1/2 and 6-1/2. Any biologist worth a damn will tell you it is impossible to cull undesirable traits from a free-ranging deer herd in Alabama.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986698
01/11/17 03:34 AM
01/11/17 03:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Pcola,FL
P
pcoladoc Offline
spike
pcoladoc  Offline
spike
P
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Pcola,FL
Here is a brief review of antler development factors from MSU biologists.
http://fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/antler.pdf

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986703
01/11/17 03:39 AM
01/11/17 03:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,657
Behind your shadow
R
Reloader79 Offline
Bitch Peas, I'm a Kitty Whisperer
Reloader79  Offline
Bitch Peas, I'm a Kitty Whisperer
R
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,657
Behind your shadow
You can't manage an open range deer population, to many strays run through and breed all the Momma's too. Pretty much impossible.


If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Bluetick serpentines around green fields and rock spit a lease
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986714
01/11/17 03:51 AM
01/11/17 03:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 733
Alabama
P
PapaJ Offline
4 point
PapaJ  Offline
4 point
P
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 733
Alabama
Sounds like some folks just want to watch deer instead of killing deer. That's mostly the way that I am now, but I'm an old fart who killed my fair share when I was younger. This "only shoot a monster" has gotten way out of hand,unless you want to have a buck killed on the property maybe every 5 or 6 years in most places in Alabama. Admittedly, there is a challenge to that, which can be satisfying to some people. Lots of money and angst spent chasing pine goats, IMO. It stops being fun when you teach people to be afraid to pull the trigger because they may face the scorn of others and/or imposed fines. That being said, if you want to let deer walk, that's fine with me, because that is what I do. I do not, however, let them walk under the illusion that next year midwest-sized bucks will appear every time I hunt.

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986715
01/11/17 03:51 AM
01/11/17 03:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,442
Auburn
J
jlbuc10 Offline
14 point
jlbuc10  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,442
Auburn
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
mane beams

I wonder if they are hairy? rofl

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986729
01/11/17 04:05 AM
01/11/17 04:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,028
Pelham
Ben2 Online content
Aldeer Sponsor
Ben2  Online Content
Aldeer Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,028
Pelham
We try to kill 4+ yr old deer regardless of antler size. However we have a 6 pt gene and are seriously considering shooting 6 points at 2 or 3 years old for a few years to see if there is any difference by not letting 6 points live to be 5 or 6 yr olds. If nothing else could killing a 6 pt at 3 keep him from running off a 2 yr old 9 pt when he is 4 or 5?

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986745
01/11/17 04:15 AM
01/11/17 04:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,870
Chelsea, AL
lefthorn Online content
gave the right one away to get this tag line
lefthorn  Online Content
gave the right one away to get this tag line
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,870
Chelsea, AL
Speaking of spike on one side deer, did anything ever come out of the study Auburn was doing a while back?

Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors] #1986878
01/11/17 05:29 AM
01/11/17 05:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,463
Oxford, AL
I
ikillbux Offline
10 point
ikillbux  Offline
10 point
I
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,463
Oxford, AL
I have often heard the MOM has "more" to do with it than the father. Have heard deer breeders talk about paying more for a doe than a buck. Just my opinion, but I think the idea of "cull" bucks is one of the worst myths in deer hunting. Even if it has scientific credibility, it has essentially no worth in field practice. It's like peeing in the ocean.

I also happen to like the crazy character on many deer that I see called "culls". One of my better deer was a spike on one side deer. Probably 5-7 yrs old, very heavy mass, just cool as crap!!!

Last edited by ikillbux; 01/11/17 05:32 AM.

We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Squadron77] #1986884
01/11/17 05:33 AM
01/11/17 05:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,463
Oxford, AL
I
ikillbux Offline
10 point
ikillbux  Offline
10 point
I
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,463
Oxford, AL
Originally Posted By: Squadron77
So injury, food source or sickness will not affect the growth of a rack? There are more things that can cause a bad rack than genetics. If you kill a buck with a bad rack you may be killing the most perfect genetic buck in your herd.


Preach!


We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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