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#1986554 - 01/11/17 12:31 AM How accurate is this?
Joe4majors Online   content
8 point

Registered: 01/17/14
Posts: 2174
Loc: Lake View, AL
Saw this posted on FB by a processor I've used in the past. I'm certainly still a rookie, but a lot of what I have read elsewhere doesn't support some of the logic mentioned below.

"Here is a good example on why you should shoot cull bucks. This deer weighed in at 180 pounds and is estimated at 4-5 years old. It was never going to amount to a good buck and had all those years to breed does and create several generations of bad genes. If you are trying to manage your deer herd to grow bigger, better deer you have to remove the trash from the heard. Letting bucks walk that are not 8 points or better does not necessarily create bigger deer. There are a few key signs that the buck is a cull... first look at the deers body... a thick chest and neck, a sagging belly and swooped back are signs of a buck that has reached maturity. Now look for signs of bad genetics in the rack. Little or no brow tines, a poorly branched mane frame on one side, a large fork, spike, or deformed frame on the other, (Look for signs of injuries) Good mane beams with short tines, or a twisted and gnarled frame. Remember the biggest buck is not always the dominate buck in the area. One could have have mature trash bucks like the one in the picture staking claim to the land keeping the bigger bucks pushed out. A mature trash buck is just as smart as a mature 10 point with a 150 inch rack. But the buck that claims the area gets the does! And trash creates more trash!"

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#1986555 - 01/11/17 12:36 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
Beadlescomb Offline
Booner

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 10762
Loc: Tuscaloosa
Sounds like bs to me
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#1986556 - 01/11/17 12:40 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
mauvilla Online   sleepy
6 point

Registered: 04/19/13
Posts: 1011
Loc: Auburn Al
Club I was in for years the old timers that were in it forever always said the same thing

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#1986558 - 01/11/17 12:48 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
hyco Offline
4 point

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 479
Loc: Cantonment,Fl
Killing that 1 deer will not make any difference. You would have to kill mom and dad too to make sure you got the right bad gene side. Aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, half brothers, half sisters, sons and daughters. Plus any thing left from all 4 grandparents. ,in other words. You can not change the genetic makeup of a wild deer herd,.
_________________________
take your kids hunting and you won't be hunting your kids

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#1986562 - 01/11/17 01:02 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
perchjerker Offline
Ornery Old Bastage

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 17835
Loc: Slidell, La
Anyone that can't grasp why there are NO cull bucks needs to attend a deer seminar with a deer biologist. ONE MORE TIME. to end bad traits you'd have to kill all the does too. You don't know who was his mother. A DOE GIVES HER OFFSPRING HALF HIS GENES. The phase CULL BUCK is used to justify killing a poor buck. Kill it, Stop trying to justify it. CULLINg is non existant on free range deer. The STATE isn't going to allow you an extra buck because you are such a wonderful hunter.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-scouting/the-facts-and-truth-about-culling-bucks

http://www.gon.com/hunting/the-real-skinny-on-shooting-cull-bucks

If you really want to learn about deer and deer hunting refer to this site. Forget Facebook,idiots posting crap for idiots to read. Grant Woods is a famous Deer biilogist.

http://www.growingdeer.tv/

_________________________
When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty ! Thomas Jefferson

"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin

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#1986609 - 01/11/17 07:32 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
deerman24 Offline
8 point

Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1711
Loc: louisiana
not only bucks that determine quality of deer. Doe also determine that, maybe more so than bucks

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#1986612 - 01/11/17 07:36 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
blumsden Offline
10 point

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 3496
Loc: Jacksonville, Alabama
It wont change the dynamics of a wild deer herd, but if you want to shoot it because you don't want it eating up your plots, then go ahead. Age is what should be the determining factor, not rack size, if your trying to manage a property.

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#1986613 - 01/11/17 07:38 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
yelkca280 Offline
4 point

Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 660
Loc: North Alabama
I agree and disagree. If you ever get a gene flowing with a spike on one side and developed rack on the other you are screwed. Anytime you remove a potential breeder from the population it will reduce the possibility of that gene becoming more dominant.

That can be seen in the human genetics just the same. Whole lot of folks with African American,Asian, Hispanic blood coursing through there veins that look like just some old white dude.

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#1986644 - 01/11/17 08:30 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
Squadron77 Offline
4 point

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 639
Loc: crenshaw county
So injury, food source or sickness will not affect the growth of a rack? There are more things that can cause a bad rack than genetics. If you kill a buck with a bad rack you may be killing the most perfect genetic buck in your herd.
_________________________
1236 days until retirement!

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#1986667 - 01/11/17 09:00 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
jawbone Online   content
14 point

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 9555
Loc: Dallas County
Foremost is someone has to have the ability to be able to age them on the hoof. I can do fairly decent at this if the deer is broadside to me and will hold still for a few seconds. They don't often do this.

Remember that genetics are a funny thing. First off there are two parents involved and then there are the dominant and recessive gene traits involved. How many big old men do you know with little children and vice versa? It doesn't always work like we would think it would.

Unless you really know what you are doing, it is best to let him walk if you are looking for a real trophy. If for no other reason, your day is through when you drop a "cull". If he is a trophy to you, and your group rules allow it, drop him if you want. We try to pass on the older deer with lesser racks with the understanding that these are deer we would be pleased if our guests and kids shoot them. Then everyone is happy.

Worrying about this too much kind of makes a person the Hitler of the Deer World trying to create the perfect deer by exterminating the lesser examples. Overdramatic, I know, but y'all get the point.
_________________________
War Eagle!

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#1986670 - 01/11/17 09:05 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
timbercruiser Offline
Booner

Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 13837
Loc: PDL, Fl
I've heard that shooting culls won't help, especially on here, but on my land in Pike county I had a big problem with spike on one side bucks so I started shooting every one I could see about 18 years ago. I havn't seen a SOOS buck in the past three years either in a plot or in the thousands of pictures of deer I get at my feeders. Maybe the SOOS bucks migrated somewhere else. I also shoot all bucks without brow tines.

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#1986689 - 01/11/17 09:22 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
AU338MAG Offline
4 point

Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 508
Loc: Helena, AL
I believe most people who argue for culling bucks are just looking for a justification to kill any buck they see. I've seen this in a couple of clubs. When I was a guest at my brothers club last year, someone brought in a 4 point which was maybe 2 years old and claimed it was a cull. We have people in my own club who attempt to put together a hit list of supposed cull bucks they have on camera. Bullschitt.

The majority of hunters in Alabama cannot accurately age deer on the hoof. Once a buck reaches 4-1/2 years, it can be very difficult to differentiate between 4-1/2 and 6-1/2. Any biologist worth a damn will tell you it is impossible to cull undesirable traits from a free-ranging deer herd in Alabama.
_________________________
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

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#1986698 - 01/11/17 09:34 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
pcoladoc Offline
spike

Registered: 04/15/16
Posts: 33
Loc: Pcola,FL
Here is a brief review of antler development factors from MSU biologists.
http://fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/antler.pdf

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#1986703 - 01/11/17 09:39 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
Reloader79 Offline
Bitch Peas, I'm a Kitty Whisperer

Registered: 09/14/15
Posts: 2723
Loc: Behind your shadow
You can't manage an open range deer population, to many strays run through and breed all the Momma's too. Pretty much impossible.
_________________________
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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#1986714 - 01/11/17 09:51 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
PapaJ Offline
4 point

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 664
Loc: Alabama
Sounds like some folks just want to watch deer instead of killing deer. That's mostly the way that I am now, but I'm an old fart who killed my fair share when I was younger. This "only shoot a monster" has gotten way out of hand,unless you want to have a buck killed on the property maybe every 5 or 6 years in most places in Alabama. Admittedly, there is a challenge to that, which can be satisfying to some people. Lots of money and angst spent chasing pine goats, IMO. It stops being fun when you teach people to be afraid to pull the trigger because they may face the scorn of others and/or imposed fines. That being said, if you want to let deer walk, that's fine with me, because that is what I do. I do not, however, let them walk under the illusion that next year midwest-sized bucks will appear every time I hunt.

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#1986715 - 01/11/17 09:51 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
jlbuc10 Online   content
14 point

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6951
Loc: Auburn
Originally Posted By: Joe4majors
mane beams

I wonder if they are hairy? rofl

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#1986729 - 01/11/17 10:05 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
Ben2 Online   content
Aldeer Sponsor

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 8466
Loc: Pelham
We try to kill 4+ yr old deer regardless of antler size. However we have a 6 pt gene and are seriously considering shooting 6 points at 2 or 3 years old for a few years to see if there is any difference by not letting 6 points live to be 5 or 6 yr olds. If nothing else could killing a 6 pt at 3 keep him from running off a 2 yr old 9 pt when he is 4 or 5?

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#1986745 - 01/11/17 10:15 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
lefthorn Online   content
gave the right one away to get this tag line

Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 2954
Loc: Chelsea, AL
Speaking of spike on one side deer, did anything ever come out of the study Auburn was doing a while back?

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#1986878 - 01/11/17 11:29 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
ikillbux Offline
10 point

Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 3792
Loc: Oxford, AL
I have often heard the MOM has "more" to do with it than the father. Have heard deer breeders talk about paying more for a doe than a buck. Just my opinion, but I think the idea of "cull" bucks is one of the worst myths in deer hunting. Even if it has scientific credibility, it has essentially no worth in field practice. It's like peeing in the ocean.

I also happen to like the crazy character on many deer that I see called "culls". One of my better deer was a spike on one side deer. Probably 5-7 yrs old, very heavy mass, just cool as crap!!!


Edited by ikillbux (01/11/17 11:32 AM)
_________________________
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.

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#1986884 - 01/11/17 11:33 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Squadron77]
ikillbux Offline
10 point

Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 3792
Loc: Oxford, AL
Originally Posted By: Squadron77
So injury, food source or sickness will not affect the growth of a rack? There are more things that can cause a bad rack than genetics. If you kill a buck with a bad rack you may be killing the most perfect genetic buck in your herd.


Preach!
_________________________
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.

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#1986887 - 01/11/17 11:35 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
SouthBamaSlayer Online   content
Gary's Fluffer

Registered: 08/21/14
Posts: 4954
Loc: South MS
Females contribute around 50.7% of the DNA to an offspring.

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#1986914 - 01/11/17 11:50 AM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: timbercruiser]
blumsden Offline
10 point

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 3496
Loc: Jacksonville, Alabama
Originally Posted By: timbercruiser
I've heard that shooting culls won't help, especially on here, but on my land in Pike county I had a big problem with spike on one side bucks so I started shooting every one I could see about 18 years ago. I havn't seen a SOOS buck in the past three years either in a plot or in the thousands of pictures of deer I get at my feeders. Maybe the SOOS bucks migrated somewhere else. I also shoot all bucks without brow tines.

From what ive read, SOOS bucks are bucks who have a pedicle injury and can't pass that on genetically to other deer, it comes from bucks fighting and an injury to the pedicle of the skull. That deer will always carry that trait on that side, so if you had 3 deer with that injury and you shot them that would certainly have eliminated you seeing anymore deer like that. Hope that makes sense.

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#1986928 - 01/11/17 12:00 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Joe4majors]
Booger Online   happy
10 point

Registered: 04/12/12
Posts: 3253
Loc: Tuscaloosa
Shooting a buck and claiming it is a cull buck is just a hunters way of pulling the trigger on a small buck and justifying their lack of trigger restraint. If it's a legal deer and your club allows you to shoot it then shoot it and be happy. If you know your going to have to justify the kill with the "it was a cull buck" excuse then don't shoot it.
_________________________
Whatever Archibald Rutledge wrote about hunting is well worth your time to read.

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#1986947 - 01/11/17 12:11 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: Booger]
jawbone Online   content
14 point

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 9555
Loc: Dallas County
Originally Posted By: Booger
Shooting a buck and claiming it is a cull buck is just a hunters way of pulling the trigger on a small buck and justifying their lack of trigger restraint. If it's a legal deer and your club allows you to shoot it then shoot it and be happy. If you know your going to have to justify the kill with the "it was a cull buck" excuse then don't shoot it.
Pretty much what I was trying to say, but Booger said it much more succinctly.
_________________________
War Eagle!

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#1986962 - 01/11/17 12:23 PM Re: How accurate is this? [Re: jawbone]
Booger Online   happy
10 point

Registered: 04/12/12
Posts: 3253
Loc: Tuscaloosa
Originally Posted By: jawbone
Originally Posted By: Booger
Shooting a buck and claiming it is a cull buck is just a hunters way of pulling the trigger on a small buck and justifying their lack of trigger restraint. If it's a legal deer and your club allows you to shoot it then shoot it and be happy. If you know your going to have to justify the kill with the "it was a cull buck" excuse then don't shoot it.
Pretty much what I was trying to say, but Booger said it much more succinctly.


That's what she said. smile
_________________________
Whatever Archibald Rutledge wrote about hunting is well worth your time to read.

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