I assume this comment is directed at me. So I will respond and continue the discussion. Stating of the bat that I understand the predator/prey relationship very well. Earlier, I discussed the history of the whitetail deer. The purpose for the discussion was to demonstrate what can happen when said predator/prey relationship is thrown out whack by external forces, in this case man. Studies have shown that when the prey species in this case deer are over harvested, That a predator pit can be created. The studies show that when the population gets to a certain level, it becomes impossible for the prey species to ever recover even if hunting is stopped completely. The coyote can basically halt almost all fawn recruitment. The study was written in the AON magazine. It is currently located in a different thread. The thread is titled, interesting artical on populations (deer) declining. It's about five posts down, for those interested.

A whitetails average home range is around a square mile , average coyote home range 20 square miles . Of course home ranges can overlap and vary. How many fawns will a pair of coyotes kill in a fawning season ? . How many weeks will they key in on them .. Think about the traveling coyote and the variability of the Rut in places . That same hunting pair of yotes can cruise for 3 months sucking up fawns possibly longer.

I am no spring chicken and have lived in many different places.One of those place was Kansas..You want to see and here a lot of coyotes?Go there.Oh yeah,even with all of those predators,they also have an enviable deer herd and many species of game birds we only wish we had..Coyotes are not the problem.

Worst problem I know of with coyotes is trying to raise watermelons around them.

Hey Ron,

Do you know how to move the GON article, to this thread? I don't know how. Anybody else know how, willing to help. I would greatly appreciate it.

Chevy , from my understanding the coyotes we are starting to deal with here in the south are not the same 30 to 35 pound rodent eating coyotes in Kansas . All of the coyotes we have here have dog and wolf in there genes, studies have been done on this as well , it varies a lot in the amount of wolf, or dog in the gene pool from area to area . I personally would just like to see some promotion of some sort to trap and hunt them. Hunting them is fun I've killed a handful calling , but it can be challenging, especially if they have been called before and shot at .
Codie I'm computer illiterate myself but I will give it a shot .

Codie here is the article about the predator pit . If you want to get the whole picture you have to read the whole article. It's An interesting read and makes a lot of sense . This predator pit may not be at your property yet but it could be if you kill to many does and they move in .

http://www.aonmag.com/article.php?id=2452

I know that we have hashed this thing out for yrs..Biologists say you fawn survival rate is basically the same with or without them..I will go with this and my own personal experience and tell you that they are not the problem most people think they are.I don't care if you kill and trap all you can it wont make a difference.

That's what I tried to tell Ron. Somehow he roped me into helping him. I blame the State of Alabama, 100% for the current state of the herd. Man is the problem, we all need to look in our mirrors. At current population levels, the coyote is a contributing factor. As the population declines they become a bigger threat by creating the predator pit. I don't expect to see quality hunting again in my lifetime. It's getting hard to make myself go. I've killed plenty of deer in my lifetime. I've passed through all the hunter stages and have no desire to kill does, fawns and small bucks at this time. I refuse to take part in the slaughter, I'm bearing witness to. I love hunting big bucks though and love watching deer. I'm sure I'll go as long as I'm physically able..

Codie don't pay Tros any attention. He probably was in a bad mood due to fruit picking time is going to be delayed this year with all the rain we've had.

I'm sorry,and don't know where you hunt,but we are loaded with deer and in places that has never had them..I understand people are not seeing what they think they should but we have tons of deer.

I'm not sure what you guys are trying to say? However, if you think there's more coyotes in this state than deer, you are very wrong. Let's just make that real clear and move on. Don't think otherwise and let your imagination run wild.

Are coyotes eating deer? Sure.
Are they helping bullets cause lower populations than 20 years ago? Highly likely.

Two totally different discussions.

Great job Ron, I'm proud of you. Thanks

I have seen more robins or black birds in my backyard over the last 3 weeks than any other animal in the state.

What we trying to say is man has already killed to many deer in some places , coyotes are keeping those places at the level they are at with no chance of coming back unless predators are removed and doe killing stops . Something needs to change so that more areas don't end up in the same boat .. I think these issues have been discussed about three times a week on here since the beginning of the season , for those of you still enjoying great hunting, I'm happy for you . The hunting here is Mediocre at best .

You are wrong!

just out of curiosity, what does your hunting area contain percentage wise,

young cutover versus older pine plantation, hardwoods etc....

Carter its a lot of planted pine in various stages of growth ranging from being cut now , to all the way to mature thinned pines. there are a lot of mature hardwood bottoms with creek, it's rolling hills along the chatahochee river basin . I know what is going on around here , and comparing a pine plantation eastern coyote to a grasslands western coyote is not the same . There are people here on Aldeer that live within 10 to 20 miles of me that are not exsoeriencing what is going on here . They have coyotes but thet don't have problems to the extent we have here. Either they have not killed the does off to the point that the groups are not large enough to protect the fawns or there property's habitate has better cover, or the coyote is not ranging out very far around them and still eating rodents and rabbits , or a combination of all three. hard to say. Coyotes are hard animals to figure out .. I have read where home ranges of coyotes can vary anywhere from a couple of Sqaure miles to 50 square miles .. Now you tell me that's going to be the same animal when it comes to hunting habits .. I think the remoteness of the land you hunt plays a part.. It allows that coyote to range out and hunt fawns without making contact with humans therfore establishing larger overlapping home ranges . Don't confuse the timberland coyote to the city park coyote dumping over trash cans .. They are adaptable and can withstand different anounts of human pressure just like a suburban deer. I know in large land masses where deer populations are low , coyotes are hurting the numbers. I know Alabama will probably never do anything about them, or change regs . hopefully they wil on WMA's and national forest so the poor working man who can't afford to lease land , or join a club can enjoy to hunt . A southern man that never learned or had an oppurtubity to hunt, has not had his balls drop yet .. Man was Born to hunt . Should do all we can to make it enjoyable for our kids . I don't see killing two does a day across the state very conservative , if it was a conservative republicans who made that decision to change regs , he should be held down and pissed on by big ears himself.

Don't think so!!

Well explain it for me then!

Or better yet let's just agree to disagree. I know what I had in game animals, what I've done with habitat improvements and predator control and I KNOW I have more game animals now. That's good enough for me!