It's my 4th year in the woods and I still have so much to learn. Thanks to everyone who contributes on this site because whatever I have learned has pretty much either been on here or what I have observed first hand in the woods.

So were getting closer to show time and I just want to make sure I'm not believing anything that's not true so correct me where I am wrong please.

With respect to the rut:

1. Fresh rubs can be found anytime from the shedding of velvet through antler drop and really don't mean much except that there is a buck in the area.

2. Scrapes also can also be found long before the commencement of the rut and may be one of a couple of things. Either simply another means of marking territory or a marking of territory and an advertisement to the doe population that he's "getting itchy". Again it really doesn't mean a whole lot until #3.

3. Fresh scrapes with doe poop in them mean something. This is a response to the buck's scrape mail in which she is saying "Hey big boy, I like what you're putting out and I'll give it up just as soon as you find and catch me, but don't worry I won't make you work too hard for it" ?

Right or wrong that's what I have come to believe so if I'm wrong someone please let me know.

Also, I'm still not exactly 100% sure of the timing. When that buck finds that poop and smells her urine in his scrape for the first time, is this the official beginning of the rut or is this the official beginning of the chase and what's the difference between the two?

Do does urinate and/or poop in scrapes before they are actually ready to mate?

If a doe is biologically ready to mate will she still make a buck chase or will she simply present herself to the buck?

How long will the chase last?

Does will all become biologically ready at the same time or within a few days of each other followed by another cycle 28 days later consisting of all does who were not successfully bred the first go round?

From the moment a doe becomes ready to mate, how long will she remain that way?

During the rut, bucks will not let does rest much which is why you should be in the woods all day long or any time you can get there?

Find the food and find the does and leave them alone. The heaving rubbing is usually a couple of weeks before it breaks out. Hunt as far down wind as your comfortable shooting of food and does and sit all day. You will start noticing running tracks in the roads etc. If you have a doe being chased by a small buck by you a lot of times big boy will be lagging behind several minutes.Those bucks will cruise down wind of doe bedding and feeding areas looking for a hot doe and you want to be further down wind than he is.

Your on the right track, the doe will stay in heat for about 2 or 3 days when she is ready to breed. I don't think the reason the bucks chase a doe is because she is holding out, she just isn't in heat. The younger bucks will chase does around because they are eager to breed and the does are not ready or in "heat". But in my honest opinion like wise to the post above, find the does/food and wait on the bucks to show up. I don't hunt a lot of buck sign, it is reassuring that he or they are in the area but I mostly hunt travel corridors, pinch points, saddles, and edges during the rut. The reason you want to hunt a lot during the rut phase is because the bucks are going to be most active during daylight and cruising ridges, saddles, doe feeding and bedding areas and travel corridors checking for a hot doe. Not sure what to tell you about the poop in the scrape except that they poop were they pee.

Don't worry about scraps or rubs. A doe will go into estrus around the new moon. The mature buck will find a doe close to estrus and stay with her until she is ready to breed and he will breed her for one to two days and then look for another doe. A mature buck may only breed 3-4 does a year. About the first quarter there are fewer does for the buck to breed so now you start seeing the mature bucks on their feet most of the day looking for does that haven't been bred. This is the best time to hunt and you will see bucks cruising around a food source or bedding areas. Here is one of the tricks that I have learned about the rut, if you or one of your buddies kill a mature buck get back in that stand as quickly as possible. Mature bucks are never alone in the rut, they are close to hot does and always have other bucks following them.

Never heard or noticed a deer crap in a scrape. That's a new one on me.

Good post.

It was mentioned on here last year when you start seeing a lot of scrapes you're around 30 days out from the peak of the rut. As long as scrapes are being cleaned out the bucks are out searching for and checking the nannies to see if the are coming into estrus. Hunt the does, and you'll probably have a chance at a buck during this time.

Thanks for the responses.

Maybe I should clarify. I'm not really looking to hunt the sign, when it really cranks up there is too much of it to do that anyway. I'm really trying to use the sign as a kind of a clock. Right now I see maybe a small handful of fresh scrapes. At a certain point I'll be covered up in them, they'll be fresh but empty. Then sometime after that I'll begin to see doe $hit in them. I'm really just trying to get the timing down with respect to scrapes. I don't intend to sit on any particular deer sign.

Good info here. Like the old joke about the young bull and the old bull, old bull doesn't chase . He knows when the does are in estrous and he eases in.

Studies have debunked the lock down phase. Some biologist are now saying that 24 hours is the upper limits. On average less. That helps explain why many does have twins fathered by different bucks. The only buck/doe I ever saw breed, was a wham bam thank you ma'am. Buck and doe happened upon each other , from different directions right in front of me. They did the deed and then went their separate ways. Whole show was less than 5 minutes.

I like those kind of meet ups too!

Have sern poop in scapes several times,you can even buy deer poop at most large hunting stores.here,swhat I do right aftter christmas.buy you a couple bottles of code blue doe estrous in the gel thype go to were most of your does are and take the swab sick in scent bottle and rub it on as many small trees as you can .not together but about 15 yards apart, preferably around your green feild.you will have bucks comeing you never new was there.if you dont believe me do this and put a camera watching the trees you rub the scent on.

Really deer chit?

t would be interesting to see what the antler characteristics of those fraternal twins would be like too. We have 2 sets of buck twins around, racks are near identical. If they were fathered by different bucks that would be a big piece of evidence that antler traits come from the does

I got to witness a nice little 8 pt(about 115") last year breed a doe several times one afternoon. That was the first time I had seen it in person. They were bedded together in a brush pile in the middle of a field. I jumped them on the way in. They kinda circled back around, but stayed in the same area all afternoon.

Sure would.

Couple of things. How in the heck do ya'll know if it was a doe or buck that pooped in a scrape? That's all new info to me. Deer of both sexes pee near or in scrapes. The pooping part is new to me. I've seen deer poop near scrapes during random occurrences, but poop is generally not used as a marking indicator in deer, or so I have always thought. They poop after leaving their bed and where they feed. This would be totally new info to me. Can y'all tell this is the first I've ever read that?

Also, the phase of the moon is in no way correlated with the timing of the rut. Does are genetically programmed to come into estrous about the same time period each year. Several studies have completely thrown out the moon phase/rut timing theory. Moon phase may very well have a slight impact on the timing of deer movement and feeding patterns, but not the timing of estrous.

I don't hunt buck sign much. It's been a futile endeavor for the last couple of decades. Only exception is finding clusters of rubs/scrapes in or near very thick cover.

I've seen deer poop in scrapes pretty regularly.

Yep, yep and yep.

Pooping in a scrape???? If you read the adjacent post about "Peeing" , the poop you are seeing in the scrapes was probably put there by one of those peeing/pooping hunters..