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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1544485
12/02/15 03:34 AM
12/02/15 03:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 249 Central AL
Kounse
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Central AL
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Where does the "You need to kill X number of does for every 100 acres" come from??? If you're supporting the killing or need of killing does... let me ask you this question: BASED ON WHAT DATA for "YOUR" property?
Stop killing for the sake of killing when you don't know how many or IF you need to reduce your deer pop!
And, stop blaming the QDM or QDMA on excessive killing of does. Deer mgmt states to kill does ONLY if you need to!
Deer carrying cap changes based on timber practices, predation, etc... it's a moving target but make logical decisions based on what's best for your deer herd and not your desires. Get educated on deer weights, milk present in does and if no milk, could it be reasons of predation or too many does or... NOT ENOUGH bucks? Are you killing too many immature bucks? Spend some time attempting to educate yourself about deer mgmt and not what you hear at the coffee shop!
Last edited by Kounse; 12/02/15 03:38 AM.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1544498
12/02/15 03:45 AM
12/02/15 03:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 249 Central AL
Kounse
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Central AL
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I grew up with a dad who was born in 1923 and he grew up in South AL. There wasn't a huntable deer population for much of his life and he preached NOT shooting any does and if you killed a doe, you were a very bad person. For MANY years, that was true but what stuck with me about my dad was the fact that he did what was best for the deer herd and he instilled a conservationist mindset in me.
Obviously, that deer mgmt style had to be tweaked when deer numbers soared but the bottom line is to get educated and do what's best for the deer herd.
Last edited by Kounse; 12/02/15 03:46 AM.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: jlbuc10]
#1544550
12/02/15 04:41 AM
12/02/15 04:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,583 Moss Creek
Gotcha1
Bright Eyes
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Bright Eyes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,583
Moss Creek
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Y'all just need to hunt better areas. Either that or I've just become accustomed to mediocrity(averaging 2-3 per hunt, sometimes 12-15). I mainly hunt 3 counties Bibb, Lee, and Macon. I see does and fawns nearly every hunt, and rarely see bucks. Prob 30 does/fawns for every 1 buck seen. I would prefer to see antler restrictions, or a reduction in bucks tags. I honestly don't think deer numbers are low. I think some areas the people are unable to manage themselves JL, you've got a buddy that has a few deer. But don't shoot any little ones! We have a special hanging tree, that's not for deer.
Matt Brock wears knock-off Crocs.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1544643
12/02/15 06:02 AM
12/02/15 06:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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It is to reduce overall numbers and it works very well. You're right. 2 things: 1. I asked recently how much of the state was overpopulated, i.e. "needs" does killed. The unanimous answer was almost 0%. 2. I still value freedom over onerous regulation, because once we give up something, we will likely never see that freedom back again. On our land, we don't shoot does, because we like seeing deer.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: olemossy]
#1544899
12/02/15 09:24 AM
12/02/15 09:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 94
bowhunt55
spike
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spike
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 94
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It's amazing how tough it is this day and age to ask the hunter to educate himself and show some restraint. The rules and regulations are there for safety and guidelines for the overall health of the deer herd. Sure there has to be some rules in place as a baseline, but I hate to see it when some people think that more government mandates are going to fix there problem and they will start shooting more trophy deer if the government will just make more rules. It's not going to happen. If you want to see more deer then lay off of the trigger, lower the pressure, and probably most importantly improve your habitat! If your kid is shooting one a day then don't complain you aren't seeing enough deer because that is the expected end result with that behavior. Also, you can't mandate for the law breakers because they are going to break the law anyway. I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules and some government restrictions, but don't think that's going to fix all of these same problems I here people complaining about on here every day.
Last edited by bowhunt55; 12/02/15 09:42 AM.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: RonBuck]
#1544911
12/02/15 09:31 AM
12/02/15 09:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,783
USA
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Most hunters don't have a clue when it comes to land managment. They must be told what to do . Do you feel the same way about gun rights? Hunting is also a (state) constitutional right. Not a privilege.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: jawbone]
#1544937
12/02/15 09:52 AM
12/02/15 09:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 Thomasville, AL
Hogwild
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
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And, I gotta add......doe harvest seems to favor trying to see who can kill the biggest does. That leaves the young ones. A yearling doe with no matriarch is NOT a good mother and her fawn survival rate will not equal what an older aged does would. Gotta add to that also is the fact that over the course of her life a young doe will eat more food (resources) than an old doe and produce more offspring, which in turn consume resources, than an old doe. We were taught that if your goal is population reduction, which ours was for years, it is much better to shoot a young doe than an old doe. Sorry, but that does not hold water.....they do NOT stay young......unless there is a Fountain of Youth somewhere on the property???
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1544976
12/02/15 10:26 AM
12/02/15 10:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,783 alabama
outdoors1
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,783
alabama
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And, I gotta add......doe harvest seems to favor trying to see who can kill the biggest does. That leaves the young ones. A yearling doe with no matriarch is NOT a good mother and her fawn survival rate will not equal what an older aged does would. If she can out smart you imagine what she can do to predators when she has twins. Got to give her plenty to eat and shoot the predators! You got it right Hogwild!
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1544981
12/02/15 10:32 AM
12/02/15 10:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211 North Alabama
Wiley Coyote
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211
North Alabama
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Killing does without ANY FACTUAL data results in decimation of the deer herd. Parts of Marshall County are prime examples of this stupidity.
I firmly believe that a double gallows should be constructed on the East Lawn of The White House. Politicians who willfully and shamelessly violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America should be swiftly tried and, upon conviction, publicly hanged at sunup the day after conviction. If multiple convicts are to be hanged they can choose with whom to share the gallows or names shall be drawn from the hangman's hat to be hanged 2 at a time.
NRA Life Member
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1544985
12/02/15 10:34 AM
12/02/15 10:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,575 Lee county Bama
RonBuck
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,575
Lee county Bama
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Some of you folks act like putting a harvest restriction, is like adding another branch of gov .
Last edited by RonBuck; 12/02/15 10:38 AM.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1545038
12/02/15 11:20 AM
12/02/15 11:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517 Land of the free because of th...
mike35549
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
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Believe me when I say this. I am not a proponent of the propaganda of if you kill more does you will kill bigger bucks, I have personally never seen it come to fruition. But there has to be a number of does that you can kill each year without actually reducing the size of the heard. There are going to be a certain number of does recruited into the herd each year. If that year less than number die for whatever reason the size of the herd will not be reduced. There won't be as many as there would have been if none died but there is a number that can die each year without a heard reduction. The problem is figuring out how many are being recruited each year, and figuring out from that number how many you can shoot without causing a reduction if you don't want one. If you want an increase maybe you shouldn't shoot any. You also here a lot of people say if you kill a doe you took out 3 deer for next year. That is bull crap I would be willing to bet there is no where in AL that the recruitment rate is 2 fawns for every adult doe. There in part lies the problem a lot of people think every doe is gonna raise 2 fawns next year so you have to kill a bunch to keep population down. When in actuality from the studies I have read if your recruitment rate is .75-1 per adult doe you are doing great. While average is probabbly in the .50-.75 range and some places with a large predator problem may be in the .25-.50 range or lower. I think there are a lot of people that understand recruitment rates. If you are on the low side of those recruitment rates you can not kill very many does or your population will go down and go down in a hurry. And may go down enough to where your recruitment rate falls to near 0 then you have the problem of your herd not being able to recover even if you shoot no does. Just my .02.
What I don't understand is where in the world do all of those 1.5 - 3-5 year old bucks go that we let walk every year. Maybe just become so nocturnal you never see them except during the rut is only conclusion I can come up with.
If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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Re: I have a simple question
[Re: Hogwild]
#1545052
12/02/15 11:24 AM
12/02/15 11:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,635 East Alabama
MorningAir
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,635
East Alabama
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I've said before, there are no regulations in Alabama, other than the 3 buck rule. Nobody can complain about regulations, and government, because we basically don't have any rules. It's near impossible to manage land unless you own a big chunk and don't have to share the costs with 30 other people that just like killing stuff, and most southern hunters like to kill stuff. Habitat is also out the window, for I would say 99.9 percent of Alabama hunters, because you can't just tell the paper company, '' hey, I want to control burn half of my 4000 acres and build some bigger food plots ''. They'll tell you to find somewhere else to hunt. The only way to really increase deer number is to significantly reduce the doe harvest to what it used to be, and control predators. That's the only 2 options for most normal hunters. They could shorten the season, but even I wouldn't want that working a full time job with a family.
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