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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: timbercruiser] #1433092
08/29/15 02:36 AM
08/29/15 02:36 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: timbercruiser
I hate to say it, but the old "call for my dog and I'll try to find your deer" is turning into a deal only lawyers might be able to participate in. I'm afraid you are getting too many rules.


I went out on more than one track last year where once I got there and started trying to track….I realized that there were 4-5+ other people already out there, that I didn’t know, scattered around the woods carrying rifles. I also had folks who thought that if Otis wasn’t on the track like they thought he should be then they started calling him and distracting him. These were some of my first calls and Otis was only a puppy so I just used them as learning experiences.

This year things are going to play out much differently. The main reason for the small handful of rules is so that I can have a quick meeting when I arrive and establish upfront with the hunters the way in which the search will be conducted. It will allow me to take control of the situation and not have a dangerous, unorganized mess unfold. I’m sure many trackers probably don’t even mess with having a waiver signed but I’m a firm believer that chit happens and your better to be prepared for it instead of waiting and trying to deal with it after the fact. smile

Last edited by CNC; 08/29/15 02:39 AM.

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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: rumrunner] #1433093
08/29/15 02:43 AM
08/29/15 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: rumrunner
CNC I collected money the same way. There was up front money and then there was money if the deer was found. The word "found" is the tricky part here. Most hunters interpret found as recovered. That is understandable but so is the other side of that coin. I've tracked deer before and jumped them that weren't fatally shot.. That I could tell. I tracked one for over two miles, jumped him three times until he hit the river. He was killed a week later. To me that was finding your deer. I can't help that the shot wasn't as good as the hunter initially thought. Just another thing to think about. I don't track much anymore because I got burned too many times where people said they had good blood and after driving for two hours I show up to find pen drops. But I've also found deer and seeing the look on a guy's face was priceless.


A lot of the trackers I've talked to say that about half of the deer they track are still alive and many aren't hit good enough to recover. I'm conceding here at first that I will probably be called on some wild goose chases but when Otis is ready then I will definitely be charging to come out. Right now I'm not charging for showing up but if we jump the deer and make contact with him then it's $100.....if we recover him and put him on the tailgate then the charge is $150. I agree that it shouldn't be the trackers fault if the deer is not wounded enough to recover.....the dog still did his job of finding it. Eventually I will charge $100 upfront for coming out and searching and additional fees if the deer is found.

Last edited by CNC; 08/29/15 02:46 AM.

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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433101
08/29/15 03:00 AM
08/29/15 03:00 AM
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ford150man Offline
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Saying no one under 18 allowed, as suggested somewhere above, is a little far fetched in my opinion. What's a fellow supposed to do with his 10 year old son? Tell him to sit in the truck by himself? Sit with him and send the tracker in unfamiliar woods by himself?


If voting made any difference, they wouldn’t let us do it.-Mark Twain
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433104
08/29/15 03:06 AM
08/29/15 03:06 AM
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Posts: 25,468
Tampa
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Beer Belly Offline
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I am not a lawyer, but I would write it more directly. Are there other contracts online that you can copy? That would be your best approach.

CnC’s Tracking Disclaimer

1) Anyone who wants to watch the dog work is free to do so but only one person needs to walk along with and assist the tracker. Any other hunters should remain together in one group at least 50 yards behind the tracker.

1) To avoid distracting the dog or destroying the scent track, only 1 person (assistant) is allowed to be with me and my dog. That person is expected to know your boundaries and the woods. All other persons need to be 50-100 yards behind.

2) There should only be ONE gun taken along that will be carried by either the tracker or the hunter assisting the tracker. The gun should remain unloaded until the tracker gives the go ahead to load. If a live deer is found or bayed, no shots will be fired until the tracker gives the go ahead to shoot.

2) For the safety of my dog I will be the only one carrying a firearm. If the deer is found alive I will give the firearm to the assistant when it is safe to shoot.

3) No other hunter should communicate with the tracking dog other than the handler

3) Please do NOT communicate with the dog while tracking, it will distract him from my signals. Only communicate with me.

4) If a dead deer is found and recovered….no one should run in and grab the deer until the tracker leashes the dog and gives the go ahead. This is to insure that you don’t get bit by the tracking dog.

4) When the deer is located do NOT approach the deer until the dog is leashed. The dog will be very excited and could unintentionally bite someone.

5) The hunter is responsible for knowing and informing the tracker when crossing any property boundaries. No tracking will be conducted across property lines without the permission of the other property owners or hunting club.

5) Please have a map of where the deer was shot, what time it was shot, what direction it ran, and the property lines. The hunter is responsible for knowing and informing the tracker when crossing any property boundaries. No tracking will be conducted across property lines without the permission of the other property owners or hunting club.

6) CNC will not be held responsible for anything.

6) CNC assumes no responsibility for any injuries, lost deer, damaged deer, or another other issues. Know that there is the possibility of the dog biting and damaging the deer in his excitement.

-------------------

I (Print Name:) ___________________________ (Sign name:) _____________________________ (Date:) take complete and sole responsibility in searching for this deer, and hold CNC harmless. CNC is only here to assist me.


--------------
For what it is worth: I still agree with me!
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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433107
08/29/15 03:09 AM
08/29/15 03:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
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Yelp softly Offline
10 point
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: Yelp softly
As I mentioned in a previous post, you need to have a disclaimer regarding property lines. You are not going to know where they are. You may see some lines on trees, but for all you know, they lease both sides. You need to make sure they are responsible for showing you the property boundaries once you're in the field.


#5 deals with property lines.....Do you think I should word it differently or add something to it?


Somehow I completely missed that. I don't know how I interpreted what I read on the first try.


"When there was no fowl, we ate crawdad, when there was no crawdad, we ate sand."

"YOU ATE SAND!" - Raising Arizona
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: ford150man] #1433158
08/29/15 04:17 AM
08/29/15 04:17 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: ford150man
Saying no one under 18 allowed, as suggested somewhere above, is a little far fetched in my opinion. What's a fellow supposed to do with his 10 year old son? Tell him to sit in the truck by himself? Sit with him and send the tracker in unfamiliar woods by himself?


I agree. If I'm only going to take two people along on the track then I don't see any reason why a kid shouldn't be allowed to tag along. That is actually one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. I hope I get the opportunity to find a kid's first deer for them.


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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: Beer Belly] #1433162
08/29/15 04:18 AM
08/29/15 04:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,819
Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: Beer Belly
I am not a lawyer, but I would write it more directly. Are there other contracts online that you can copy? That would be your best approach.

CnC’s Tracking Disclaimer

1) Anyone who wants to watch the dog work is free to do so but only one person needs to walk along with and assist the tracker. Any other hunters should remain together in one group at least 50 yards behind the tracker.

1) To avoid distracting the dog or destroying the scent track, only 1 person (assistant) is allowed to be with me and my dog. That person is expected to know your boundaries and the woods. All other persons need to be 50-100 yards behind.

2) There should only be ONE gun taken along that will be carried by either the tracker or the hunter assisting the tracker. The gun should remain unloaded until the tracker gives the go ahead to load. If a live deer is found or bayed, no shots will be fired until the tracker gives the go ahead to shoot.

2) For the safety of my dog I will be the only one carrying a firearm. If the deer is found alive I will give the firearm to the assistant when it is safe to shoot.

3) No other hunter should communicate with the tracking dog other than the handler

3) Please do NOT communicate with the dog while tracking, it will distract him from my signals. Only communicate with me.

4) If a dead deer is found and recovered….no one should run in and grab the deer until the tracker leashes the dog and gives the go ahead. This is to insure that you don’t get bit by the tracking dog.

4) When the deer is located do NOT approach the deer until the dog is leashed. The dog will be very excited and could unintentionally bite someone.

5) The hunter is responsible for knowing and informing the tracker when crossing any property boundaries. No tracking will be conducted across property lines without the permission of the other property owners or hunting club.

5) Please have a map of where the deer was shot, what time it was shot, what direction it ran, and the property lines. The hunter is responsible for knowing and informing the tracker when crossing any property boundaries. No tracking will be conducted across property lines without the permission of the other property owners or hunting club.

6) CNC will not be held responsible for anything.

6) CNC assumes no responsibility for any injuries, lost deer, damaged deer, or another other issues. Know that there is the possibility of the dog biting and damaging the deer in his excitement.

-------------------

I (Print Name:) ___________________________ (Sign name:) _____________________________ (Date:) take complete and sole responsibility in searching for this deer, and hold CNC harmless. CNC is only here to assist me.




I like the changes you made. Thanks! thumbup


We dont rent pigs
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: Yelp softly] #1433165
08/29/15 04:20 AM
08/29/15 04:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: Yelp softly
Somehow I completely missed that. I don't know how I interpreted what I read on the first try.


10-4.....I thought that might have been the case but wasn't sure. smile


We dont rent pigs
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433222
08/29/15 05:49 AM
08/29/15 05:49 AM
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About to run a training line with Otis. I'd like to get a go-pro camera and tape some of these training runs as well as some of the real tracks. It would be cool to be able to upload a video for you guys of me tracking down a big 'un for another Aldeer member.


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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433309
08/29/15 07:35 AM
08/29/15 07:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,213
Meridianville
DryFire Offline
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Originally Posted By: CNC
I agree. If I'm only going to take two people along on the track then I don't see any reason why a kid shouldn't be allowed to tag along. That is actually one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. I hope I get the opportunity to find a kid's first deer for them.


I'm not trying to bust your balls. I'm actually happy of this service you are trying to perform. But your liability release states the dog may bite and if it does bite, then you may be held financially liable. Throw in a bite on a juvenile and you are really screwed. Remove any reference to a possible dog bite. Emphasize that no one is allowed to approach the downed animal until the dog is under your control. Just don't state the reason why. If someone under 18 accompanies you on a track, then make sure the parent or guardian accepts responsibility in writing for any accidents or injuries that may result.

Maybe I should change my name to "Playing the Devil's Advocate".

Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433325
08/29/15 08:19 AM
08/29/15 08:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,227
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
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I'll take "I'm way overthinking this chitt" for a hunnerd Bob.....


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: DryFire] #1433350
08/29/15 09:07 AM
08/29/15 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: TexasNative
Originally Posted By: CNC
I agree. If I'm only going to take two people along on the track then I don't see any reason why a kid shouldn't be allowed to tag along. That is actually one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. I hope I get the opportunity to find a kid's first deer for them.


I'm not trying to bust your balls. I'm actually happy of this service you are trying to perform. But your liability release states the dog may bite and if it does bite, then you may be held financially liable. Throw in a bite on a juvenile and you are really screwed. Remove any reference to a possible dog bite. Emphasize that no one is allowed to approach the downed animal until the dog is under your control. Just don't state the reason why. If someone under 18 accompanies you on a track, then make sure the parent or guardian accepts responsibility in writing for any accidents or injuries that may result.

Maybe I should change my name to "Playing the Devil's Advocate".


Don't worry about "busting my balls".....I'm looking for constructive criticism from everyone on the matter and I appreciate the input. I will take it into account. Thanks! thumbup

Last edited by CNC; 08/29/15 09:08 AM.

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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: BhamFred] #1433351
08/29/15 09:08 AM
08/29/15 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I'll take "I'm way overthinking this chitt" for a hunnerd Bob.....



I would rather be accused of over thinking things than accused of being unprepared.

Last edited by CNC; 08/29/15 09:09 AM.

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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: BhamFred] #1433412
08/29/15 10:55 AM
08/29/15 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,979
wedowee
daniel white Offline
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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I'll take "I'm way overthinking this chitt" for a hunnerd Bob.....


Hell Yes. Give this man a beer. Holy Chit at the rules. Ask some of the guys on here how I done it. Never accepted a dime from them. But was glad to help. As long as it was close to Wedowee and I was able to go. I could tell in about 30 seconds of talking to them on the phone if I wanted to help them. Your acting like your finding the end of the Rainbow for these people. Dang gone. To each their own I guess.


"You do and it will be the biggest mistake you ever made, you Texas brush popper" John Wayne
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: daniel white] #1433428
08/29/15 11:11 AM
08/29/15 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: daniel white
Hell Yes. Give this man a beer. Holy Chit at the rules. Ask some of the guys on here how I done it. Never accepted a dime from them. But was glad to help. As long as it was close to Wedowee and I was able to go. I could tell in about 30 seconds of talking to them on the phone if I wanted to help them. Your acting like your finding the end of the Rainbow for these people. Dang gone. To each their own I guess.


You also just quit….had your name taken off the list….and told everyone they could go to hell. You run your service however you see fit but I’ll run mine the way I see it.


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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: BhamFred] #1433445
08/29/15 11:27 AM
08/29/15 11:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,552
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I'll take "I'm way overthinking this chitt" for a hunnerd Bob.....


I'm with Paw Paw. I've been on 4 tracks with 2 different dogs/handlers. Nobody signed anything. Only a couple of verbal rules, both wanted no more than one other person up front with the handler . One handler toted his own gun and reserved the right to finish off a wounded deer. It ain't rocket surgery.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433450
08/29/15 11:34 AM
08/29/15 11:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,979
wedowee
daniel white Offline
Booner
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wedowee

Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: daniel white
Hell Yes. Give this man a beer. Holy Chit at the rules. Ask some of the guys on here how I done it. Never accepted a dime from them. But was glad to help. As long as it was close to Wedowee and I was able to go. I could tell in about 30 seconds of talking to them on the phone if I wanted to help them. Your acting like your finding the end of the Rainbow for these people. Dang gone. To each their own I guess.


You also just quit….had your name taken off the list….and told everyone they could go to hell. You run your service however you see fit but I’ll run mine the way I see it.


Yup. And I also said. People who had my number could keep it. I helped people, not ass raped em and tried to make a living. Throw and mow that chit.


"You do and it will be the biggest mistake you ever made, you Texas brush popper" John Wayne
Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433474
08/29/15 12:01 PM
08/29/15 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,819
Awbarn, AL
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I plan on eventually taking 80-100 calls per season. I took Otis on 15-20 tracks last year as an 8 month old puppy to get both of us as much experience as possible in that first season. My goal is to offer a professional service where folks get what they pay for. I plan on being available when you need me and I also plan on showing up prepared with top notch dogs that have been well trained. I’ve spent countless hours training Otis and even took the time to attend out of state tracking seminars with him to seek advice from professional trackers with decades of experience. I appreciate the input from everyone and I look forward to tracking for many of you. We’ll be adding a second dog later this winter and hopefully have her running with Otis some next year. Right now I’m leaning toward either “Sadie” or “Shelby”…….. smile

Last edited by CNC; 08/29/15 12:02 PM.

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Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: daniel white] #1433490
08/29/15 12:20 PM
08/29/15 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 167
Calera al
Youngmorris Offline
3 point
Youngmorris  Offline
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Posts: 167
Calera al
Originally Posted By: daniel white

Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: daniel white
Hell Yes. Give this man a beer. Holy Chit at the rules. Ask some of the guys on here how I done it. Never accepted a dime from them. But was glad to help. As long as it was close to Wedowee and I was able to go. I could tell in about 30 seconds of talking to them on the phone if I wanted to help them. Your acting like your finding the end of the Rainbow for these people. Dang gone. To each their own I guess.


You also just quit….had your name taken off the list….and told everyone they could go to hell. You run your service however you see fit but I’ll run mine the way I see it.


Yup. And I also said. People who had my number could keep it. I helped people, not ass raped em and tried to make a living. Throw and mow that chit.


Yea C'mon

Re: Help with Tracking Disclaimer [Re: CNC] #1433704
08/29/15 03:18 PM
08/29/15 03:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,227
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
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alabama
CNC...I've run tracking dogs for 40 years. All kinds of dogs, some good, some great. All kinds of tracks..daytime, nighttime, rain, day old, two day old, one man, two man, a crowd, take yer pick. We have recovered dozens of deer...and not found a couple of three after LOOOOOOOONG tracks that kept going. I have doubted the dog, cussed the dog, praised the dog. I have found em dead, alive, been charged by TWO wounded found alive bucks, have shot bucks off my dog as they gored em into the ground. Name it.

You're overthinking this thing.....


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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